Proper use of HQ build up

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> Proper use of HQ build up

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Proper use of HQ build up - 6/3/2019 4:38:33 AM

Zombly

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Joined: 3/23/2019
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Hello! im currently preparing to start a new game as the germans, and something that has always been an issue for me is HQ build up

i understand what it does, but i cant seem to effectively use it in my offensives. If I use on an HQ, should the HQ i used it on be close to a rail head? cant it be a ways away? how long exactly does it take for the increase in supply at the HQ to move down to the divisions beneath it? should the divisions be near to the HQ when build up is activated? if so how close? etc.

any help is greatly appreciated.

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RE: Proper use of HQ build up - 6/3/2019 12:16:29 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zombly
i cant seem to effectively use it in my offensives. If I use on an HQ, should the HQ i used it on be close to a rail head? cant it be a ways away? how long exactly does it take for the increase in supply at the HQ to move down to the divisions beneath it? should the divisions be near to the HQ when build up is activated? if so how close? etc.

It is not used as much as it once was due to the much higher points costs it entails.

I would say the old optimum HQBU was to have an HQ exactly 20 hexes from rail with its units 25 hexes from rail (5 hexes from the HQ). And after the motorised has used less than three quarters of their movement points from the start of the turn doing other useful things. This would give the maximum fuel the maximum distance away. Moving the HQ closer to rail would mean more fuel - but that negates the purpose of an HQBU which is to fuel up units far off supply.

Also optimum was to do the buildup when the HQ had only 4 divisions assigned to it - this minimises the points cost per unit built up.

Of course in practise it is difficult to get close to this optimum and practicalities will mean you have to use it in other ways.

Once you do the buildup the units will have no more movement points this turn. But they should have full fuel tanks next turn. In addition the corps HQ will be stockpiled with enough fuel to fill them up again next turn - or whatever other units are assigned instead next turn to the HQ.

Here I am assuming you will be using a buildup to get more fuel into motorised units. But there are also more specialised circumstances where buildups are used for non-motorised units.

Bear in mind that an HQ actually on a repaired rail line, if in range of units, can give almost as much fuel to its units as an HQBU but without doing the build up - sometimes known as the "poor man's HQBU." There are also alternatives like getting units good commanders that can give units more movement points too see http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4326317&mpage=1. HQBUs also impose extra costs in terms of damaged and destroyed vehicles.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/3/2019 12:17:23 PM >

(in reply to Zombly)

Post #: 2

RE: Proper use of HQ build up - 6/3/2019 4:15:48 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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HQ BU is like normal resupply with higher base quota asked for by the unit and less penalties for distance to railhead/rail modifier etc.

Most important thing is probably that base quota asekd for is 100%+MP before HQBU/MP beginning of turn*100%, so an unmoved unit will ask for 200% supplies, not 100% as usually so it will get much more after the supply modifiers hit. As a corollary, do not move a unit with low MPs before a HQ BU, you give away a much higher supply quota next turn and gain little in this turn.

Generally everything applying to supply optimisation for normal resupply also applies to HQ BUs.
For more details, the library of WitE resources (linked in the my siganture) has some articles in two different levels of detail.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 6/6/2019 11:03:00 AM >

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The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

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RE: Proper use of HQ build up - 6/6/2019 9:49:01 AM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

HQ BU is like normal resupply with higher base quota asked for by the unit and less penalties for distance to railhead/rail modifier etc.

Most important thing is probably that base quota asekd for is 100%+MP beginning of turn/MP before HQBU*100%, so an unmoved unit will ask for 200% supplies, not 100% as usually so it will get much more after the supply modifiers hit. As a corollary, do not move a unit with low MPs before a HQ BU, you give away a much higer supply quota next turn and gain little in this turn.

Generally everything applying to supply optimisation for normal resupply also applies to HQ BUs.
For more details, the library of WitE resources (linked in the my siganture) has some articles in two different levels of detail.

This is quite interesting from the fact I have always moved to the maximum by Tele�s recommendations but what I understand in this post is to not move at all the turn of HQBU. What I foresee is to do the HQBU while waiting for the infantry to catch up turns 3-4 .. then get another big boost ?

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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 4

RE: Proper use of HQ build up - 6/6/2019 11:12:15 AM

EwaldvonKleist

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From: Berlin, Germany
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Note I corrected a mistake in the "supply asked for" formula.

Assume a position where the unit will have an overall supply modifier of 50%.
Assume the unit has 4MPs at the beginning of the turn with very low fuel stocks of only 8%.

Case 1: No movement before HQBU. Unit will ask for (100-8%)%+4/4*100%=192%% fuel and get 96% fuel and will have 104% fuel for the next turn.
Case 2: 3 of the 4 MPs used before the HQ BU (so 2% fuel left). Unit will ask for (100%-2%)+1/4*100%=123% fuel and get 61% fuel and will have 63% fuel in the next turn.

So there is a massive effect on resupply due to HQ if you move a unit low on supply.

The negative effect/relative cost per MP used of moving the unit before HQBU gets the smaller the more MP the unit has, if you start with 50MPs and use 3/4th of them you will be punished next turn as in case 2, but have benefitted of 3/4*50MPs=37MPs instead of just 3 for the current turn.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 6/6/2019 11:13:35 AM >

_____________________________

The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

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RE: Proper use of HQ build up - 7/4/2019 12:38:03 PM

beender

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From: Beijing, China
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I do know some house rules have gone to such extremes that hqbd is totally banned.

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RE: Proper use of HQ build up - 7/31/2019 8:29:05 PM

xalinas2

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Very personally, I think potential restrictions on HQBU should depend on relative skill and experience difference.

When both players are new to the game, is does not matter so much because understanding how to handle supply takes some time to figure out.

However after a while, my (limited) experience is that the initial learning curve is steeper for the axis than for the soviets, so the axis will have a structural edge once they figure out how supply really works. I think it takes much longer to learn how to counter this on the Soviet side.

Having said that, I played one of my first Soviet HvH games against Psycho (he proposed the no HQBU rule) and while totally being ruled by him, I learned tremendously a lot from the game. With HQBUs allowed, this would have made for a very boring game (like some of the infamous games when Leningrad is being isolated on T5 or so...

Based on that excellent experience, I usually offer no or very limited HQBU (e.g. limited to the South) in my few Axis games and usually get a lot of fun out of it. But then again I am considering that I am mainly playing at the intermediate level (whatever that means)...

(in reply to beender)

Post #: 7