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Stacking Limits and AI

 
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Stacking Limits and AI - 2/13/2020 6:11:58 PM   
SLeyers

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 4/7/2018
From: S.Carolina
Status: offline 		Looking to get a feel for how many folks use the modified stacking limits introduced with DaBabes scenarios for other scenarios playing against the AI. I like the concept and was debating installing the file for playing a stock campaign but do not want to inadvertently over-restrict the AI. Do the revised limits restrict the AI to such a point to become a problem or is it fairly transparent?

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RE: Stacking Limits and AI - 2/13/2020 6:37:12 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I play Ironman scenarios against the Japanese AI using stacking limits everywhere.

The AI apparently isn't coded to observe stacking limits anywhere except the atolls and small islands that have stacking limits in stock. I only use 'apparently' because I can't speak to what is, or is not coded.

This doesn't have a huge impact, if you are playing with a 'hard' setting as the negative supply impact will be mitigated.
What likely isn't mitigated is the impact on morale, disruption and fatigue recovery.

I like using stacking limits everywhere because of how it impacts how I have to play, not how the AI has to play.

Stacking limits often have to be ignored when attacking, because the only way you can get a positive outcome is to over stack and weather through the negative effects until the battle is over.




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RE: Stacking Limits and AI - 2/14/2020 11:34:22 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The AI apparently isn't coded to observe stacking limits anywhere except the atolls and small islands that have stacking limits in stock. I only use 'apparently' because I can't speak to what is, or is not coded.



I don't think it observes those, either, or perhaps it is just that Andymac's scripts do not always pull a lot of defenders to those locales. As opposed to Truk, or the Bonins.




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RE: Stacking Limits and AI - 2/14/2020 12:55:44 PM   
SLeyers

 

Posts: 9
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From: S.Carolina
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quote:

What likely isn't mitigated is the impact on morale, disruption and fatigue recovery.


Hans, Thanks for the feedback. Have you noted in your experiences any of these impacts that the AI, due to their scripts, get overly penalized for? Or does the AI just does not end up with over stacks at key low limit locations as Ian suggests.

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RE: Stacking Limits and AI - 2/14/2020 5:29:06 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		It's very hard to gauge what the degree of impact on hidden stats are for the opposite side.

I don't load up the Japanese side to see what going on under the hood.

I do see the AI over stacking in key defense hexes, because it doesn't have any coded instructions to observe the limits.

There are a couple of threads of mine floating around about my assaults on Osaka and Tokyo in my current game, that give some good illustrations of what to expect.

Tokyo is in the surreal category because all destroyed LCUs get rebuilt there, and for some reason left there.
As some have pointed out I have myself to blame for how over stacked Tokyo is because I made a point of hunting down and destroying every last Jap LCU I came into contact with instead of leaving them to rot in place.

Attacking heavily fortified, heavily stacked bases like Osaka, requires the attacker to over stack as well. Over stacking penalties can be managed up to a certain point. Once you pass that point, you have no choice but to start pulling units out as you will never recover the disruption and fatigue from the last attack to be able to make a follow up attack. Not to mention how quickly your stockpiled supply will evaporate once you pass the over stacking tipping point.

I don't have a good formula for what exactly that tipping point is. It likely varies as a result of terrain and just what the actual stacking limit for the hex is. My presumption has always been that the imposed stacking limits are essentially terrain dependent. I do know that I have passed that tipping point on more than one occasion and been forced to pull units out to make the continuation of the offensive viable again.


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RE: Stacking Limits and AI - 2/15/2020 12:28:56 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		May not know about stacking limits, but that doesn't lessen the impact upon the AI. Still happens equally to the AI as against you.

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RE: Stacking Limits and AI - 2/15/2020 1:56:53 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: SLeyers

quote:

What likely isn't mitigated is the impact on morale, disruption and fatigue recovery.


Hans, Thanks for the feedback. Have you noted in your experiences any of these impacts that the AI, due to their scripts, get overly penalized for? Or does the AI just does not end up with over stacks at key low limit locations as Ian suggests.


To clarify a bit - the standard scenario AI is not all that flash at putting garrisons out on captured islands, but see next ...

In Ironman scenarios you will see overstacking in places like Kwajalein, and also some localities the AI is expected to capture, because the garrison troops appear directly at the base as reinforcements. Which as I understand it was done deliberately by the scenario designer, Andymac. I haven't played a standard scenario for about 5 years, but my recollection is the garrisons were much thinner on the ground. I don't want to spoiler it for Hans, but have PM'd you some details from a save game.

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