RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE

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RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 9/13/2019 4:36:29 AM

Aksully

Posts: 97
Joined: 2/16/2016
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Hi Kull,
Working though the Dec 09 turn with your SS. I'm moving along quite nicely. I do have a question about air units training in the US. Is there an experience level that should be attained before transferring to a west coast port to be embarked? Specifically, the 54th PG units at Continents 212,52 that transferred to Ogden. Currently they are at Exp level in mid 40's. Thx!

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Post #: 181

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 9/13/2019 6:02:10 AM

Schorsch

Posts: 81
Joined: 1/25/2010
From: Germany
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get them to around 50. after that dont put them into the hottest areas right off the bat but somewhere where they got the possibility to grind some exp with missions. at 70+ i would consider them "frontline-ready"

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Post #: 182

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 9/13/2019 1:05:57 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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Fighters require higher experience and Air Skill/Defensive Skill levels than other aircraft if you want to avoid heavy losses to the experienced Japanese.
By all means move them out to someplace like Australia where they can be staged forward more quickly, but finish their training by flying CAP in areas outside the reach of enemy fighters (14 hexes for a Zero with drop tanks). Running a percentage training at the same time as a percentage CAP seems to help skill level gains.

Overall experience is hard to raise above 60 by just flying CAP or Escort missions because those only affect Air skill. If you also train some Strafe at 100 feet and some Low Naval or Low Ground at 1000 feet you can increase Experience more quickly and get the Defensive skill up very quickly. Defensive skill seems to help in dodging flak and balloons.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 9/13/2019 1:07:17 PM >

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Post #: 183

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 9/13/2019 1:16:14 PM

Kull

Posts: 2625
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From: El Paso, TX
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On December 9th, pretty much all the Allied pilots are terrible. I would agree with Schorsch that experience levels of 70+ are desirable, but you don't have many fighter pilots at that level, this early in the game, and it's gonna take a loooong time to get there. Accordingly I try for a 50 (Exp) - 60 (Air) - 60 (Defn)- mix before putting them into the meat grinder, but it's just gonna be ugly for a few months.

Best thing to do is to train them up as much as possible in the rear area units and then periodically pull the best guys into the front-line units. Fighter pilots with skills in the 50's and 40's are just meat, but in the early war, sometimes that's all you've got.

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Post #: 184

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 9/13/2019 4:08:19 PM

Aksully

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Appreciate your comments Schorsch, BB, & Kull! Thx all.

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Post #: 185

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 11/16/2019 4:35:54 AM

Professor Chaos

Posts: 87
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Thank you for this Kull!

One question for you - could you outline the major on-map and off-map convoys contemplated? The shipping roundups seem to anticipate particular convoy routes in the future, but I wasn't quite sure what they were.

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Post #: 186

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 11/16/2019 1:41:19 PM

Kull

Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Chaos

Thank you for this Kull!

One question for you - could you outline the major on-map and off-map convoys contemplated? The shipping roundups seem to anticipate particular convoy routes in the future, but I wasn't quite sure what they were.

The idea is that it's easier to run convoys from fewer starting locations, preferably those with larger ports. In general you can get the gist of what's intended just by looking at the convoys created in the first few turns. Hauling fuel, supply, troops, and planes from the West Coast to Australia (and islands in between) is probably the biggest focus area, but there are many others!

A lot of it is pretty obvious when you think about it. Fuel can't leave Abadan unless it's shipped out, and the clear destination is India (at least initially). Similar thing with the planes and troops that begin to appear in Aden.

The important thing is to get used to the idea of assembling convoys and assigning proper escorts. Every player has different ideas on how best to prosecute the war, but that always entails building up forces and supply/fuel in particular locations. You will know that far better than I, and in that sense the spreadsheet is like a set of training wheels - it puts things in motion, but the long term plans are yours to make.

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Post #: 187

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/10/2019 4:12:04 PM

Evoken

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Thank you so much for this Kull , before i'd seen this spreadsheet i was so lost on what to do. You saved me a lot of confused times.

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Post #: 188

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/10/2019 5:10:26 PM

Kull

Posts: 2625
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From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken

Thank you so much for this Kull , before i'd seen this spreadsheet i was so lost on what to do. You saved me a lot of confused times.

Happy to help, man! I can still remember my first "Turn 2 experience" - staring at the post Pearl Harbor situation and being literally overwhelmed. 1000's of things that needed doing and 100's of game skills necessary to pull them off and no idea where to begin with any of it.

Follow the steps and everything will start to fall into place. By Turn 5 or so, you'll actually have a pretty decent understanding of what's going on and all the basic skills will seem obvious. You'll get there!

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Post #: 189

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/12/2019 1:57:55 AM

coachi

Posts: 185
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great spreadsheet - especially for a noob question I can't figure out rows m through o. In noob language please?

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Post #: 190

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/12/2019 2:19:54 AM

Kull

Posts: 2625
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From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: coachi

great spreadsheet - especially for a noob question I can't figure out rows m through o. In noob language please?

"M" tells you what to do with the Industry/Base/LCU/Ship/Air element in that row

"N" through "AH" can be ignored. There are helpful aspects, but you could probably delete all those columns (as a noob) and never notice. Put another way, there isn't any "go do this" or "here be dragons" in those columns (probably a few "here be cockroaches", though).

< Message edited by Kull -- 12/12/2019 2:40:24 AM >

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Post #: 191

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/16/2019 12:05:32 PM

LGKMAS

Posts: 267
Joined: 4/25/2010
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Just found this and it is brilliant. Just one question
When you say No Action, what does that mean? The screen shot for each unit has no button for no action. I am in Alaska at the moment as I work my way down the spreadsheet. I have done the patrol aircraft etc, I have set the Alaska Defence Cmd to head to Seward. but where do I set all the ground units (LCUs??) to no action. is this Reserve? but if I do that, I get nothing that tells me it will cost me PP?

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Post #: 192

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/16/2019 6:55:59 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

Just found this and it is brilliant. Just one question
When you say No Action, what does that mean? The screen shot for each unit has no button for no action. I am in Alaska at the moment as I work my way down the spreadsheet. I have done the patrol aircraft etc, I have set the Alaska Defence Cmd to head to Seward. but where do I set all the ground units (LCUs??) to no action. is this Reserve? but if I do that, I get nothing that tells me it will cost me PP?

No Action just means you don't have to give any orders to the unit - it is already in an appropriate mode (usually Combat Mode). You do not pay PP to give orders to a unit. You pay PP to change their HQ or their leader. And if a unit/ship is due to withdraw and you do not have it in an appropriate base to do so, you pay PP every turn as a penalty. Big ships cost beaucoup PP!

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Post #: 193

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/16/2019 7:45:56 PM

LGKMAS

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Still not certain about this. yes, I understand that you use PP to change HQs etc, but the spreadsheet reads eg Anchorage - LCU- 1/250th Coastal Artillery - 2- no action (costs 68 PP).
If it costs no PP to do nothing, what does the" (costs 68PP)" mean?

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Post #: 194

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/16/2019 9:49:34 PM

Kull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

Still not certain about this. yes, I understand that you use PP to change HQs etc, but the spreadsheet reads eg Anchorage - LCU- 1/250th Coastal Artillery - 2- no action (costs 68 PP).
If it costs no PP to do nothing, what does the" (costs 68PP)" mean?

That's just a helpful comment (or at least it was supposed to be, LOL!) The unit belongs to a "restricted" HQ, and that means (among other things) that you can't load it on ships. It would cost 68 political points to move it to a non-restricted HQ, should you desire to ship it off to some non-Alaskan mainland location.

In general, if the first comment is "no action", it means you can ignore everything about that unit, at least until/unless you decide to do something with it.

< Message edited by Kull -- 12/16/2019 9:52:06 PM >

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Post #: 195

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/16/2019 11:02:09 PM

LGKMAS

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Ahh, gottit! Thanks.
I am working off scenario based on 8 Dec start. Hopefully I should have the rest of the day entered by the end of the weekend. Something to look forward to.
regards

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Post #: 196

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/20/2019 11:18:27 AM

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Great work, Krull! Been playing this game for many years from as far back as the original PacWar in the 80's. I just have a question as I only play the AI: I have always stuck to a strict formula for aircraft altitudes, i.e. 6000' for searches and "as low as you can go" for ASW. I notice working your spreadsheet for the first time that you do not follow these guidelines and vary quite a bit including dual training and other missions of air units. What are your thoughts on these altitudes (without getting deep into dive/level/strafe/etc bombing altitudes)towards how you dual mission a unit with training/search/etc.?

On another subject; I too, used to always save the Ausie units for building the 8th. I will try out your tactic of saving III Indian for this one. Cheers and thank you for the hard work in something we love to play!

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Post #: 197

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/20/2019 2:21:32 PM

Kull

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Hi KJ - glad you're enjoying the game! As for aircraft altitudes, well that's a huge subject all by itself! First and foremost, there are definitely forumites who have honed those numbers down to some level of perfection after years of PBEM trial-and-error, and you'll undoubtedly learn more by reading through AARs or doing a forum search. I've played enough opening campaigns (3-6 months) to know that my advice works against the early war AI opponent, but it's far from optimal, I'm sure. That said:

Training: If there's a hard and fast rule, it would this one. Train at 100% at Zero range, in every skill you are training for. Altitude levels can affect which skills are gained, so be careful with those.
CAP: Where possible, I try to use bands of altitude, especially for the fighters defending carrier TFs. For example, sticking all your fighters at higher altitudes might be helpful against escorts, but is an invitation to "death by torpedo" from Betty and her ilk.
ASW: Lower is better, but we're also talking about the AI. So I put them at 4-5K, simply to give the AI subs a better chance.
Naval Search: I use altitudes that vary from 6K to 9K, but there's no real science behind it.

Most of the other air missions really depend on the target and it's defenses. And many of the things which work in the early war (which is the time frame of the spreadsheet) become ineffective (or dangerous) as the months and years go by. But that's part of the beauty of this game - the more you play, the more you realize there's a counter for almost every strategy. It's a fun journey though!

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Post #: 198

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/23/2019 6:01:50 AM

LGKMAS

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Just finally got to enter the Continental USA and a few questions. You mention in both San Diego and Seattle units called Det C and Det B of USN Port Services. They don't show up on my list of LCUs in either port and I can't locate them when I look at the total list of LCUs. I note you have Det A and Det D appearing later in Dec actually out on the islands Has there been an upgrade to get rid of these or did they get a name change?
I have found some items that I need to go back and read the manual, especially regarding adding pilots and airframes to units.
This is a great learning tool and I need to go back and mark follow-on activities you have indicated to make sure I remember to do them. Hopefully, once all the small items are lumped into big ones, (ie 6 ships make up a convoy so you only have to worry about one entry rather than six from now on,) the orders phase will shorten.

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Post #: 199

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/23/2019 7:46:33 AM

GetAssista

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I'm here just to commend Kull on creating this extremely useful instrument. Kudos!

I mean, look how this thread gets bumped up almost continuously with the recent influx of new players.

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Post #: 200

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/23/2019 1:14:08 PM

Kull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

Just finally got to enter the Continental USA and a few questions. You mention in both San Diego and Seattle units called Det C and Det B of USN Port Services. They don't show up on my list of LCUs in either port and I can't locate them when I look at the total list of LCUs. I note you have Det A and Det D appearing later in Dec actually out on the islands Has there been an upgrade to get rid of these or did they get a name change?
I have found some items that I need to go back and read the manual, especially regarding adding pilots and airframes to units.
This is a great learning tool and I need to go back and mark follow-on activities you have indicated to make sure I remember to do them. Hopefully, once all the small items are lumped into big ones, (ie 6 ships make up a convoy so you only have to worry about one entry rather than six from now on,) the orders phase will shorten.

Good catch - that's an issue from the earliest version of the spreadsheet, when I had units set to arrive at random times. I fixed most of that in later revs, but obviously missed a couple. Both units will appear in 2 days (12/9) in the indicated locations. The comments are still correct, but you'll have to wait a few days before taking those actions.

And yes, consulting the manual should be a FREQUENT exercise at the beginning! That's where the true knowledge lies, I'm just giving advice on what to do with it.

Lastly, this first turn is the longest, by far. From this point forward there is less to do, plus you know how things work so there's less time spent on figuring out the mechanics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

I'm here just to commend Kull on creating this extremely useful instrument. Kudos!

I mean, look how this thread gets bumped up almost continuously with the recent influx of new players.

Thanks man! There's all sorts of learning styles - some guys figure it out from youtube or reading PBEMs, but quite a few (me absolutely included) need that initial "hand holding" to see how everything interconnects. It's a great feeling to see new folks come on board and become lovers of the game, and know you've played some small part in that. Huge kudos to all the other folks who do their part in answering questions and helping in countless other ways!

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Post #: 201

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 12/24/2019 3:52:50 AM

NigelKentarus

Posts: 207
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Love your SS. I play DBB & I use it as a general guideline. Little by little I've been changing the unit ID's, stats, and what not to match DBB. Additionally, for my use, I've added a couple of columns at the end for Leaders. I've only added the Leaders that are present at Day 1 in the editor, if it's random, it's blank. I liked the Leaders only because I can see the "hard-wired" ones & prioritize which to change. The random Leaders are a case by case.

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Post #: 202

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/2/2020 7:03:18 AM

LGKMAS

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Kull
I am working through the results of turn one. So far so good. And I am inserting the new arrivals. Thanks again for the excellent Spreadsheet! Then I had a sudden thought. (Yes, it does happen!)
What is your strategy behind all these first moves?
Are you intending to defend Singapore to the death knell? Or pull out as much as you can before it falls?
Are you pulling back to Port Moresby and establishing a fortress there?
What is your aim in the Philippines?
Similarly Burma?
Are you intending to push the carriers forward to help defend Wake or are you pulling them out of harm's way? I think this is called the Sir Robin strategy?
What do you intend for Darwin? There seem to be a lot of forces headed that way?
What about the Aleutians? Are they intended to form a northern striking force? I note you want a sub base up there.
While I have my own thoughts on an Allied strategy, they may not necessarily align with yours. I would just like to know what you had intended so I can look at it and decide which way to go.

(in reply to NigelKentarus)

Post #: 203

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/2/2020 8:27:10 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

Kull
I am working through the results of turn one. So far so good. And I am inserting the new arrivals. Thanks again for the excellent Spreadsheet! Then I had a sudden thought. (Yes, it does happen!)
What is your strategy behind all these first moves?
Are you intending to defend Singapore to the death knell? Or pull out as much as you can before it falls?
Are you pulling back to Port Moresby and establishing a fortress there?
What is your aim in the Philippines?
Similarly Burma?
Are you intending to push the carriers forward to help defend Wake or are you pulling them out of harm's way? I think this is called the Sir Robin strategy?
What do you intend for Darwin? There seem to be a lot of forces headed that way?
What about the Aleutians? Are they intended to form a northern striking force? I note you want a sub base up there.
While I have my own thoughts on an Allied strategy, they may not necessarily align with yours. I would just like to know what you had intended so I can look at it and decide which way to go.

Seek and ye shall find the answers in posts

#1
#5
#53

Alfred

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Post #: 204

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/2/2020 8:41:09 AM

LGKMAS

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I think this seriously qualifies as a "DOH!" moment. I blame my advancing years! Thanks Alfred!

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Post #: 205

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/2/2020 12:57:53 PM

Kull

Posts: 2625
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Strategically, all unit movements and/or adjustments were made to support a fairly conservative Allied approach. The top level objectives are as follows:

1) Hold Burma
2) Build up bases in Eastern India
3) Holding action in China (limited offensives, but mostly moving troops into defensible positions)
4) US Carriers positioned to assault either Wake or the Marshalls
5) Limited "Sir Robin" in DEI and Phillipines combined with aggressive SCTF activity
6) Detailed network of Search & ASW planes at key locations (interlocking verified and tweaked)
7) Almost all subs sent on patrol (with patrol zones detailed)
8) Get convoys moving between the US and Pearl Harbor/Australia & Abadan/Aden/Capetown and India
9) Begin to establish a line of bases between the US and Australia
10) Preparations for building out the Aleutians

In the 10+ years since writing up that 10 point strategy, I've learned that playing smashmouth with the Japanese AI is not conducive to a long game. So, for example, "holding Burma" is certainly doable, but not helpful if your REAL goal is to have an interesting campaign. Accordingly, for the first six months I do fight back, but usually only with the historical forces at hand. That is not boring, btw - you learn a lot and can still give the AI a few small black eyes in the process (as the Allies did historically). The AI should be able to take most of the NEI, Malaya, Burma, New Guinea, a few odd islands here and there and the Solomons. Once that is done, it has fewer things to focus on (primarily building up rear defenses) and you'll find it just as hard as the Allies did to take back what was lost, especially in 1942.

That said, these opening moves will let you follow either path, and the most important thing is that you are learning how the game works and how everything fits together. As the Allies, time is totally on your side, and even when you make mistakes, they won't be fatal. Historically, in late 1942 the Allies had ONE semi-functioning carrier and it was being repaired. Yet they still recovered, and then some!

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Post #: 206

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/2/2020 5:25:27 PM

Professor Chaos

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One of the frustrating things for a newbie is not being able to figure out what you're 'allowed' to do vs. the AI for a decent game. I'm at March 1, 1942 in updated Scenario 2 with about a hundred hours into a game so far, and am wondering if it's all pointless in the long term because I've staked a lot on reinforcing Burma. (The AI has taken Singapore and is about to crush Bataan).

Am I allowed to hold Port Moresby? Am I allowed to attack the unescorted shipping unloading at Buna? Am I allowed to expend the Dutch navy against landings in the DEI? Am I allowed to counter when the AI lands a regiment on Rossel Island? Etc., etc.

Of course none of this is a rant against you Kull... it's just depressing thinking I've wasted all this time by fighting back a little too hard.

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Post #: 207

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/2/2020 6:11:45 PM

Kull

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From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Chaos

One of the frustrating things for a newbie is not being able to figure out what you're 'allowed' to do vs. the AI for a decent game. I'm at March 1, 1942 in updated Scenario 2 with about a hundred hours into a game so far, and am wondering if it's all pointless in the long term because I've staked a lot on reinforcing Burma. (The AI has taken Singapore and is about to crush Bataan).

Am I allowed to hold Port Moresby? Am I allowed to attack the unescorted shipping unloading at Buna? Am I allowed to expend the Dutch navy against landings in the DEI? Am I allowed to counter when the AI lands a regiment on Rossel Island? Etc., etc.

Of course none of this is a rant against you Kull... it's just depressing thinking I've wasted all this time by fighting back a little too hard.

There isn't a hard and fast rule, really. Holding Singapore, Java/Sumatra, Rabaul, or the Phillipines will "break" the AI for sure. Burma is less of an issue because the AI can get there overland, and it should be able to make it very painful for you to hold onto it. PM is dicey because it's too easy to atrit the incoming shipping. The AI can survive if you fight hard there, but it may keep it from doing other interesting things once PM is taken. The easiest thing is losing islands. Once the AI takes one, that closes off the script and you can look to take it back. That may interfere with a reinforcement subscript (base forces, etc), but too bad, AI (in general I try not to stop any initial invasions, but reinforcements are fair game).

But there isn't any such thing as "wasting your time". I've restarted countless campaigns several months in, for various reasons. All were fun, but usually there was some new approach I wanted to try. I'm pretty happy with the Scen 102 Tier 1 Ironman, and Andy's latest update to that is probably even better. The AI has a lot more stuff, but nothing crazy, so it's been a real battle. Huge air attrition battles over Burma and the Solomons, and lot of tough naval engagements, too.

Thing is, a new player shouldn't start with a scenario like this, but only go there when you have a good feeling for how everything works. Which is really what Scen 1 & 2 are all about. Of course you can also try the May '42 or May '43 campaigns, and those *should* work without having to pull any punches right from the start

Ultimately though, if it's too frustrating to impose limits on your actions (because that is needed for all December 41 campaigns, unless you go with the Tier 3 versions), PBEM might be your only choice.

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Post #: 208

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/5/2020 3:44:13 AM

LGKMAS

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Hi Kull
Now a few days into it. my ships have arrived at Cochin to load a Base det to North male. The Det is India Command (R) or something like that. North male is Southeast Asia. I could not load the det so I thought it needed to have the command changed. Yet when I look at the commands available, it tells me that Southeast Asia is not due to form for some months yet. I know the ships will be better moving things around until then but is there any way the det can be sent to North male before then?
I have the same problem in the South pacific. I am trying to get a unit off an island and it is suggested I wait to get South pacific Command operating. But when I look at the game reinforcement schedule, it states the South pacific Command will not be available until about June 1942!
Am I missing something?
regards

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Post #: 209

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE - 1/5/2020 6:12:00 AM

BBfanboy

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First: some units are permanently restricted and cannot be bought out with PP. It sounds like your unit is not permanently restricted so it can be bought out.

It does not matter if the HQ you want to assign it to has not arrived yet. There is no possibility of getting the bonus from same HQ prepped for same target until it does arrive, but for backwater islands it is very unlikely there will be combat there when the HQ arrives anyway.

Nothing requires you to pick SEA HQ as the new assignment. ABDA Command should still be available, and a few Indian Corps HQs are unrestricted. I use III Corps HQ a lot. For Indian units the cost of using III Corps is a quarter the cost of using another HQ outside India Command.

If you don't want to use precious PP at all and the unit is small/lightly equipped, you can airlift the unit there using transport aircraft or patrol aircraft. Don't forget to send a small ship loaded with cargo there too.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to LGKMAS)

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Slitherine

RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE