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RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 5:19:29 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Accelerate the carriers, probably turn off the super heavy battleships. They are very difficult to use. If you want, you can build the Yamato in 44 when ship points free up a bit.



To each their own.


Absolutely!

Two types of shipyard production, so turning off those xak will only help with escort carriers. Turning off subs will help with warships thou, and most people shut off the SST, especially those first 10.




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Post #: 151
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 5:27:11 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
most people shut off the SST, especially those first 10.


Why the first 10 SSTs? I've decided to build 8, and they're the first 8. What am I missing?

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Post #: 152
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 5:30:56 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
most people shut off the SST, especially those first 10.


Why the first 10 SSTs? I've decided to build 8, and they're the first 8. What am I missing?


I personally like them, and do build all SST for Japan. But small capacity versus cost and very limited range makes them questionable and most player would rather accelerate something else with guns or flight decks.

8 or 10 I guess depends upon mod/scenario..but the first class is rather poor.

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Post #: 153
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 5:40:18 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Two types of shipyard production


Of course. I inadvertently conflated these two in my post, so thanks for the clarification for the new readers.

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Post #: 154
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 5:52:23 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
most people shut off the SST, especially those first 10.


Why the first 10 SSTs? I've decided to build 8, and they're the first 8. What am I missing?


I personally like them, and do build all SST for Japan. But small capacity versus cost and very limited range makes them questionable and most player would rather accelerate something else with guns or flight decks.

8 or 10 I guess depends upon mod/scenario..but the first class is rather poor.



Thanks, Lowpe. I'll take a close look at them and pick some better ones to build.

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Post #: 155
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 5:55:44 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Even though they have a rediculously small cargo hold they can still move a little and I was planning on using whatever SST's I get to help out with the logistics until the late war period when the SST's are the only vessel that will get supplies out to the units on the cutoff islands. And there aren't really that many of them. I was thinking about cutting off the shipbuilding after about mid-44 to save the RES.

This image is one I stold from my AI-Jap opponent to spy on how things are going and it appears that the AI is going to try to build all their SST's too. For whatever that's worth.




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Post #: 156
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 9:22:08 PM   
jdsrae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
My answers to the above questions led me to using the Akasi class as my AKE of choice. It can rearm all but Nagato and Yamato classes in forward areas.

Lima class AKEs can rearm everything everywhere


Are you sure the Lima can rearm Yamato?
I will check, but when I prepared that table I couldn’t find a single AKE that has capacity > Yamato main gun.
Lima can rearm Nagato which the Akasi can’t, but that’s only 2 ships.
So if people do convert a few Lima AKE they don’t need many and they should be moved around the map to where they are using the Nagatos.


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Post #: 157
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 9:32:15 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
My answers to the above questions led me to using the Akasi class as my AKE of choice. It can rearm all but Nagato and Yamato classes in forward areas.

Lima class AKEs can rearm everything everywhere


Are you sure the Lima can rearm Yamato?
I will check, but when I prepared that table I couldn’t find a single AKE that has capacity > Yamato main gun.
Lima can rearm Nagato which the Akasi can’t, but that’s only 2 ships.
So if people do convert a few Lima AKE they don’t need many and they should be moved around the map to where they are using the Nagatos.


This was discussed in a thread not long ago and (IIRC) the conclusion was that the Lima's could rearm the Yamato in DBB scenarios or something along that line, because in stock the capacity of the Lima AE is not enough to reach the official ream level of the Yamato Class BBs. As in so many things for this game: "It depends ..."


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Post #: 158
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 9:52:41 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
most people shut off the SST, especially those first 10.


Why the first 10 SSTs? I've decided to build 8, and they're the first 8. What am I missing?


I personally like them, and do build all SST for Japan. But small capacity versus cost and very limited range makes them questionable and most player would rather accelerate something else with guns or flight decks.

8 or 10 I guess depends upon mod/scenario..but the first class is rather poor.



Thanks, Lowpe. I'll take a close look at them and pick some better ones to build.

You want to build 10 of these?




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 159
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 10:05:09 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
most people shut off the SST, especially those first 10.


Why the first 10 SSTs? I've decided to build 8, and they're the first 8. What am I missing?


I personally like them, and do build all SST for Japan. But small capacity versus cost and very limited range makes them questionable and most player would rather accelerate something else with guns or flight decks.

8 or 10 I guess depends upon mod/scenario..but the first class is rather poor.



Thanks, Lowpe. I'll take a close look at them and pick some better ones to build.


IIRC there's one class that arrives as SST that can immediately convert to regular SS but get Kaitien instead of torps. The rest of the SST cant convert and are semi unarmed

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Post #: 160
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/20/2019 10:31:36 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
This was discussed in a thread not long ago and (IIRC) the conclusion was that the Lima's could rearm the Yamato in DBB scenarios or something along that line, because in stock the capacity of the Lima AE is not enough to reach the official ream level of the Yamato Class BBs. As in so many things for this game: "It depends ..."

Yes, in stock scenarios Limas can rearm Yamatos from dot bases. DBB and other mods dunno, I don't play those

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Post #: 161
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/21/2019 12:12:03 AM   
jdsrae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
This was discussed in a thread not long ago and (IIRC) the conclusion was that the Lima's could rearm the Yamato in DBB scenarios or something along that line, because in stock the capacity of the Lima AE is not enough to reach the official ream level of the Yamato Class BBs. As in so many things for this game: "It depends ..."

Yes, in stock scenarios Limas can rearm Yamatos from dot bases. DBB and other mods dunno, I don't play those


Yamato class has a BFG, and not the Roald Dahl kind

Scenario 1 so mods may vary, but here's my working of IJN ships, main weapons and tenders that can rearm them.
Happy for people to point out any errors, but I don't see an AKE that can rearm Yamato.
Note that there are a few starting AG that can convert to AKE. I plan on doing them to provide a few AKE that can rearm Nagato in forward areas.
That was part of the reason why I don't see a need to convert any Lima to AKE.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 6/21/2019 10:14:43 AM >

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Post #: 162
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/21/2019 2:04:58 AM   
BillBrown


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Status: offline 		jdsrae, even though I have not commented directly, I am looking at your charts and analyzing the information. Thank you

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Post #: 163
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/21/2019 9:20:17 AM   
tarkalak

 

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Status: offline 		There was a tread about rearming the Yamato using several AKEs together. That contradicts the manual but apparently worked.

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Post #: 164
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/21/2019 10:13:46 AM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

There was a tread about rearming the Yamato using several AKEs together. That contradicts the manual but apparently worked.


I have rearmed Yamato and Musashi at Etorofu, a level 3 port, in my game with Ted. There were 2 Lima class AKEs there as well as a Naval HQ in range and some naval support in the hex. I was surprised as hell, but it happened. Stock scenario 1.

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Post #: 165
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/21/2019 10:18:44 AM   
jdsrae


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Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		Very interesting. I’m going to have to try it with 3 x Akasi AKE to see if it does the same thing when Yamato arrives!
Only 53 days to go...


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Post #: 166
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/21/2019 1:33:27 PM   
Korvar


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Status: offline 		Bill,

Has your opponent yet expressed any trepidation about what is going on over here? It's mostly us trying to wrap our heads around the production system, but still...



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Post #: 167
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/21/2019 2:19:35 PM   
tarkalak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

Bill,

Has your opponent yet expressed any trepidation about what is going on over here? It's mostly us trying to wrap our heads around the production system, but still...




He had probably read 2-3 Japanese AARs and knows that the first 50 pages are:
1. Pearl Harbor! BANZAI !!! -- one post
and
2. Discussion about just in time manufacturing.

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Post #: 168
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 1:32:48 AM   
BBfanboy


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Status: offline 		jdsrae - you remember the thread much better than I did. The stuff I remembered about being mod/scenario dependent may have been that the compounding or AKE values to rearm ships that the manual says they shouldn't could be a bug that worked into one of the newer mods or scenarios. So maybe it isn't showing up for some people playing scenarios based on the last official patch (11.24). Anyway, thanks for your work on the charts and sorting out issues like this.
I'll go back to my hiding spot now ...






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Post #: 169
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 3:38:12 AM   
jdsrae


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Status: offline 		BB, I have no memory of the other recent post on AKEs...
But I’m definitely going to check if AKEs can stack to rearm Yamato.
Actually, I’ll test it in the next couple of turns to see if 2x Akasi AKE can rearm a Nagato

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Post #: 170
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 10:07:44 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
Actually, I’ll test it in the next couple of turns to see if 2x Akasi AKE can rearm a Nagato

They can't. It's individual AKE capacity that matters. Multiple AKEs are nice to have since BBs eat up a lot of supply and action points when rearming

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Post #: 171
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 11:32:26 AM   
Mike Solli


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Status: offline 		I built 6 Lima AKEs in Ted's game. In Mike's game, it's 20. I'm really tired of moving them around. They never seem to be where I need them when I need them.

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Post #: 172
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 12:53:21 PM   
BillBrown


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Status: offline 		So far I have built 12 Aden AKE, 4 Akasi AKE and 5 Lima AKE. I will probably build more Akasi AKEs in the next few turns.
As Allies I build all of the AE and AKEs I can.

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Post #: 173
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 12:54:29 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
Actually, I’ll test it in the next couple of turns to see if 2x Akasi AKE can rearm a Nagato

They can't. It's individual AKE capacity that matters. Multiple AKEs are nice to have since BBs eat up a lot of supply and action points when rearming

You missed the point of the discussion in a previous thread. The book says an individual AKE capacity is used to determine whether rearm level is reached, and cannot be combined with port capacity. But some players HAVE been able to rearm the Yamato class BBs with AKEs of lower capacity than the book rearm level says.

The explanation the thread settled on is that one of the updates or mods changed something to allow that to happen. Some think it is a bug, compounding of AKE capacities to exceed the rearm level in their total. Some think there was a deliberate exception built into the code to allow the largest Japanese AKE to rearm the Yamato. Somehow it is happening, but not in every scenario or game patch. Thus players are experimenting to find out if it can be done in their game.

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Post #: 174
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 1:05:54 PM   
BillBrown


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Status: offline 		I am pretty sure BBfanboy is right. An item in one of the patches corrected a bug and introduced another and it never got fixed.
I think I have used Harriman AKEs to rearm Colorado Class BBs and it should not work.

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Post #: 175
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 1:34:07 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
Actually, I’ll test it in the next couple of turns to see if 2x Akasi AKE can rearm a Nagato

They can't. It's individual AKE capacity that matters. Multiple AKEs are nice to have since BBs eat up a lot of supply and action points when rearming

You missed the point of the discussion in a previous thread. The book says an individual AKE capacity is used to determine whether rearm level is reached, and cannot be combined with port capacity. But some players HAVE been able to rearm the Yamato class BBs with AKEs of lower capacity than the book rearm level says.

The explanation the thread settled on is that one of the updates or mods changed something to allow that to happen. Some think it is a bug, compounding of AKE capacities to exceed the rearm level in their total. Some think there was a deliberate exception built into the code to allow the largest Japanese AKE to rearm the Yamato. Somehow it is happening, but not in every scenario or game patch. Thus players are experimenting to find out if it can be done in their game.


I think it is a bug, and personally don't exploit it to get a more historical use out of the Yamato and her sister. Plus, you generally are better off using her relatively close to big ports anyhow for a variety of reasons.

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Post #: 176
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 1:59:56 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
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Status: offline 		... especially to not burn too much fuel.
Combination of the above and the following means I won’t test AKE mechanics any time soon and will just proceed as per the manual:
1. It’s saturday night, nearly Sunday morning and I’ve had a few sparkling hops and barley waters
2. I wasn’t planning on using the big BBs too far from large ports anyway
3. It’s that time of the month in game (April fools day 42, I’ve just lost the amphib bonus) when I do an around the grounds on fuel/oil/resource/supply levels and pilot training, so I have some mouse clicks to do
Enjoy your Saturday northerners!

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Post #: 177
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/22/2019 5:43:38 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
Actually, I’ll test it in the next couple of turns to see if 2x Akasi AKE can rearm a Nagato

They can't. It's individual AKE capacity that matters. Multiple AKEs are nice to have since BBs eat up a lot of supply and action points when rearming

You missed the point of the discussion in a previous thread. The book says an individual AKE capacity is used to determine whether rearm level is reached, and cannot be combined with port capacity. But some players HAVE been able to rearm the Yamato class BBs with AKEs of lower capacity than the book rearm level says.

"Some players"? I think it's not me who missed something. It was me in that previous thread too i'm using Lima AKEs as Yamato ammo depots since forever

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Post #: 178
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/24/2019 12:56:51 AM   
BillBrown


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Status: offline 		My esteemed opponent has emailed me and it will be tomorrow before he gets the turn back to me. First Allied turn is brutal.

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Post #: 179
RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/25/2019 1:59:49 AM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
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Status: offline 		Dec 8, 1941

Not a lot happened this turn. It would seem weather kept a lot of aircraft from flying.

At Pearl Harbor I had a second strike set, but only the A6M2 sweeps flew. Probably a good thing.
I shot down a reported 7 x P35A and 3 P-40B and lost 2 A6M2s.
KB is headed West.

Had a bad time over Rangoon, lost a few aircraft, thngs happen.

Manila was not great lost 4 A6M2 for 8 x P-40E
Strikes against Clark Field and Iba did not fly.


I sank 6 xAKs from Hong Kong with a surface fleet.
Also sank 3 PTs.

For now, I have stopped all SST production, and increased the Naval shipyards by 53.
I am still producing the super BBs.
I accelerated two CVs( CV Taiho and CV Shinano )
I need to wait and see how that affects things next turn

I want to reiterate, I really don't fully understand everything about playing Japan. I hope
I am able to give my opponent a good fight, but I doubt it will be a thing of beauty.
I am learning and I suspect my second game in a couple of years or so from now will be better.
I am trying to make small increases in my production, hoping to not crash it.

Next turn I will land at Mersing, Aparri, and Vigan.
BTW, I forgot and left a number of airgoups on the mini CV TFs on training. It did not cost anything
but it could have been a problem.
No major disasters so far.

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Post #: 180
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