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RE: Pacific Theatre - 11/22/2019 11:02:58 PM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Unless I can get an Alpha Go computer A.I. will never be even remotely close to as good as a human for a game of this scale on a personal i7 gaming desktop. It just won't happen for any game.


The way technology is moving, that day may be here sooner than one might think. Back in the day the thought of flight sim not even close to whats out there today was just a dream. VR was something only in a movie-Lawnmower Man.

AI is for the most part still primitive. I use a product with something called "Advanced AI Engine" but in reality its still primitive.

I saw a thread in the War in the Pacific forum that was interesting. Someone mentioned that while the AI wasn't really up to the task in single player mode a solution was to use a random number generator. Once a number was hit you switched sides.

That's an interesting concept. Perhaps a game play mode that incorporated that could account for the fact that once an operation got underway your opponent could begin to dissect what you're up to and react effectively.

It would also give incentive to invest in things like spying and intelligence. It could also open up other possibilities. If you select a leader who is inflexible it could have game play consequences when you do switch sides.

Most of all it might be a workable solution to the AI issue until HAL comes along.

< Message edited by sfbaytf -- 11/22/2019 11:04:58 PM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 61
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/1/2019 4:39:07 PM   
Profender


Posts: 63
Joined: 10/26/2016
Status: offline 		Love that you are working on a Pacific theater for War Plan. I tried to open/download that file you posted a bit back but won't for some reason.
Best of Luck can't wait for this to release

(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 62
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/1/2019 4:47:01 PM   
GibClaret80

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 9/22/2019
Status: offline 		Brilliant work Alvaro yes really enjoying the game and a pacific version would be fantastic. Would this be the same years then 1939 through to 1945 ?? Or start in 1941 as in real life ??

(in reply to Profender)
Post #: 63
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/1/2019 5:22:27 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Pacific would be 1941 start.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

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Post #: 64
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/1/2019 5:24:41 PM   
GibClaret80

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 9/22/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Pacific would be 1941 start.


Thank you be interesting to see how you will do Pearl Harbour and Midway.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 65
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/1/2019 7:29:31 PM   
Meteor2


Posts: 429
Joined: 7/20/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		If Alvaros Naval model is a sophisticated one (and I have no doubt about that), Midway should have been won by the
Japanese forces.
The luck was on the american side, the statistics were in favor of the japanese.

(in reply to GibClaret80)
Post #: 66
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/1/2019 7:43:45 PM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

If Alvaros Naval model is a sophisticated one (and I have no doubt about that), Midway should have been won by the
Japanese forces.
The luck was on the american side, the statistics were in favor of the japanese.


Shows the benefit of the combination of strong intelliegence of knowing the enemies target/timeframe and the overconfidence of the opposing force …..

(in reply to Meteor2)
Post #: 67
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/1/2019 11:07:32 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		Remember Star Trek in the late 1960's and the communication tools. I was little and I thought those handheld phones were cool. People at that time never would have thought about the technology today, it's really unbelievable how fast everything is moving. Driverless cars? Really, 100 years from now we won't be here and it will be unrecognizable. By the way, I still don't own a cell phone!! I am the last holdout.

Keep up the good work with the games Alvaro

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 68
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/2/2019 1:00:31 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Midway could have gone both ways tbh - but the deployed forces were pratically on par in that battle. Both sides did **** ups as well. It shows how much unpredictable the naval-air warfare can be and how much situations, surprise, strikes of luck can swing a way or another.

At least until the swing of materials and production was definitely toward the USA.

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 69
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/2/2019 1:34:23 AM   
aspqrz02

 

Posts: 1024
Joined: 7/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
At least until the swing of materials and production was definitely toward the USA.


It was from practically 8/12/41 ... but it takes, for example, over a year to build a major warship such as a BB or CV, and another 3-6 months, possibly more, to fit her out and then another 3-6 months to train the crew to operational levels (longer at peacetime production levels).

The USN *cancelled* more warships in 1944, for example, than most of the western navies combined strength at that time for pretty much that reason.

(Heck, the US Army had more ships in WW2 than many navies ... sure, mostly cargo vessels)

Yamamoto was right about the 'sleeping giant' ... if only High Command had listened and, more importantly, comprehended the full correctness of his statement!

Phil McGregor

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(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 70
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/2/2019 4:33:55 AM   
Meteor2


Posts: 429
Joined: 7/20/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		It was good, to mention Midway, because the naval engagements are by far more dependent on
very specific and maybe unpredictable circumstances.
Detectability of the fleets, local weather, actual status of the carriers or deciphering enemy communication are of
importance for possible outcomes.
Best wishes for Alvaro to model these parameters.

(in reply to aspqrz02)
Post #: 71
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/2/2019 2:05:17 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Remember people this is a wargame not a historical recreation. Of course if there is a 1941 scenario there will be the option of a Pearl Harbor attack.

You can fight Midway if you like also but that is just part of strategy.

This post has actually given me ideas for my list.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Meteor2)
Post #: 72
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/2/2019 7:41:09 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

Remember people this is a wargame not a historical recreation


+1

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Post #: 73
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/2/2019 11:40:18 PM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline 		I mentioned this in another thread. I really like Decisive Campaigns Barbarrossa's strategic focus and card system. It add a feels that is missing from most wargames. You also have the option to play without the Strategic focus and card system. The fact that Stalin was a very Paranoid leader, Zukov and Khrushchev played vital roles, the Soviets were and offensively focused and attempted to carry that doctrine out in the early stages of the war to disastrous results and a host of other factors adds flavor to the game.

The reality in the Pacific was the Japanese Army and Navy hated and often worked against one another, The US cracked the Japanese codes and a wide array of other historical factors could be dealt with by the cards being played and give the game a historical flavor. It would also lead itself to replay ability. You can also be given the option to just choose to ignore the historical strategic focus and card system and play as a straight wargame.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 74
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 12:06:12 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Pacific would be 1941 start.


Out of curiosity, what's the downside of a 1940 or 1939 start to match up with a European scenario start ?

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 75
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 12:15:21 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		I would expect that WP2 (Pacific) will be entirely a stand alone Pacific game. Then perhaps with WP3 you might see a combined Europe/Pacific game.

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Post #: 76
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 4:07:31 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Eventually this will lead to a global game.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 77
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 4:57:44 AM   
Journier

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/28/2010
Status: offline 		ive invested into this first part, if you can make it at all close to the level of war in the pacific AE, with a more modern interface, ill be wanting to give up more cash. As much as I love WITP AE, the interface has aged so poorly. Also you have a working AI, it makes mistakes but it is a AI and not a large scripted event series like WITP AE.

throw us the ability to mod in More detailed ship stats, more detailed dmg models, youd be a hero of the war gaming community.

Have a great one. :)

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 78
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 6:49:15 AM   
Meteor2


Posts: 429
Joined: 7/20/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Journier

ive invested into this first part, if you can make it at all close to the level of war in the pacific AE, with a more modern interface, ill be wanting to give up more cash. As much as I love WITP AE, the interface has aged so poorly. Also you have a working AI, it makes mistakes but it is a AI and not a large scripted event series like WITP AE.

throw us the ability to mod in More detailed ship stats, more detailed dmg models, youd be a hero of the war gaming community.

Have a great one. :)



I hated these turning points, when suddenly (1943?) all the data for US-ships where improved out of nowhere.
From this date on Japanese losses in ships increased without any reason …

(in reply to Journier)
Post #: 79
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 1:05:41 PM   
Journier

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/28/2010
Status: offline 		hah yea, WITP AE has its strangeness for sure, (good luck having many damaged american CA's BB's and CV's sink unless damn near underwater already, their damage control ability is profoundly good!) but its sadly the only game that even tries to go for such a comprehensive look. I love playing as japan for control of production and holding out against the menace of the giant.

If Warplan got even more stats to mod regarding ships, and infantry,being moddable could create a version of the game that would bring in a solid chunk of that community I feel, Warplan has such a strong basis, and it already has a lot of modding capability. Loving it. SC3 WAW etc doesnt even scratch the itch too basic.

(in reply to Meteor2)
Post #: 80
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 1:26:01 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Don't beat up WitP AE. It is a monster accomplishment of a monster game. A.I. is still difficult to do especially in the Pacific where it is a chess game of bases. It also tried to simulate it very closely.

WarPlan Pacific will not have as many islands. It will be island groups. Say the Marshall Islands in WitP has 9 port/air bases... WarPlan will have 2-3 at best. WarPlan is a simple game to manage and hard one to master.

I couldn't play WitP because it was too big.
I did love the SSI Pacific War. I thought that was the right scale.


_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Journier)
Post #: 81
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/3/2019 7:20:44 PM   
Christolos


Posts: 953
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		Will definitely be a buy for me!

Thanks "Big Al"!

Cheers,

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 82
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 4:52:12 AM   
Profender


Posts: 63
Joined: 10/26/2016
Status: offline 		Can you re-upload that screen shot from a few posts back? Seems to be a broken link. Would love to see it

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 83
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 11:35:10 AM   
Journier

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/28/2010
Status: offline 		do you mean SSI pacific general alvaro? Couldnt find a SSI pacific war game googling around.

I do remember pacific general though from long time ago on a packard bell computer deep in the landfill.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 84
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 12:10:18 PM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Journier

do you mean SSI pacific general alvaro? Couldnt find a SSI pacific war game googling around.

I do remember pacific general though from long time ago on a packard bell computer deep in the landfill.


I think Alvaro meant Gary Gigsby's Pacific War (1992), the first true computer monstergame. It was published by SSI, republished by Matrix (now for free), re-patched by Richard Dionne. Great game. Still.





(in reply to Journier)
Post #: 85
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 2:35:26 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Journier

do you mean SSI pacific general alvaro? Couldnt find a SSI pacific war game googling around.

I do remember pacific general though from long time ago on a packard bell computer deep in the landfill.







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Journier)
Post #: 86
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 2:48:16 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		This is the current screen shot of the full map I am working on.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 87
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 2:52:12 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Here is a close up of Japan. There is still a LOT of work to be done on making the map pretty. You can see there is a lot of room for operational level play with units. Land air bases will be an important factor in the Pacific. When I am not on this forum or debugging I am working on this.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 88
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 2:53:18 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		This was all done using the map importer in the editor then smoothing out the edges. It actually didn't take as long as I thought to get this far so clearly I am doing something right in the editor.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 89
RE: Pacific Theatre - 12/4/2019 2:53:28 PM   
Sigma8510

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		OMG!!!!

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 90
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