RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE

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RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/19/2019 7:48:40 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

...I cannot fathom HOW this could occur when all a replay is is basically a reading of a txt file.....right?

No. As best I understand it they are basically re-doing the turn resolution to generate the input to the animations and the reports which the "replay" produces. There must be a million places where things can go wrong if there are little bugs/inconsistencies/etc.

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(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 31

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/19/2019 7:49:55 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Which is like saying, "I prefer my blow-up doll over dating Charlize Theron, because she sometimes is snappish."

Please put this tired, disgustingly denigrating reference to rest.

His blow-up doll is actually better than Charlize Theron? Not that I would ever want to denigrate anyone's blow-up doll.

But what if the blow-up doll is Theron's lookalike and Theron herself is as lifeless as a blow-up doll? THEWORLDWONDERS

< Message edited by Yaab -- 7/19/2019 7:50:36 PM >

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 32

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/19/2019 7:52:11 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

Wait, we are out of sync with the OP's issue.

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 33

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/19/2019 7:56:10 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Sometimes I video the replay so I can look at bits of it over and over again......

Roger

(in reply to RogerJNeilson)

Post #: 34

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/19/2019 10:29:52 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Sometimes I video the replay so I can look at bits of it over and over again......

Roger

If you look at the Combat Report before watching the replay, is that foreplay?

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RogerJNeilson)

Post #: 35

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 12:55:20 AM

Timotheus

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Joined: 12/13/2013
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ye gods, the boomer gen are suck cuc^s

here is your "sexy" (furious air quotes) charlize theron, without makeup and special fx in movies:

"sexy" charlize

and some moar
moar sexy for yah granpa

yummy yummy
oh yeah staff that ice cream down that fat gullet

Every thread that tries to get some game info and/or advice is taken over by the 101st granpa keyboard brigade with their inane BS. ugh.

It makes sense that having the same version and patches would make a difference.
That the allied replay does not read a simple text file (combat report) but instead uses a seed to RECREATE a turn a 2nd time for the 2nd player is.... INSANE.

_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
http://tinyurl.com/k3frrle

War in the Pacific Poradnik po Polsku
http://tinyurl.com/nxd4cesh

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 36

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 2:07:41 AM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
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Oh, granny, are my socks on right?
Well, no, dear, your left sock is on your right foot and your right sock is on your (censored).
Well, dag nab it, what do I have to do to get some decent service 'round here?
Stop listening to Timotheus, dear, and everything will be alright.

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 37

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 1:59:48 PM

RogerJNeilson

Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Sometimes I video the replay so I can look at bits of it over and over again......

Roger

If you look at the Combat Report before watching the replay, is that foreplay?

Many years ago I suffered from a problem of reading the combat report and not watching the action.... bad mistake as the report was often incorrect. I now always watch the action and have it record at the same time.

My comment earlier was tongue in cheek - but there is method in this.

1. The detailed combat action shows the combats with how the various enemy forces have fared and what is still able to fight back. Very useful intel. Want to know how well the enemy is set up at the end of the combat - you won't get that from the combat report as it simply tells you what the CV was at the start of the combat.....

2. When an enemy raid appears you get the approach line on the map..... by being able to freeze that moment you can see the likely take off point for that raid and deal with it appropriately.....

In both the above the ability to scratch through to the relevant frame is worth the minimal hard disc space taken to store the video and the millisecond it takes to switch the video record on and off

and yes either my tongue in cheek remark will not translate into American idiom, or some people with a certain mindset will use it to further exploit double entendres.

Roger

_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 38

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 3:27:03 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
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From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline

I remember hearing something like this some years back during PBEM sessions, he didn't like it much as the Allied side.

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Post #: 39

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 3:49:08 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Sometimes I video the replay so I can look at bits of it over and over again......

Roger

If you look at the Combat Report before watching the replay, is that foreplay?

Many years ago I suffered from a problem of reading the combat report and not watching the action.... bad mistake as the report was often incorrect. I now always watch the action and have it record at the same time.

My comment earlier was tongue in cheek - but there is method in this.

1. The detailed combat action shows the combats with how the various enemy forces have fared and what is still able to fight back. Very useful intel. Want to know how well the enemy is set up at the end of the combat - you won't get that from the combat report as it simply tells you what the CV was at the start of the combat.....

2. When an enemy raid appears you get the approach line on the map..... by being able to freeze that moment you can see the likely take off point for that raid and deal with it appropriately.....

In both the above the ability to scratch through to the relevant frame is worth the minimal hard disc space taken to store the video and the millisecond it takes to switch the video record on and off

and yes either my tongue in cheek remark will not translate into American idiom, or some people with a certain mindset will use it to further exploit double entendres.

Roger

My fingers hover over F key 9 which I have set up to take screen shots, and if I want to F key 8 which starts video recording. I hate it when the result box covers up part of the action, you lose those red vectors if you scroll the map.

(in reply to RogerJNeilson)

Post #: 40

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 4:10:48 PM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

You do know that there is a hot key [Ctrl]+p which will pause the turn resolution.
Can be set to a single key if you want.

The scroll bar in the lower left corner will work with the resolution paused.

Then you can take your time with screen shots or writing it down.

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 41

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 9:25:19 PM

Barb

Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline

Sync-bug is caused by players having different game versions! Get this right and you wont see it for a really long time!

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Post #: 42

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/20/2019 10:23:50 PM

BillBrown

Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Sync-bug is caused by players having different game versions! Get this right and you wont see it for a really long time!

Do people actually ignore the error warnings that pop up? If so, they deserve problems. If you are running a different exe than your opponent you will get an error message and you need to get it corrected immediately. Same goes for error messages about different pwhexe files.

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 43

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/21/2019 4:44:28 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

ye gods, the boomer gen are suck cuc^s

here is your "sexy" (furious air quotes) charlize theron, without makeup and special fx in movies:

"sexy" charlize

and some moar
moar sexy for yah granpa

yummy yummy
oh yeah staff that ice cream down that fat gullet

Every thread that tries to get some game info and/or advice is taken over by the 101st granpa keyboard brigade with their inane BS. ugh.

It makes sense that having the same version and patches would make a difference.
That the allied replay does not read a simple text file (combat report) but instead uses a seed to RECREATE a turn a 2nd time for the 2nd player is.... INSANE.

I am not clicking those links, because, you know, can't unsee?

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 44

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/22/2019 10:36:05 PM

Treetop64

Posts: 926
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: 519 Redwood City - BASE (Hex 218, 70)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Sync-bug is caused by players having different game versions! Get this right and you wont see it for a really long time!

Do people actually ignore the error warnings that pop up? If so, they deserve problems. If you are running a different exe than your opponent you will get an error message and you need to get it corrected immediately. Same goes for error messages about different pwhexe files.

I have difficulty believing that some might do this, then actually complain when problems arise. Mentioning common sense is almost an overstatement.

_____________________________

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 45

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/22/2019 10:51:52 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

You do know that there is a hot key [Ctrl]+p which will pause the turn resolution.

I tried to do this once during a combat animation playing and it kicked me out of the game. So that may not be a place to use it (or maybe it was just a fluke). I have used it other places w/o trouble.

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(in reply to Treetop64)

Post #: 46

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/23/2019 5:10:09 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

You do know that there is a hot key [Ctrl]+p which will pause the turn resolution.

I tried to do this once during a combat animation playing and it kicked me out of the game. So that may not be a place to use it (or maybe it was just a fluke). I have used it other places w/o trouble.

The manual P.18 listing shortcuts shows [Ctrl] [p] as the shortcut for pausing the game. I have used it with no problems about game continuation, but the animations did cease after using it, until restart of the game. To clarify, the animation screen was still there with the text reports at the bottom, but the ships and the firing/hits/sinkings were not there.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 7/23/2019 5:18:01 AM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 47

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/23/2019 10:18:30 PM

Timotheus

Posts: 481
Joined: 12/13/2013
Status: offline

Is it safe to assume that IF both players have the exact same version, and exact same map, the synch bug will not strike?

OR if the japanese player hits ESC key during replay, there is a chance that synch bug WILL EVENTUALLY strike (regardless if same version of game)?

Which is it?

Thanks in advance.

_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
http://tinyurl.com/k3frrle

War in the Pacific Poradnik po Polsku
http://tinyurl.com/nxd4cesh

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 48

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 3:00:10 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

Is it safe to assume that IF both players have the exact same version, and exact same map, the synch bug will not strike?

No.

OR if the japanese player hits ESC key during replay, there is a chance that synch bug WILL EVENTUALLY strike (regardless if same version of game)?

Perhaps.

Which is it?

Thanks in advance.

Alfred

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 49

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 3:08:08 AM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

Is it safe to assume that IF both players have the exact same version, and exact same map, the synch bug will not strike?

OR if the japanese player hits ESC key during replay, there is a chance that synch bug WILL EVENTUALLY strike (regardless if same version of game)?

Which is it?

Thanks in advance.

The first being mismatched WILL cause the sync bug. By ensuring I always have the exact same version as my opponent, I've only seen the bug 1 or 2 times, ever. Having matched versions is a requirement but can't prevent the bug 100% if users cause it as in point 2....

Caveat, I've never played from the Japanese side.... I "think" and have heard that the Japanese player can cause the bug to appear through some actions (ESC key, etc) during the turn resolution. I think you are correct that this gives a chance that the bug will appear, but it sure doesn't cause it every time. I must be lucky with my Japanese opponents that they are not regularly doing what ever can cause the bug during the turn resolution.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 50

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 3:09:00 AM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
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Alfred with the same answers as me, but a lot less words.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 51

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 8:39:49 AM

tarkalak

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/26/2017
From: Bulgaria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

Is it safe to assume that IF both players have the exact same version, and exact same map, the synch bug will not strike?

No.

OR if the japanese player hits ESC key during replay, there is a chance that synch bug WILL EVENTUALLY strike (regardless if same version of game)?

Perhaps.

Which is it?

Thanks in advance.

Alfred

Do you know what could cause it, apart from different versions?

If both players run the turn with the same random number generator seed, the same orders, the same database and the same rules (as in game version), then it shouldn't happen.

< Message edited by tarkalak -- 7/24/2019 8:41:41 AM >

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I do not know what is scarier: that I do understand nothing of this demonic script or that I am starting to see the demons that it evokes.

Me, studying for a PHD entry exam in Applied Mathematics.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 52

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 12:40:31 PM

Macclan5

Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline

....The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE

That my "bureaucratic workplace" will not allow me to load game on Bank owned computer equipment and dedicate 2 -3 hours daily to my "hobby" to ease my daily stress

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to tarkalak)

Post #: 53

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 1:47:55 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

....The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE

That my "bureaucratic workplace" will not allow me to load game on Bank owned computer equipment and dedicate 2 -3 hours daily to my "hobby" to ease my daily stress

I feel your pain, Mac!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 54

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 4:11:37 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

...Do you know what could cause it, apart from different versions?

If both players run the turn with the same random number generator seed, the same orders, the same database and the same rules (as in game version), then it shouldn't happen.

It isn't as simple as that.

There is a design flaw in the replay system which dates back to at least classic WITP. It cannot be corrected without writing a completely new replay system, and that task was deemed to be out of scope for AE.

There is approximately 400,000 lines of code in the AE package. Each turn there are thousands of "randoms" called up, not all directly fed into resolving the combat algorithms. As late as patch #6 (January 2012) a sync bug was fixed with code change #219. This sync bug stemmed from the auto upgrade option test for subs.

There is a definite limit as to how much can be publicly explained without disclosing details of the underlying game architecture, which of course is verboten. You will just have to trust me when I say that the AE devs located and fixed practically all the common causes which call up different "randoms". However only a completely new replay system has the potential to totally eliminate "the" sync bug. In the meantime it is up to the players to do their bit.

Alfred

(in reply to tarkalak)

Post #: 55

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/24/2019 11:09:54 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

My solution to sync bugs is to put on my sneakers (so I can sneak up on them), as soon as they see me and start running I stomp on them, splat! That method seems to fix it every time.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 56

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/25/2019 1:05:45 AM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

I was talking to a friend, today I think, and he reported that these bugs could come up through the p-trap into his kitchen sync. Once there, they were unable to climb out of the sync and he could wash them back down the drain.

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 57

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/25/2019 2:07:55 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I was talking to a friend, today I think, and he reported that these bugs could come up through the p-trap into his kitchen sync. Once there, they were unable to climb out of the sync and he could wash them back down the drain.

That reminds me of a Pink Floyd concert that I went to many years ago. Only time I remember a line of guys to p*** in the sync. Of course they could only use one of them because the other was clogged by an enormous mound of vomit.

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Post #: 58

RE: The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE - 7/26/2019 12:23:06 PM

Barb

Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5
....The one thing that REALLY pisses me off in WITPAE

That my "bureaucratic workplace" will not allow me to load game on Bank owned computer equipment and dedicate 2 -3 hours daily to my "hobby" to ease my daily stress

I feel your pain, Mac!

Oh, guys, how much do I understand you!!!

Actually I can take a Home Office from time to time and try to spend some hours on game. But it can really piss me off, when someone want to have a hour long skype-call during the turn!