RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS America (A)

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RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/18/2019 4:30:13 AM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

Dec 16 � 19, 1941

I intended to get the turn summary of the 16-17th turn written up this evening after sending the turn back to Mike, but I had the next turn waiting for me when I got home from work so it's a 2 for 1.

Philippines
I've managed to retreat to Manila to make my stand in pretty good order. Mostly because I've never tried it before, I chose the urban hex over Bataan. A couple of late arriving ART units have appeared at Bataan, but everyone else is at the party in the city. The forts are up to 3 and I have 1677 AV sitting behind them but that number is deceptive as much of that consists of poor exp and combat value troops. I have lots of engineers there but they are only just keeping ahead of the daily bombing damage. Because of the severe losses over the first two days of the war, my fighter strength here is almost gone and I can only offer token resistance in the air. I have just over 50k supplies here. Unless Mike brings 4 or 5 divisions and a bunch of combat engineers to the party, I may be able to hold out until the supply runs out. If I get to the point where I can't make any progress toward building forts because of damage repairs, I'll turn off the fort building to save a little supply that way. I wish I could burn the 100k of fuel sitting here but Mike will probably take possession of most of that soon.

Malaya
So I had my fun over the 14-15th turn at Johore Bahru, punching his overextended armor in the nose and retreating them to Mersing. Mike was able to pour a bunch of ground forces into the hex while I was trying to run for the fortress of Singapore. He deliberate attacked on the 16th but only got a 1-2 result. On the 18th he attacked again and managed to get a 2-1 result. He had added another 3 regiments to the 3 already there, along with lots of combat engineers and a bunch of artillery. One more day and the bulk of my guys would have reached safety. Instead it was a slaughter. 8 units retreated to Singapore and 3 were destroyed, including the entire recombined 11th Indian Div. The butcher's bill:

Allied ground losses:
11477 casualties reported
Squads: 297 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 718 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 87 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 130 (122 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Vehicles lost 106 (106 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 8
Units destroyed 3

So, Singapore is now in a similar situation to Manila. Lvl 3 forts that are building a bit faster here due to a few less planes bombing so far and a few more engineer vehicles, 50k supply and about 21k resources. That should produce another 1500 � 2000 supply before the industry grinds to a halt. I only have 577 AV here, but they are generally better quality than at Manila. My fighter strength is down to 11 Buffaloes but only 5 of them are ready. I have around 30 bombers here along with a dozen remaining torpedo bombers. They have all done some nice damage to transports over these first two weeks of the war. I expect I will get no more than 2 or 4 more days of effective use out of them before remnants are evacuated.

Hawaii
My constant badgering of the 20 or so Japanese subs trying to blockade Pearl Harbor has finally started to pay off. The sunk ships list shows a second IJN sub sunk in this region and third total. Between all the aircraft flying ASW and all the ships on ASW I've likely managed to damage a couple more subs. Honestly, I think the biggest factor is many of Mike's subs running low on torps after constantly shooting at my DD's. He did sadly hit DD Reid with one on the 19th and she immediately went under. The end result is I'm seeing many of the subs move off to the West and several others at least pulled back a hex or two away from Pearl to decrease the effectiveness of my air groups. I should be able to get escorted shipping in and out now without too much worry.

China
Hong Kong still holds out. At any time the next attack could be the last here, but it's still be a week longer than I usually see.

Burma
No sign yet of any Jap ground forces approaching, but he did air drop onto Port Blair and take it last turn. Intel shows the 33rd Division and another Rgt on ships and heading for Bangkok, so I'm moving a few of the Dutch and Brit subs to try to pick some of them off.

I noticed something interesting about the supply levels in China. They are generally increasing by 2-4k/turn. 1K of that is via the Burma Road and the rest generated via local industry. Last turn the supply total in China jumped by 11k and it appears to have come from the supply I dumped into Rangoon. About 2k is being pulled into Mandalay each 2 day turn and 800 into Lashio, both limited by their daily supply cap. But I think the rest moved much farther into China, past Lashio. I guess it's only a 1 time/week draw, but it's way more movement than I expected. I thought I'd have to manually "walk" the supply into China one base at a time. So, I'm going to risk running another supply convoy into Rangoon from Colombo. So far Mike has not bothered any of my shipping near Rangoon with Betties from Bangkok, but that could change at any minute. I have 2 squadrons of fighters to fly CAP at Rangoon as needed. 50K of supply will load up and depart Colombo next turn and I have around 80k more loading at Aden and Abadan bound for Colombo.

DEI
I've had my fun with Force Z here. I've spotted 2 different TF's approaching the area with BB's. I don't want a fair fight or anything close to it, so my surface combatants are splitting up and heading out. PoW and Repulse, along with 6 Brit DD's are rearmed at Soerabaja and will head to Colombo. PoW will get her 19 system damage and her busted up 20mm AA gun repaired there. The Yanks and Dutch, led by Houston and Boise, are heading to Perth where they can sortie to North Oz or the IO as needed, or fairly quickly move to the Coral Sea. All the rest of the Allied shipping has skedaddled out of the region. I will probably send some smaller AK's to try to grab a little more fuel out of Java, but I'm not risking anything more valuable as Mike shows signs of moving into the area in force. He is moving a bit more cautiously after losing his CA let SC TF a few days ago.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Zorch)

Post #: 91

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/18/2019 5:39:42 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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Can't tell whether you still hold Clark Field or how much enemy airpower has already been relocated to Luzon airfields. Nonetheless .....

At this stage of the war it is not feasible to deny the enemy that Manila fuel stockpile. There are however a couple of things you can try to reduce the quantum which is captured.

1. Enemy air blockade will probably not be watertight for a couple of more weeks. Depends a lot on what your opponent does with Clark. Most Japanese players rely on the mini KB to set up the early air blockade in the south, with primary focus on catching fleeing Allied ships trying to escape from Manila to Darwin/Java. By the third week the mini KB has usually retired to replenish sorties and to move on to support new amphibious operations. This gives you a 2 week window of opportunity to run single ship blockade runners shipping supply into Manila. Run them at flank speed (choose only merchantmen that actually cover more ground at flank than at cruise) deliberately to maximise fuel consumption, refuel at Manila and pick up a fuel cargo, then send them out at flank. Make Manila the home port and the supply can come from Tarakan and Balikpapan. With luck you might be able to sneek in some 5-10k of supply and reduce the fuel stockpile by 5-6k.

2. Do the same thing with all your fleet USN subs. They will be able to continue the operation until Manila falls. They won't be able to carry fuel out as cargo but continuous running at flank with refuelling only at Manila will draw down the fuel. They could carry out support troops to reduce the food consumption in Manila. Depending on how many you allocate this exercise might get 500-700 supply per week into Manila and perhaps consume 5k fuel per week.

Alfred

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 92

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/18/2019 7:16:36 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

Good suggestions, thanks Alfred.

Japanese air forces in the PI are focused on bombing Manila and Bataan right now. I did lose Clark last turn, so more enemy aircraft could be operating in the area soon, depending on Mike's timetable. I would sure consider running some supply in and fuel out with single ship AK TF's and risk his attacking them from the air, but he has kept a very effective net of surface ships around the PI. He did the most effective job of catching the "scattering horde" leaving Manila that I've ever seen. Those ships are still in place, especially to the South between Manila and the DEI or Oz. I don't know if any AK supply efforts would make it.

I have considered using my fleet subs to bring in a bit of supply. I know all of them together can slip in a small but not insignificant amount. Most of my fleet boats are on patrol to the north of Luzon and have had some real success. I've probably had 8 or 10 Mk 14 fish actually explode into enemy ships over the first two weeks. I think it's a combination of the large number of subs I have there and a large number of enemy convoys that have passed through the area so far, as there have been plenty that didn't explode as well. I think I want to keep them on station a while longer even though I expect their effectiveness to decrease soon do to losing my Naval Search coverage of that area. I've had to pull my PBY's out to safer bases. As long as I'm not losing subs to enemy attacks I'd rather have those fleet boats attacking in deep water hexes. Even if most of the torps don't explode, the boats are slowly gaining experience so they will be even more effective when the defective torps are corrected.

Maybe I'm being too cautious, but I feel given the disposition of Mike's forces, the gain from a couple thousand extra supply at Manila and reducing the fuel captured there a bit isn't worth losing more ships over or taking the subs off patrol. Perhaps if I had planned a resupply attempt from the start of the war....

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 93

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/18/2019 9:55:50 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

About 2k is being pulled into Mandalay each 2 day turn and 800 into Lashio, both limited by their daily supply cap.

Not 100% sure here, but isn't that 'daily supply' cap in Burma only in effect during the monsoon? That would be mid-May through mid-Oct or Nov. Again not sure of the end date.

Maybe others may chime in on this one.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 94

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 2:11:28 PM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
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I always thought 2-day turns to be nerve wracking, this is not changing my mind

. In the same
vein as Alfred's comments, are you bringing in supply to Singers? Where is the Big E and Lex?

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 95

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 2:34:04 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

About 2k is being pulled into Mandalay each 2 day turn and 800 into Lashio, both limited by their daily supply cap.

Not 100% sure here, but isn't that 'daily supply' cap in Burma only in effect during the monsoon? That would be mid-May through mid-Oct or Nov. Again not sure of the end date.

Maybe others may chime in on this one.

Sorry I don't have any documentation with me to verify this, but I can tell you Mandalay and Lashio have drawn almost exactly what the current base supply cap is for several turns now. My evidence in game is that they are in effect year round.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 96

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 2:43:26 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I always thought 2-day turns to be nerve wracking, this is not changing my mind. In the same
vein as Alfred's comments, are you bringing in supply to Singers? Where is the Big E and Lex?

I don't know about nerve wracking, but all orders are issued with a small to medium size dose of caution.

I like it.

The situation at Singapore is the same as Manila. The area is flooded with enemy surface combat ships and my subs here have been very effective attacking Japanese shipping. I'd rather sink a single cargo ship this early in the war than hold onto Singapore for an additional day.

Lex, Enterprise, and which ever CV arrives 3rd (Sara or Yorktown) are all at Pearl Harbor. Their air groups have assisted in the massive ASW efforts there. One will escort the first, smaller convoy of US troops to the South Pacific in about a week and the other two will escort the much larger troop/supply/fuel convoy that is still loading at SF in about 2-3 weeks.

The last sighting of the KB was 3-4 days ago when they pounded Wake Island before it's capture.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 97

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 2:47:28 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

In emails Mike has expressed several times that I've been very irritating in this game. He fully expected me to pull a Brave Sir Robin defense and literally just run away with everything as fast as I can. Some of my spoiling attacks on land that cause delays, a few successful air attacks on his shipping, and the ambush of his SC TF by Force Z have really surprised him. I know he is operating and approaching his next steps with more caution, which means I've accomplished my first early goal of slowing him down.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 98

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 6:48:23 PM

Zorch

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

In emails Mike has expressed several times that I've been very irritating in this game. He fully expected me to pull a Brave Sir Robin defense and literally just run away with everything as fast as I can. Some of my spoiling attacks on land that cause delays, a few successful air attacks on his shipping, and the ambush of his SC TF by Force Z have really surprised him. I know he is operating and approaching his next steps with more caution, which means I've accomplished my first early goal of slowing him down.

And now you can switch to the Brave Sir Robin strategy and really confound Mike.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 99

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 7:15:21 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

In emails Mike has expressed several times that I've been very irritating in this game. He fully expected me to pull a Brave Sir Robin defense and literally just run away with everything as fast as I can. Some of my spoiling attacks on land that cause delays, a few successful air attacks on his shipping, and the ambush of his SC TF by Force Z have really surprised him. I know he is operating and approaching his next steps with more caution, which means I've accomplished my first early goal of slowing him down.

And now you can switch to the Brave Sir Robin strategy and really confound Mike.

In essence, that's what I'm doing and what my plan was all along. I'm mostly salvaging anything I can from the doomed places and looking for good opportunities to counter punch. I got a few punches in, and Mike has so far as well. I see my chances to surprise him again in the SRA diminishing as he brings in CV cover and heavy BB presence to discourage me from getting frisky. I'm not trying to pull off a "Fortress Palembang" or "Fortress Java" but I'm also not gonna just let him roll into town in Strat mode and not even have to pause to attack and capture a base.

What I hope I've managed is to get him to wait just a little bit longer for more protection at each phase of his timetable.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Zorch)

Post #: 100

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 8:12:28 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

In essence, that's what I'm doing and what my plan was all along. I'm mostly salvaging anything I can from the doomed places and looking for good opportunities to counter punch. I got a few punches in, and Mike has so far as well. I see my chances to surprise him again in the SRA diminishing as he brings in CV cover and heavy BB presence to discourage me from getting frisky. I'm not trying to pull off a "Fortress Palembang" or "Fortress Java" but I'm also not gonna just let him roll into town in Strat mode and not even have to pause to attack and capture a base. What I hope I've managed is to get him to wait just a little bit longer for more protection at each phase of his timetable.

What's this? You work as a scheduler for an airline?!

Attachment (1)

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 101

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 8:29:46 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
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From: Graham, NC, USA
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_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 102

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/19/2019 11:21:22 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica
I'm mostly salvaging anything I can from the doomed places and looking for good opportunities to counter punch. I got a few punches in, and Mike has so far as well. I see my chances to surprise him again in the SRA diminishing as he brings in CV cover and heavy BB presence to discourage me from getting frisky. I'm not trying to pull off a "Fortress Palembang" or "Fortress Java" but I'm also not gonna just let him roll into town in Strat mode and not even have to pause to attack and capture a base. What I hope I've managed is to get him to wait just a little bit longer for more protection at each phase of his timetable.

In my current game v. Acepylut (May '42), he has applied a similar approach. It took me until May to finally clear a concerted defense on Java (Batavia). He strung me out there by consolidating his defense in that hex. I didn't want to bombard too much, lest I wreck some fine strategic assets there too.

It's pushed my overall timetable back several weeks. Now that the amphibious bonus is gone, that will further slow any more amphibious invasions and make them more deliberate.

But his resistance with the Allied fleet cost him a more substantial butcher's bill than your game. And his submarine forces (mostly immolated at Manila on turn one) have been less effective than your intact group as well.

_____________________________

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Post #: 103

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 1:30:32 AM

Aksully

Posts: 97
Joined: 2/16/2016
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I'm just finding this thread and look forward to learning how best to fight the Allies. So I'm a few months behind but I'll ask the questions from this post (25).

First is this a viable strategy pulling back Chinese forces from China back into India? Was this an en mass or just selective unit pullback?

Second, I hadn't thought about pulling out Chinese Air out of theater but I do see the logic.

Third, Is putting the bulk of PI forces into Manila vs Bataan the best option to hold off the eventual conquest? And if so are you reinforcing Clark Field to bleed the Japan more?

Finally, will you be sharing your production and R&D strategy during the game? Really enjoy when guys like you two take on a huge project like this...Thanks for doing so!

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 104

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 2:57:34 PM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
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From: Phenix City, Alabama
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I would suggest sending your fleet subs back to Manila when you decide to, to use up the fuel stocks there a little and grab mines. Sowing them all over may pay benefits long after you have left them. You will still have some MK-14s onboard to continue patrolling after.

(in reply to Aksully)

Post #: 105

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 3:11:28 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
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From: Graham, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

I would suggest sending your fleet subs back to Manila when you decide to, to use up the fuel stocks there a little and grab mines. Sowing them all over may pay benefits long after you have left them. You will still have some MK-14s onboard to continue patrolling after.

I like that one, Bif! My AS ships are long gone for safer waters so I can't replenish torpedoes at Manila, but I'll check the port size requirement for mines, and at least top off the sub's fuel tanks.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Bif1961)

Post #: 106

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 3:45:31 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
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Some good questions, Aksully. I'll reply in red below.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

I'm just finding this thread and look forward to learning how best to fight the Allies. So I'm a few months behind but I'll ask the questions from this post (25).

First is this a viable strategy pulling back Chinese forces from China back into India? Was this an en mass or just selective unit pullback?
Most games play with a house rule that restricted command LCU's must pay PP to change to an unrestricted command before crossing national borders. Many LCU's are "permanent restricted" and are not allowed to change command HQ at all. The vast bulk of the Chinese ground forces are perm restricted, so by our house rule will not be allowed to leave China. There are around 8 or 10 LCU's that can have their HQ changed to an unrestricted command. Of these, all but 1 that withdraws much earlier than the others will make the long march to India. There they will use the extensive supply available to fill out to their max TOE and won't be eating up the much more limited supply available inside China. These handful of LCU's are mostly at a small fraction of their potential and won't really be missed much early on in China, but they can grow to be a significant force to help with recapturing Burma later on.

Second, I hadn't thought about pulling out Chinese Air out of theater but I do see the logic.
Same as above for the Chinese air forces. They have almost no impact early on in their very weak starting state. You have to pay PP to reassign them to an unrestricted command and then fly them out to a base in India that will become a training hub. There, you can rest them, then constantly train them and fill out the few replacement planes you get while again not consuming the limited and valuable supply available in China.

Third, Is putting the bulk of PI forces into Manila vs Bataan the best option to hold off the eventual conquest? And if so are you reinforcing Clark Field to bleed the Japan more?
I don't know if Manila vs Bataan is a better option or not. There is the significant defensive bonus for the Urban Manila hex, but there are static defenses already at Bataan and a few reinforcements appear there. I've just never tried the Manila defense option before so am going that way this game. I didn't push any reinforcements into Clark because a few can't really do much as the full weight of the Japanese ground forces comes to bear. I chose the option of consolidating my forces in Manila. It won't hold. The defense of the PI and Singapore almost never hold against a human opponent.
Japan can take them when they want to take them by applying enough forces. The objective for the Allies is to not make it easy and force them to take time and shipping to bring enough forces to the party to capture these places.

Finally, will you be sharing your production and R&D strategy during the game? Really enjoy when guys like you two take on a huge project like this...Thanks for doing so!
I saw the other thread you started to ask about Production and R&D for the Allies. It was unfortunate that you got some of the reaction that you did.

Essentially, there is no R&D for the Allied side in the game. There are some factories on the map, but the bulk of the forces the Allies get come in from "off map". The factories that are present on the map, as well as industry, resources, oil, and refineries, can't be changed by the Allied player, other than turning some of the industry/refinery on or off. You can also manage repairs of any that are damaged but it eats up a lot of supply. Be careful to not accidentally repair a bunch of damaged industry points in China and "lose" thousands of supply. Ask me how I know.

For the bulk of your on map industry, in India, Australia, and the US, turn on everything and let it crank out stuff for you. India and Oz both need fuel shipped in to keep the HI running. This is in addition to the fuel you send to support your operations. Also, the Industry in SE Oz needs Resources shipped in to keep things running. Some can be found in Tasmania, Noumea, etc. There is a bunch generated in North Australia that collects at Port Headland, but this is either captured early on or made very dangerous for your shipping early on as the Japanese capture bases in the DEI.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Aksully)

Post #: 107

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 3:50:05 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica
I'm mostly salvaging anything I can from the doomed places and looking for good opportunities to counter punch. I got a few punches in, and Mike has so far as well. I see my chances to surprise him again in the SRA diminishing as he brings in CV cover and heavy BB presence to discourage me from getting frisky. I'm not trying to pull off a "Fortress Palembang" or "Fortress Java" but I'm also not gonna just let him roll into town in Strat mode and not even have to pause to attack and capture a base. What I hope I've managed is to get him to wait just a little bit longer for more protection at each phase of his timetable.

In my current game v. Acepylut (May '42), he has applied a similar approach. It took me until May to finally clear a concerted defense on Java (Batavia). He strung me out there by consolidating his defense in that hex. I didn't want to bombard too much, lest I wreck some fine strategic assets there too.

It's pushed my overall timetable back several weeks. Now that the amphibious bonus is gone, that will further slow any more amphibious invasions and make them more deliberate.

But his resistance with the Allied fleet cost him a more substantial butcher's bill than your game. And his submarine forces (mostly immolated at Manila on turn one) have been less effective than your intact group as well.

Hey CB! On Java, I'm going to make my big defensive stand at Soerabaja. I have enough defending Batavia to meet garrison requirements and to make Mike earn it, but everything else that I can is at Soerabaja. I wouldn't mind if a bunch of the industry there gets trashed during it's capture.

Also, since supply is generated from industry on Java I'm at 70k+ and growing for my siege stockpile at Soerabaja.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 108

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 8:36:46 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

About 2k is being pulled into Mandalay each 2 day turn and 800 into Lashio, both limited by their daily supply cap.

Not 100% sure here, but isn't that 'daily supply' cap in Burma only in effect during the monsoon? That would be mid-May through mid-Oct or Nov. Again not sure of the end date.

Maybe others may chime in on this one.

Sorry I don't have any documentation with me to verify this, but I can tell you Mandalay and Lashio have drawn almost exactly what the current base supply cap is for several turns now. My evidence in game is that they are in effect year round.

That may be, but I remember when your opponent had taken the region while playing Ted, he indicated having some problems getting supply out that way. When I got in there just before mid-May in my game I tried turning up the supply 'spinners', and wallah drew tons of supply. Try it see if it works.

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Post #: 109

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 8:40:55 PM

USSAmerica

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

About 2k is being pulled into Mandalay each 2 day turn and 800 into Lashio, both limited by their daily supply cap.

Not 100% sure here, but isn't that 'daily supply' cap in Burma only in effect during the monsoon? That would be mid-May through mid-Oct or Nov. Again not sure of the end date.

Maybe others may chime in on this one.

Sorry I don't have any documentation with me to verify this, but I can tell you Mandalay and Lashio have drawn almost exactly what the current base supply cap is for several turns now. My evidence in game is that they are in effect year round.

That may be, but I remember when your opponent had taken the region while playing Ted, he indicated having some problems getting supply out that way. When I got in there just before mid-May in my game I tried turning up the supply 'spinners', and wallah drew tons of supply. Try it see if it works.

Good thought, but both the supply spinners at Mandalay and Lashio are cranked up to even get them to draw any supply. Without that, they already have more than plenty.

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 110

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 8:41:26 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

In emails Mike has expressed several times that I've been very irritating in this game. He fully expected me to pull a Brave Sir Robin defense and literally just run away with everything as fast as I can. Some of my spoiling attacks on land that cause delays, a few successful air attacks on his shipping, and the ambush of his SC TF by Force Z have really surprised him. I know he is operating and approaching his next steps with more caution, which means I've accomplished my first early goal of slowing him down.

And now you can switch to the Brave Sir Robin strategy and really confound Mike.

In essence, that's what I'm doing and what my plan was all along. I'm mostly salvaging anything I can from the doomed places and looking for good opportunities to counter punch. I got a few punches in, and Mike has so far as well. I see my chances to surprise him again in the SRA diminishing as he brings in CV cover and heavy BB presence to discourage me from getting frisky. I'm not trying to pull off a "Fortress Palembang" or "Fortress Java" but I'm also not gonna just let him roll into town in Strat mode and not even have to pause to attack and capture a base. What I hope I've managed is to get him to wait just a little bit longer for more protection at each phase of his timetable.

To me, a very sound and reasonable approach. Not that that means anything.

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Post #: 111

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 8:59:31 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

Some good questions, Aksully. I'll reply in red below.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

I'm just finding this thread and look forward to learning how best to fight the Allies. So I'm a few months behind but I'll ask the questions from this post (25).

First is this a viable strategy pulling back Chinese forces from China back into India? Was this an en mass or just selective unit pullback?
Most games play with a house rule that restricted command LCU's must pay PP to change to an unrestricted command before crossing national borders. Many LCU's are "permanent restricted" and are not allowed to change command HQ at all. The vast bulk of the Chinese ground forces are perm restricted, so by our house rule will not be allowed to leave China. There are around 8 or 10 LCU's that can have their HQ changed to an unrestricted command. Of these, all but 1 that withdraws much earlier than the others will make the long march to India. There they will use the extensive supply available to fill out to their max TOE and won't be eating up the much more limited supply available inside China. These handful of LCU's are mostly at a small fraction of their potential and won't really be missed much early on in China, but they can grow to be a significant force to help with recapturing Burma later on.

Second, I hadn't thought about pulling out Chinese Air out of theater but I do see the logic.
Same as above for the Chinese air forces. They have almost no impact early on in their very weak starting state. You have to pay PP to reassign them to an unrestricted command and then fly them out to a base in India that will become a training hub. There, you can rest them, then constantly train them and fill out the few replacement planes you get while again not consuming the limited and valuable supply available in China.

Third, Is putting the bulk of PI forces into Manila vs Bataan the best option to hold off the eventual conquest? And if so are you reinforcing Clark Field to bleed the Japan more?
I don't know if Manila vs Bataan is a better option or not. There is the significant defensive bonus for the Urban Manila hex, but there are static defenses already at Bataan and a few reinforcements appear there. I've just never tried the Manila defense option before so am going that way this game. I didn't push any reinforcements into Clark because a few can't really do much as the full weight of the Japanese ground forces comes to bear. I chose the option of consolidating my forces in Manila. It won't hold. The defense of the PI and Singapore almost never hold against a human opponent.
Japan can take them when they want to take them by applying enough forces. The objective for the Allies is to not make it easy and force them to take time and shipping to bring enough forces to the party to capture these places.

Finally, will you be sharing your production and R&D strategy during the game? Really enjoy when guys like you two take on a huge project like this...Thanks for doing so!
I saw the other thread you started to ask about Production and R&D for the Allies. It was unfortunate that you got some of the reaction that you did.

Essentially, there is no R&D for the Allied side in the game. There are some factories on the map, but the bulk of the forces the Allies get come in from "off map". The factories that are present on the map, as well as industry, resources, oil, and refineries, can't be changed by the Allied player, other than turning some of the industry/refinery on or off. You can also manage repairs of any that are damaged but it eats up a lot of supply. Be careful to not accidentally repair a bunch of damaged industry points in China and "lose" thousands of supply. Ask me how I know.

For the bulk of your on map industry, in India, Australia, and the US, turn on everything and let it crank out stuff for you. India and Oz both need fuel shipped in to keep the HI running. This is in addition to the fuel you send to support your operations. Also, the Industry in SE Oz needs Resources shipped in to keep things running. Some can be found in Tasmania, Noumea, etc. There is a bunch generated in North Australia that collects at Port Headland, but this is either captured early on or made very dangerous for your shipping early on as the Japanese capture bases in the DEI.

Nice response Mike. Only thing I'd like to add is with reference to number three.

As said, no matter what, you're not going to hold the PI. As to defending in Manila, Bataan, or Clark, there're a number of choices and differences. To start with Bataan and Manila are x2 defensive territory while Clark is x3. OTOH you get some supply in Manila as it has a LI (light industry, explained for our newbie) of 100. Now Bataan has (on a standard map) all the CD (coastal defense) guns and these protect the approaches to all three bases. In addition, as said you get some reinforcements here as well. So in essence no matter where you defend here its more a matter of preference.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 6/20/2019 9:00:20 PM >

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Post #: 112

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 9:09:32 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

About 2k is being pulled into Mandalay each 2 day turn and 800 into Lashio, both limited by their daily supply cap.

Not 100% sure here, but isn't that 'daily supply' cap in Burma only in effect during the monsoon? That would be mid-May through mid-Oct or Nov. Again not sure of the end date.

Maybe others may chime in on this one.

Sorry I don't have any documentation with me to verify this, but I can tell you Mandalay and Lashio have drawn almost exactly what the current base supply cap is for several turns now. My evidence in game is that they are in effect year round.

That may be, but I remember when your opponent had taken the region while playing Ted, he indicated having some problems getting supply out that way. When I got in there just before mid-May in my game I tried turning up the supply 'spinners', and wallah drew tons of supply. Try it see if it works.

Good thought, but both the supply spinners at Mandalay and Lashio are cranked up to even get them to draw any supply. Without that, they already have more than plenty.

OK, but I went even further. I cranked the whole line on/off to get it as far inland as I could. Pushed as much as possible into Rangoon. Then, Prome, Magwe, Mandalay.... 'Til I had over 30K at each. As Japan I felt that would hold me until the monsoon ran out. Just sayin'.

For you obviously the end result is to get it into China. From what I've read in these pages over the years it seems the only way to keep supply in China early on. Even then you'll have to be stingy. I imagine you're already aware of this though.

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Post #: 113

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 9:11:55 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

So in essence no matter where you defend here its more a matter of preference.

He who defends everything, defends nothing (Fred the Great).

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Post #: 114

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 9:13:33 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica
I'm mostly salvaging anything I can from the doomed places and looking for good opportunities to counter punch. I got a few punches in, and Mike has so far as well. I see my chances to surprise him again in the SRA diminishing as he brings in CV cover and heavy BB presence to discourage me from getting frisky. I'm not trying to pull off a "Fortress Palembang" or "Fortress Java" but I'm also not gonna just let him roll into town in Strat mode and not even have to pause to attack and capture a base. What I hope I've managed is to get him to wait just a little bit longer for more protection at each phase of his timetable.

In my current game v. Acepylut (May '42), he has applied a similar approach. It took me until May to finally clear a concerted defense on Java (Batavia). He strung me out there by consolidating his defense in that hex. I didn't want to bombard too much, lest I wreck some fine strategic assets there too.

It's pushed my overall timetable back several weeks. Now that the amphibious bonus is gone, that will further slow any more amphibious invasions and make them more deliberate.

But his resistance with the Allied fleet cost him a more substantial butcher's bill than your game. And his submarine forces (mostly immolated at Manila on turn one) have been less effective than your intact group as well.

Hey CB! On Java, I'm going to make my big defensive stand at Soerabaja. I have enough defending Batavia to meet garrison requirements and to make Mike earn it, but everything else that I can is at Soerabaja. I wouldn't mind if a bunch of the industry there gets trashed during it's capture. Also, since supply is generated from industry on Java I'm at 70k+ and growing for my siege stockpile at Soerabaja.

Maybe the best choice, but as an alternative, does anyone think that mountain base SW (can't recall its name) of Batavia is worth a defensive effort. As a last stand I mean.

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Post #: 115

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 9:16:17 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

So in essence no matter where you defend here its more a matter of preference.

He who defends everything, defends nothing (Fred the Great).

OK, OK, now were're gettin' philosophical.

And much too deep for my puny mind.

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Post #: 116

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 9:46:56 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aksully

So in essence no matter where you defend here its more a matter of preference.

He who defends everything, defends nothing (Fred the Great).

OK, OK, now were're gettin' philosophical.

And much too deep for my puny mind.

By any chance are you related to Baldrick?

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Post #: 117

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 10:48:44 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Maybe the best choice, but as an alternative, does anyone think that mountain base SW (can't recall its name) of Batavia is worth a defensive effort. As a last stand I mean.

I don't think so. One of the advantages of Batavia / Soerbaja is to hold onto LI/HI in the hexes. I think both Soerbaja and Batavia also have refineries and, in stock, produce supply from the refineries too. This organic supply kept Allied dog opposition strong into May 1942. Lastly, attacks to displace troops from these hexes may damage some underlying industry, a bonus for the Allies.

The hex you cite has good terrain, but little else to merit its last stand defense.

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Post #: 118

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/20/2019 11:37:17 PM

rustysi

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OK, thanks. Makes sense, just thought it'd be difficult to dislodge from that terrain. Surabaya is clear terrain. I get the possible damage to infrastructure, but sometimes delay is more important.

BTW no refineries in Batavia.

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Post #: 119

RE: THREAD War: Mike & Mike - Mike Solli (J) vs. USS Am... - 6/21/2019 3:33:32 AM

USSAmerica

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I think you're referring to Bandoeng, Paul. 2 hexes SE of Batavia in mountain terrain. It does have 20 resources and 20 LI, but nothing else that Japan urgently wants or needs. As a defender there, I'd be afraid of being surrounded, occupied by one decent enemy LCU so I can't leave the hex, and then just starved out or forced to become the attacker in mountain terrain.

CB's point about possible industry damage at capture plays a very big part as well. Batavia might be better defensive terrain than Soerabaja, but more resources and fuel collect at the larger port of Soerabaja. Once cut off, there is a chance to keep the industry producing a bit more supply for longer than Batavia. Probably a toss up between the two, just pick one and load it up.

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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