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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 2x3+ 007

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RE: 2x3+ 007 - 8/9/2019 12:03:10 AM

Michael T

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I have always wondered why the hexes in the WITE map have longer sizes in the North-South direction. They are elongated N/S. So it's a shorter distance counting hexes N/S as opposed to E/W. Does anyone know why the hexes are elongated and not perfectly hexagonal?

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Post #: 271

RE: 2x3+ 007 - 8/9/2019 12:19:40 AM

joelmar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I have always wondered why the hexes in the WITE map have longer sizes in the North-South direction. They are elongated N/S. So it's a shorter distance counting hexes N/S as opposed to E/W. Does anyone know why the hexes are elongated and not perfectly hexagonal?

My guess is that it permits to fit the unit counters in height without making them too small for reading and stuffing all the info in.

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"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio

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Post #: 272

RE: 2x3+ 007 - 8/9/2019 2:11:23 AM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I have always wondered why the hexes in the WITE map have longer sizes in the North-South direction. They are elongated N/S. So it's a shorter distance counting hexes N/S as opposed to E/W. Does anyone know why the hexes are elongated and not perfectly hexagonal?

My guess is that it permits to fit the unit counters in height without making them too small for reading and stuffing all the info in.

This is a problem of maps with hexes. The corner of the unit sticks out unless the hex is big.

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Post #: 273

RE: 2x3+ 007 - 8/9/2019 2:38:19 AM

Michael T

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From: Queensland, Australia.
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Other games seem to solve this issue without undistorted hexes. Like 99%.

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Post #: 274

RE: 2x3+ 007 - 8/9/2019 5:36:17 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Kiev definitely is closer to your starting point north of Lvov then Dnepropetrovsk, hex or MP wise. Not sure what you mean there.

I was using creative licence - trust you to be precise!
OK correction - Dnepropetrovsk is much closer MP wise than you might think given how many hexes away it is.
Happy?

A good point about map distortion. Will WitE 2.0 make any non-cosmetic map changes?

The thing that really surprised me was to see how the WitE2.0 map is projected from so far to the North. You can see this for example in one of the maps in the WitE2.0 thread here. Baku is horizontally higher than Rostov!

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Post #: 275

2x3+ 007 Axis Allocations - 8/9/2019 6:05:10 PM

Telemecus

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For information only - attached turn 7 Axis team allocations

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 276

2x3+ 007 Axis Karelia - 8/9/2019 6:23:15 PM

Telemecus

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T007 Axis Karelia

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/9/2019 6:52:55 PM >

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Post #: 277

2x3+ 007 Axis North - 8/10/2019 9:26:47 AM

Telemecus

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T007 Axis North

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/10/2019 9:27:21 AM >

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Post #: 278

RE: 2x3+ 007 Axis North - 8/10/2019 11:38:26 AM

Zorch

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This is not looking good for Uncle Joe & company. Mud can't come soon enough.

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Post #: 279

RE: 2x3+ 007 Axis Karelia - 8/10/2019 1:58:04 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

T007 Axis Karelia

The big difference maker here was the use of SU�s. Especially SU�s set to withdrawal. There is no way we break this line without the disruption caused by the additional firepower assigned to HQ�s. Also the attacks did not suffer any penalties from cross HQ attacks. Finally, the Soviets did not commit any SU�s up here. Now it is Katy bar the door.

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Post #: 280

RE: 2x3+ 007 Axis North - 8/10/2019 5:50:24 PM

A21

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
This is not looking good for Uncle Joe & company.

See what comes next!

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Post #: 281

RE: 2x3+ 007 Axis North - 8/10/2019 6:27:44 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Armatrading

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
This is not looking good for Uncle Joe & company.

See what comes next!

Bedlam ...

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Post #: 282

2x3+ 007 Axis Centre - 8/10/2019 7:22:42 PM

Telemecus

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T007 Axis Centre

quote:

Supreme Soviet Commander
Oh my god...we are SO ****ED on the central front, its unbelievable.

They encircled ALL of our troops. ALL defenses in the center is lost.
The South has been broken trough
The North has a pocket.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/10/2019 7:24:02 PM >

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2x3+ 007 Axis Ukraine North - 8/11/2019 10:20:32 AM

Telemecus

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T007 Axis Ukraine North

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2x3+ 007 Axis Ukraine South - 8/11/2019 12:37:19 PM

Telemecus

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T007 Axis Ukraine South

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Post #: 285

2x3+ 007 Axis Rail Repair - 8/11/2019 4:03:24 PM

Telemecus

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T007 Rail Repair North and Centre

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Post #: 286

RE: 2x3+ 007 Axis Rail Repair - 8/11/2019 4:05:38 PM

Telemecus

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T007 Rail Repair South

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Post #: 287

2x3+ 007 - 8/11/2019 5:11:35 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

Soviet South Commander
Any point continuing guys?! I can do my turn but I don't really see the point. Good learning experience. Well played on their part in the centre.

I'm not very motivated to continue as you can hear.

I'll do my turn tonight but if you you also think we should fly the white flag, then let me know.

quote:

Soviet South Commander-
I thought about it more and am not interested to continue. "South Commander deserts"

Sorry to let you down. Thanks for the learning experience and all the best.

War in the East is a big beast of a game and it is perhaps always an unfair ask for someone to continue for long after in something that should be fun when they have lost heart. At least with a team game it can continue with replacements unlike a solo game that would now end - and former players continue to be friends and enthusiasts.

But the point here is not to talk about team changes but why the sudden change of heart from earlier in the game when they felt it was simply bad Axis play. I think the alternative opening for the south was the reason. By not going by the playbook and doing the unexpected it left the Soviet side dazed and confused. Without a yardstick to measure by, different play was confused for bad play. The alternative opening for the south was not a success in what it planned to do, but it was a success as a pysops by just being something else. The Soviet side then over committed to a defence close to the border and lost more than it might have done running from a more conventional strategy. Ultimately it was between how well two south commanders could adapt to the unknown.

The 3rd new member will be joining the Soviet team this turn. The Axis team felt with all the team changes it made sense to offer them the chance to make changes from the previous turn and carry on from there. Seeing what was going to happen we did not want to disappoint new players to the game. However the Soviet team were insistent that they should carry on for good or bad as normal. So I salute them!

With players coming and going of various abilities you expect any experience differences to even out over time. But I have noticed the advantanges one side can get from a stable team. Players from turn 1 who ranked themselves as inexperienced were now looking back from turn 7 to what they used to do with embarassment of how noobish they used to be. Our opponents do not now have the advantages of a stable team that had spent turns learning the game together and how to play with each other.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/11/2019 10:18:34 PM >

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Post #: 288

2x3+ 007 Soviet Finland - 8/12/2019 11:28:48 AM

Beria

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T007 Soviet Finland

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< Message edited by Beria -- 8/12/2019 11:36:45 AM >

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Post #: 289

2x3+ 007 Soviet North - 8/12/2019 11:38:37 AM

Beria

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T007 Soviet North

The pocket on the Luga has a breakaout

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< Message edited by Beria -- 8/12/2019 11:47:12 AM >

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Post #: 290

RE: 2x3+ 007 - 8/12/2019 4:37:05 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

Soviet South Commander
Any point continuing guys?! I can do my turn but I don't really see the point. Good learning experience. Well played on their part in the centre.

I'm not very motivated to continue as you can hear.

I'll do my turn tonight but if you you also think we should fly the white flag, then let me know.

quote:

Soviet South Commander-
I thought about it more and am not interested to continue. "South Commander deserts"

Sorry to let you down. Thanks for the learning experience and all the best.

War in the East is a big beast of a game and it is perhaps always an unfair ask for someone to continue for long after in something that should be fun when they have lost heart. At least with a team game it can continue with replacements unlike a solo game that would now end - and former players continue to be friends and enthusiasts.

But the point here is not to talk about team changes but why the sudden change of heart from earlier in the game when they felt it was simply bad Axis play. I think the alternative opening for the south was the reason. By not going by the playbook and doing the unexpected it left the Soviet side dazed and confused. Without a yardstick to measure by, different play was confused for bad play. The alternative opening for the south was not a success in what it planned to do, but it was a success as a psyops by just being something else. The Soviet side then over committed to a defence close to the border and lost more than it might have done running from a more conventional strategy. Ultimately it was between how well two south commanders could adapt to the unknown.

The 3rd new member will be joining the Soviet team this turn. The Axis team felt with all the team changes it made sense to offer them the chance to make changes from the previous turn and carry on from there. Seeing what was going to happen we did not want to disappoint new players to the game. However the Soviet team were insistent that they should carry on for good or bad as normal. So I salute them!

With players coming and going of various abilities you expect any experience differences to even out over time. But I have noticed the advantages one side can get from a stable team. Players from turn 1 who ranked themselves as inexperienced were now looking back from turn 7 to what they used to do with embarrassment of how noobish they used to be. Our opponents do not now have the advantages of a stable team that had spent turns learning the game together and how to play with each other.

I think this behavior as a strategy might fall under "self-confirming equilibrium". One player, who lacks a understanding of another players strategy, continues their strategy based on the mistaken believe that the opponent's strategy is inferior. Then a realization occurs followed by resignation. A strong team continues to exchange information and alter their strategy. This is the power of team play vs. individual play of the game.

The beauty of these forums is that a group of players will be exposed to numerous strategies along with outcomes. Eventually an equilibrium will be reached with all strategies considered. I propose to you that is at that point that game balance can be explored. That is considering any number of strategies and adjustments -- the outcome is always known.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)

Post #: 291

RE: 2x3+ 007 - 8/12/2019 4:55:56 PM

joelmar

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Joined: 3/16/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The beauty of these forums is that a group of players will be exposed to numerous strategies along with outcomes. Eventually an equilibrium will be reached with all strategies considered. I propose to you that is at that point that game balance can be explored

+1

_____________________________

"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio

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Post #: 292

2x3+ 007 Soviet Centre - 8/12/2019 7:10:21 PM

Telemecus

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As usual joiners to the game get referred to the creator and owner of the game dropboxes.

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 1/14/2020 4:19:20 PM >

(in reply to Beria)

Post #: 293

2x3+ 007 Soviet Centre - 8/12/2019 7:12:58 PM

Beria

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Joined: 4/6/2017
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T007 Soviet Centre

quote:

Soviet Supreme Commander
all reinforcement is going to center. Everything I can find is on its way there.

I cant believe they are that close and we are late July.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Beria -- 8/12/2019 7:13:47 PM >

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Post #: 294

RE: 2x3+ 007 Soviet Centre - 8/12/2019 7:52:05 PM

Zorch

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beria

T007 Soviet Centre

quote:

Soviet Supreme Commander
all reinforcement is going to center. Everything I can find is on its way there.

I cant believe they are that close and we are late July.

At this point, Stalin gets on the phone, calls Hitler, and offers to restore the Czar.

(in reply to Beria)

Post #: 295

2x3+ 007 Soviet Pripyat - 8/13/2019 12:49:59 PM

Beria

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T007 Soviet Pripyat