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Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's?

 
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Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 6:32:41 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		I'm very late in 1944 in my slog against the Gorn I've tried many explorations of various historical and unhistorical tactics. I've also been using them in some pretty unorthodox roles. But I'd be very appreciative of any suggestions to get the most efficient use of them. They do spend an inordinate amount of time in the "body and fender shop". Thanks in advance for any suggestions or comments.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 6:37:32 PM   
jmscho


Posts: 126
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: York, UK
Status: offline 		As a Japanese Fan, I suggest keeping them in mainland USA and not even using them for pilot training.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 6:41:52 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm very late in 1944 in my slog against the Gorn I've tried many explorations of various historical and unhistorical tactics. I've also been using them in some pretty unorthodox roles. But I'd be very appreciative of any suggestions to get the most efficient use of them. They do spend an inordinate amount of time in the "body and fender shop". Thanks in advance for any suggestions or comments.

When I played the Downfall scenario I got recon on the entire Japanese Fleet being disbanded in port at Niigata on the north side of Japan. I put all of my B-29s on Port strike and sank about 100 ships and damaged the rest. That was soon after the game was released, so port strikes may have been reduced in effectiveness in subsequent patches.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 6:50:15 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm very late in 1944 in my slog against the Gorn I've tried many explorations of various historical and unhistorical tactics. I've also been using them in some pretty unorthodox roles. But I'd be very appreciative of any suggestions to get the most efficient use of them. They do spend an inordinate amount of time in the "body and fender shop". Thanks in advance for any suggestions or comments.


Don't send them beyond their normal range. Any type of bomber which regularly flies out beyond it's normal range is a candidate for being a hanger queen.

Remember that for determining when airframe maintenance is needed due to high airframe fatigue, the equation is (100)/(service rating). You can take that into account by pre-empting maintenance to a certain extent by resting. Flying beyond normal will increase airframe fatigue faster.

Alfred

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 7:17:30 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Try to base them on a railroad hex. When the maintenance days are too high, simply transfer the unit to another base and the longest maintenance day is now 2 days. Clark to Manila works fine. I don't know about loading them on a ship them unloading them. Transfer the units to another base and then take the fragments of disabled bombers and disband those into another unit. The losing unit now obtains good ones from the reserves. Give the units new pilots as needed. The units with all the disabled bombers can be at 100 percent rest to reduce fatigue on the pilots unless they are doing I & I.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 8:27:35 PM   
Ian R

 

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Status: offline 		1. Switch them all to night ops.

2. As Alfred says, restrict them to normal range.

3. Put them on 50% rest. Maybe 10% training, 40% rest.*

4. Send them in at 5000-7000 feet and bomb manpower to start fires.

5. As PP allow, give them inspiring non flying COs with decent skill ratings.

[* or rotate groups.)

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 8:32:41 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Daylight, at 2000 feet . . .

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/17/2020 10:15:54 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

1. Switch them all to night ops.

2. As Alfred says, restrict them to normal range.

3. Put them on 50% rest. Maybe 10% training, 40% rest.*

4. Send them in at 5000-7000 feet and bomb manpower to start fires.

5. As PP allow, give them inspiring non flying COs with decent skill ratings.

[* or rotate groups.)


#3 is a mistake. They should all fly, just leave sufficient rest periods of at least 5-7 days between missions.

Ideal altitude is 9k, this avoids balloons and the majority of IJ flak (which are 20-40mm guns). You can drop to 8k, but any lower lets the common 25mm guns start to fire.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 6:06:32 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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Status: offline 		Lowering fatigue does not take too long so far. I have to slow ops more due to maintenance and damage than fatigue {8K and normal range}. A mission at 28K brought the fatigue from 0 to 19 when 8K is somewhere from 5-8 fatigue. I usually stop ops at fatigue level over 10. With most of my 4Es {especially B-29s}, the fatigue will be 0 and 7 plane squadrons will only have 5 {or less} serviceable.

Will doubling the required AV support help maintain and repair? I don't think so, but as allies, I can scrounge up enough base forces to try it without too much trouble.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 9:29:36 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Will doubling the required AV support help maintain and repair? I don't think so, but as allies, I can scrounge up enough base forces to try it without too much trouble.


No developer has ever said that having excess AV does not help.

Alfred, can you comment in a manner other than a double negative?

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 9:32:22 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


3. Put them on 50% rest. Maybe 10% training, 40% rest.*


[* or rotate groups.)


#3 is a mistake. They should all fly, just leave sufficient rest periods of at least 5-7 days between missions.




I think it is a mistake to make more work for yourself than you need to


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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 2:06:12 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


3. Put them on 50% rest. Maybe 10% training, 40% rest.*


[* or rotate groups.)


#3 is a mistake. They should all fly, just leave sufficient rest periods of at least 5-7 days between missions.




I think it is a mistake to make more work for yourself than you need to



Using your method will induce fatigue and OPS losses needlessly. %rest even at 50 will not prevent the build up of fatigue and OPS losses on missions.

Only standing the groups down will


My way is also easier. Run an op, then just click the stand down button and come back in a week :)

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 2:18:39 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


3. Put them on 50% rest. Maybe 10% training, 40% rest.*


[* or rotate groups.)


#3 is a mistake. They should all fly, just leave sufficient rest periods of at least 5-7 days between missions.




I think it is a mistake to make more work for yourself than you need to



Using your method will induce fatigue and OPS losses needlessly. %rest even at 50 will not prevent the build up of fatigue and OPS losses on missions.

Only standing the groups down will


My way is also easier. Run an op, then just click the stand down button and come back in a week :)


Having seen your perfomance on the covid thread, that got it deleted, I infer-

1. You have never actually run your groups at 50% rest and actually have no idea about the massive reduction of ops losses this provides; and

2. You are being contrarian for the sake of it.

Do not respond to my posts. I'm not interested in talking to you.


< Message edited by Ian R -- 6/18/2020 2:19:24 PM >

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 3:45:02 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		I've doing discovery learning with the B-29s in my PBEM against Large_Slow_Target. Here's what I've learned so far, going into Dec'44.

- As Alfred said, keep them in normal range, which minimizes the value of the Marianas.

- Focus them on High Value Targets only. That's dependent on your game strategy of course, for me it was Oil until I could range the HI, then went to manpower. Couple of exceptions from time to time of course, such as opportunity long range mining missions to ambush returning IJN elements (low success probability).

- I've learned the hard way that night is your friend. The B-29s in daylight are still vulnerable to fighters in a PBEM, and they are too valuable to risk to a CAP trap or if fighter sweeps/escorts don't fly. A lesson learned the hard way. Altitude will vary with defenses, the lower the better, but Home Island AA can be deadly under 10k, even at night. Japanese night fighters are somewhat effective if they have radar, but they are few and far between.

- Keep your bomb groups together and keep in range of their Air HQs. AF8 or better.

- Rest often, by squadron or group. When you fly a mission, max effort, all squadrons fly, if possible to a single target. You should be able to fly a mission once a week or so with this method. Sometimes more depending on range to target and defenses. That also allows time to recon.

- You'll also be short airframes until you get the B-29-25. I've even disbanded incoming squadrons to garner additional aircraft. Keeping squadrons full strength when they go from 7 to 10 planes will be challenging. Adjust your tempo accordingly.

- Put your best bomber crews in your B-29s. Rotate out of other bombers to get guys with 80+ ground bombardment.

- Recon, recon recon. Blanket likely targets to spread your opponents defenses. By end of '44, you should have plenty of long range recon.

Hope this helps!

< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 6/18/2020 3:52:57 PM >

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 3:52:36 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


3. Put them on 50% rest. Maybe 10% training, 40% rest.*


[* or rotate groups.)


#3 is a mistake. They should all fly, just leave sufficient rest periods of at least 5-7 days between missions.




I think it is a mistake to make more work for yourself than you need to



Using your method will induce fatigue and OPS losses needlessly. %rest even at 50 will not prevent the build up of fatigue and OPS losses on missions.

Only standing the groups down will


My way is also easier. Run an op, then just click the stand down button and come back in a week :)


Having seen your perfomance on the covid thread, that got it deleted, I infer-

1. You have never actually run your groups at 50% rest and actually have no idea about the massive reduction of ops losses this provides; and

2. You are being contrarian for the sake of it.

Do not respond to my posts. I'm not interested in talking to you.



Setting your squadrons at 50% rest is definitely sub-optimal, because:

1. Pilots have their own fatigue rating. %rest applies to the planes in a squadron, not the pilots. This will lead to cases where you have high fatigue pilots flying missions (and thus ops losses).

2. Planes themselves have fatigue also. The same applies above.

The most effective way of reducing both is by completely standing groups down.

You say contrarian, I say that it's simply better advice. As for the Covid thread, that you attribute it being shut down to my "perfomance" tells me a great deal.

If you don't want to read my responses, there's a green button

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 3:53:38 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

Put your best bomber crews in your B-29s. Rotate out of other bombers to get guys with 80+ ground bombardment.


The other key variable will be EXP, for getting the planes flying in adverse weather or bad die rolls.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 6:17:06 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Check the individual pilots if you have the time. You can send any high fatigued pilots to the group reserve where they should rest.

Have a non-flying CO.

I would consider not disbanding squadrons but rather put some into training with limited bombers in that unit. Knowing that your replacements and reinforcements are limited, don't convert other squadrons to the B-29s.

Consider coordinating 4E bombing with your naval operations:

1) Before the naval operations hit the airfields in the immediate area.
2) During the naval operations, bomb the best available target in the area to reduce the effect of the enemies CAP.
3) After the naval operations bomb airfields to help protect any fleet elements in the area and/or ports to damage any ships hiding in port.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/18/2020 7:16:05 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


3. Put them on 50% rest. Maybe 10% training, 40% rest.*


[* or rotate groups.)


#3 is a mistake. They should all fly, just leave sufficient rest periods of at least 5-7 days between missions.




I think it is a mistake to make more work for yourself than you need to



Using your method will induce fatigue and OPS losses needlessly. %rest even at 50 will not prevent the build up of fatigue and OPS losses on missions.

Only standing the groups down will


My way is also easier. Run an op, then just click the stand down button and come back in a week :)


Having seen your perfomance on the covid thread, that got it deleted, I infer-

1. You have never actually run your groups at 50% rest and actually have no idea about the massive reduction of ops losses this provides; and

2. You are being contrarian for the sake of it.

Do not respond to my posts. I'm not interested in talking to you.



Setting your squadrons at 50% rest is definitely sub-optimal, because:

1. Pilots have their own fatigue rating. %rest applies to the planes in a squadron, not the pilots. This will lead to cases where you have high fatigue pilots flying missions (and thus ops losses).

2. Planes themselves have fatigue also. The same applies above.

The most effective way of reducing both is by completely standing groups down.

You say contrarian, I say that it's simply better advice. As for the Covid thread, that you attribute it being shut down to my "perfomance" tells me a great deal.

If you don't want to read my responses, there's a green button

I have to differ on your conclusions MM. I am using my plane fatigue to decide what % of the squadron to send on the strike (anything over 13 fatigue is set to rest) and the results are low ops losses and rested pilots. The AI stands down the most fatigued airframes and most fatigued pilots at the % I put in for rest.

I should mention that if there is bad weather at the departure base, I stand down the squadron and put the aircraft that have less than 10 fatigue on training. That muddies the figures on recovery of fatigue, but I have had periods where a squadron did as many as four days of ops in a row using the partial squadron method. Below 50% rest, the aircraft fatigue kept climbing gradually but over 50% rest, fatigue dropped or remained steady (repaired aircraft replacing the fatigued ones).

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/19/2020 12:44:35 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm very late in 1944 in my slog against the Gorn I've tried many explorations of various historical and unhistorical tactics. I've also been using them in some pretty unorthodox roles. But I'd be very appreciative of any suggestions to get the most efficient use of them. They do spend an inordinate amount of time in the "body and fender shop". Thanks in advance for any suggestions or comments.


What have you used them for to date, Steve? And have you excluded historical (aka LeMay) uses of the things-mainly nighttime 'manpower' firebombing industrial centers and cities?


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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/19/2020 12:52:28 AM   
bush

 

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Status: offline 		Keeping them to normal range means the Marianas are NOT viable bases to use to hit the mainland?

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/19/2020 2:43:54 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Status: offline 		1. Stand down if the target region is Thunderstorms or Heavy Rain (ops losses and effectiveness minimal so waste of time)
2. Recon n daylight to raise D/L of base
3. Have experienced pilots
4. Air HQ with good leader in any Super fort hex
5. Fly at night unless you are 100% certain of no fighter cover
6. For low flak bases at night 6k feet, large flak bases 15,000 - 20,000

Missions they are good for
1. Port mining
2. Port bombing
3. AF Bombing
4. Strategic Bombing - target specific industries e.g. engines or aircraft factories but don't waste your time until you can mass 500 or can go in during daylight
5. Strategic Bombing Manpower - until you can launch a 1,000 bomber raid don't waste your time

Note BEWARE of High Flak bases in high moonlight at 6k - 10k - you will get shredded I lost 10% of the bomber force in one night when I launched 1,600 B29's at Tokyo at 6k feet - that hurt BAD

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/19/2020 3:47:27 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

1. Port mining



As a JFB, I have never suffered any damage from port mining ever.


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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/19/2020 4:34:36 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		When you can cover the tanker fleets moving in the DEI and/or back to Japan, set them at 1000 feet with pilots trained in Low Nav . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/19/2020 4:41:02 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

1. Port mining



As a JFB, I have never suffered any damage from port mining ever.



I tried air-dropped mines way back, and IIRC you had to do it in daylight. Consequently, the Japanese could see the mines being dropped and promptly swept them. So I exposed my aircraft to CAP for nothing! Never did it again, and I suspect that other Allied players think it ineffective too.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/19/2020 4:46:04 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

1. Stand down if the target region is Thunderstorms or Heavy Rain (ops losses and effectiveness minimal so waste of time)
2. Recon n daylight to raise D/L of base
3. Have experienced pilots
4. Air HQ with good leader in any Super fort hex
5. Fly at night unless you are 100% certain of no fighter cover
6. For low flak bases at night 6k feet, large flak bases 15,000 - 20,000

Missions they are good for
1. Port mining
2. Port bombing
3. AF Bombing
4. Strategic Bombing - target specific industries e.g. engines or aircraft factories but don't waste your time until you can mass 500 or can go in during daylight
5. Strategic Bombing Manpower - until you can launch a 1,000 bomber raid don't waste your time

Note BEWARE of High Flak bases in high moonlight at 6k - 10k - you will get shredded I lost 10% of the bomber force in one night when I launched 1,600 B29's at Tokyo at 6k feet - that hurt BAD


I suspect the experienced pilots and good leaders (for the air group) are most important. On the few occasions when I got to play with B-29s I was appalled at how bad the experience and leadership was when the groups showed up.

Re: hitting bases with no CAP, I would add that adjoining bases with heavy CAP can have lots of spillover CAP into the base with none.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/20/2020 2:40:21 AM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm very late in 1944 in my slog against the Gorn I've tried many explorations of various historical and unhistorical tactics. I've also been using them in some pretty unorthodox roles. But I'd be very appreciative of any suggestions to get the most efficient use of them. They do spend an inordinate amount of time in the "body and fender shop". Thanks in advance for any suggestions or comments.


What have you used them for to date, Steve? And have you excluded historical (aka LeMay) uses of the things-mainly nighttime 'manpower' firebombing industrial centers and cities?


Actually I've mostly used them out of Oz, particularly to train up the crews. Since most B-29 crews arrive with pitiful training , I immediately take them away from those crews and give them whatever cast off stateside junk I have available and send them back to primary training. I then select some of the better crews that have been in Oz for a couple of years and give them the planes , which then spend a while bombing a training range (that is a Japanese held island well inside my lines that is a "self-guarding POW camp" that makes an excellent training range. The next step is to employ them in all kinds of attacks. Mass high altitude, mining, city attacks and in general try them at a little bit of everything. The idea is when the B-29-25s arrive , they can do the strategic bombing campaigns with highly trained crews. Those were the 1st B-29s that were equipped for night bombing. (Yes I know that the game can't tell the difference from night/day training , But I DO try to be accurate when I can.


I've found that they are very good at hitting bases well "behind the front line" where there is little chance of much opposition , but that DOES require sending them out at near their MAX range.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/20/2020 11:24:03 AM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Has anyone tried dropping mines at isolated bases to reduce the chance of subs delivering supplies?

Or for defensive minefields at newly captured bases? That might surprise a surface task force looking for trouble.

_____________________________

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 27
RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/20/2020 12:44:59 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Has anyone tried dropping mines at isolated bases to reduce the chance of subs delivering supplies?

Or for defensive minefields at newly captured bases? That might surprise a surface task force looking for trouble.

Haven't tried it, but someone told me that you cannot air drop mines at your own bases. That is a shame if the best stock of mines is the air-dropped ones.

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RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/20/2020 12:52:07 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm very late in 1944 in my slog against the Gorn I've tried many explorations of various historical and unhistorical tactics. I've also been using them in some pretty unorthodox roles. But I'd be very appreciative of any suggestions to get the most efficient use of them. They do spend an inordinate amount of time in the "body and fender shop". Thanks in advance for any suggestions or comments.

Park them in Great Falls. They are too precious to lose.







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Pax

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 29
RE: Any suggestions for best employment of B-29's? - 6/20/2020 1:11:55 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Has anyone tried dropping mines at isolated bases to reduce the chance of subs delivering supplies?

Or for defensive minefields at newly captured bases? That might surprise a surface task force looking for trouble.

Air dropping mines is a kind of City Attack, so you can only target enemy bases with a port.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 30
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