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Surving a start next to Arachnids?

 
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Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/17/2020 7:03:58 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Has anyone managed to survive a game where you started right next to Arachnid territory?

I've tried this planet twice now, and it seems pretty hopeless. I'm getting pretty much surrounded before I can build up an actual economy.
For a while, you can apparently just build a wall with your units and they won't attack you unless you attack them, but eventually they do seem to start attacking on their own, and at that point they just steamroll into my capital.
As if that wasn't bad enough, the spiders also cooperate with the nomads.



Edit:
If anyone wants to try this start:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/723199546762723328/Impossible_lava_spider_planet.se1
Spiders are to the east, nomads to the north. You can be diplomatic with the raiders in the south.
This might require the current beta version though, not sure.

< Message edited by Destragon -- 6/18/2020 3:43:56 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/17/2020 7:26:03 PM   
scottrossi

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/4/2020
Status: offline 		I just had a modest little nation get steamrolled by an arachnid zone, a nomad zone and a raider zone. I had held off the arachnids and the nomads with a wall of militia but when I explored into the raider territory, I didn't have enough forces to hold off all three and everything was occupied in 3 turns. I wish that they would also fight each other instead of just me. :(

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 2
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/17/2020 11:10:02 PM   
Kamelpov

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 2/22/2020
Status: offline 		Clearly in that screen you can push to the west and encircle kill the south

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RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/17/2020 11:15:25 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		That is flat terrain. While Infatry can entrech even on that (the only place they can not are Glaciers!), it is very little. And I am guessing they are only wearing thermal suits as armor, if that much?

So there goes the defense power of the Soldiers.

You could try falling back into the city. All major regime cities are on Ruins, the most defensible terrain there is.

But a restart is propably better. This are is just to dang flat!

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/17/2020 11:16:26 PM >

(in reply to Kamelpov)
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RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/18/2020 12:42:07 AM   
MC456

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 11/9/2018
Status: offline 		Get an MG Infantry Brigade. Attach either Artillery or Light Tanks or both. Let them run into your MGs while picking off what you can.

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/18/2020 4:39:32 AM   
achim123

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 11/17/2018
Status: offline 		I started with 2 Slavers and the Arachnid. My game looked the same as yours.
I researched automatic rifles and design a new infantry unit with these guns. Dont attack the arachnids, let them attack you, your defense is much better than your offense. Attack the nomads, they are much easier to kill and push the slowly back.

To be honest, i quit the game. I killed one slaver, and pushed back the other slaver and the spiders. After that, the next 2 KI opponents (minors) declare war on me and rushed in with all their troops. Same situation, as 25 turns before.
At this point the game was lost, sure i can handle the new AI attack too. But i have no econmy and just one town.
The mayor AI at this point is much much bigger and still growing. They will crush me 50 turn later. So i grab all the money and run away

The game was pretty fun! I loved my peoples and their demands "Give us more schools" "No, we dont wanne fight in your armys, because we dont trust you" ... There are slavers and big nasty spiders behind the city wall, would u please grab the new guns an start shooting? "No, i want my school first"

(in reply to MC456)
Post #: 6
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/18/2020 7:54:01 AM   
ramnblam

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 6/9/2020
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Damn that a rough start, if you can post the planet wouldn't mind giving it a crack.

(in reply to achim123)
Post #: 7
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/18/2020 3:43:03 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		By the way, does anyone know if Arachnids are soft or hard armor?

quote:

ORIGINAL: achim123
Dont attack the arachnids, let them attack you, your defense is much better than your offense.

Yeah, I tried to stay mainly defensive, but it didn't seem to work in my game, they just kept breaking through. The problem about spiders is that they are also better on attack than on defense.
I messed up the beginning build order for sure though. I'm not sure yet what's the best build order in that situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramnblam
Damn that a rough start, if you can post the planet wouldn't mind giving it a crack.

Do you mean mine or Achim123's?
Here's mine:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/723199546762723328/Impossible_lava_spider_planet.se1
Spiders are to the east, nomads to the north. You can be diplomatic with the raiders in the south.

(in reply to ramnblam)
Post #: 8
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/18/2020 10:29:28 PM   
EuchreJack

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		It would help to know if spiders were soft or hard armor. About to load now, my strategy is first counsel model design for at least uparmored recon, maybe they'll research APCs or tanks. Actually APCs would probably be better as then the I can make mechanized MG indy units. Peace out the Raiders, got too much fighting to do.

You folks know that you can declare peace with nomads, right? They're not open generally on the first turn, but they eventually are ok with it after a few turns. You have to put one unit per hex bordering them until that happens, as they have no respect for borders that are uncertain (default).

EDIT: Just got the "Dissatisfied Elements" event for the Raider territory. So I guess I'll take their city, since that event usually means an easy win.
EDIT2: Defeated Raiders and captured their zone. Honestly, the extra militia troops from the "Dissatisfied Elements" event" probably did not significantly impact conquest of this zone. Also, OP forgot to mention the Major Power on the doorstep (or I didn't notice until save loaded). They're hostile (but not at war) to me, but I imagine after taking over the Raiders they're probably rethinking that.
The save really isn't too bad, as the Freefolk settlements in the nearby area are probably the most populous Freefolk settlements I've ever seen. Some have 40,000 freefolk!

EDIT: I guess you will all have to believe that I've persevered versus the Spider horde, since I can not post a save. I figure that after conquering the Raiders, acquiring GR shield unit and GR infantry unit, and my mad dash for the Nomad settlements, there is enough to survive the Spider Scourge. Units researched include a light tank, unarmored Recon, and infantry with carbines (remember that MG Brigades are mostly infantry) that I'm sufficiently able to withstand their onslaught.

< Message edited by EuchreJack -- 6/19/2020 12:00:21 AM >

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 9
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/19/2020 12:04:00 AM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Pretty nice. What order did you build assets in?
Did you conquer the raider city before the spiders even attacked?

quote:

ORIGINAL: EuchreJack
You folks know that you can declare peace with nomads, right? They're not open generally on the first turn, but they eventually are ok with it after a few turns. You have to put one unit per hex bordering them until that happens, as they have no respect for borders that are uncertain (default).

I haven't seen nomads sending the static borders event yet. That's good to know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EuchreJack
Also, OP forgot to mention the Major Power on the doorstep

Yeah. They actually were surprisingly cooperative in my games. Even doing scientific cooperation despite being militarists.

(in reply to EuchreJack)
Post #: 10
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/19/2020 1:36:44 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Pretty nice. What order did you build assets in?
Did you conquer the raider city before the spiders even attacked?

quote:

ORIGINAL: EuchreJack
You folks know that you can declare peace with nomads, right? They're not open generally on the first turn, but they eventually are ok with it after a few turns. You have to put one unit per hex bordering them until that happens, as they have no respect for borders that are uncertain (default).

I haven't seen nomads sending the static borders event yet. That's good to know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EuchreJack
Also, OP forgot to mention the Major Power on the doorstep

Yeah. They actually were surprisingly cooperative in my games. Even doing scientific cooperation despite being militarists.

Miltiarist have 3 variants, dependign wich Faction is in power. Sounds like you got lucky and got Federalsits in power for a while.
But that deal and peace are about the only once they will make with you.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 11
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/19/2020 4:01:50 AM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Miltiarist have 3 variants, dependign wich Faction is in power. Sounds like you got lucky and got Federalsits in power for a while.

Nah, that's the thing. They had the expansionists with the majority of votes, but were super friendly anyway.
After a while, I got an event saying that the regime's politburo is meddling and tried to get their emperor to reduce their relations with me. I guess that regimes might act friendlier in the beginning of the game, to prevent very early major regime wars?

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 12
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/19/2020 4:10:59 AM   
EuchreJack

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Miltiarist have 3 variants, dependign wich Faction is in power. Sounds like you got lucky and got Federalsits in power for a while.

Nah, that's the thing. They had the expansionists with the majority of votes, but were super friendly anyway.
After a while, I got an event saying that the regime's politburo is meddling and tried to get their emperor to reduce their relations with me. I guess that regimes might act friendlier in the beginning of the game, to prevent very early major regime wars?


They hated my guts, but I was playing a Meritocracy. Since I went Enforcement/Fist, I needed something to not gimp my research.

Arachnids didn't attack in the 11 or so turns that I played, or even approach my borders. Dunno if my not going anywhere near them helped in that regard. I haven't gotten any Assets build, I instead built two MG Brigades and a Buggy Battalion.

EDIT: 17 turns in, the Non-Aggression treaty with the Arachnids is still holding. I guess if I don't go near them, they don't go aggressive maybe? I've been avoiding their border like plague. Protip: Get logistics figured out before going to war. Those Nomads are pretty weak actually, but I didn't get my food logistics situation fixed before the war. They can't march on an empty stomach. I mean, the Raider city plus my own is producing enough food, but actually getting it to the troops has taken a while to figure out. I had to switch the raider city from unincorporated to regular, then build a truck station between the cities (I don't nationalize the starting city's truck station, despite everyone swearing that is mandatory, personal preference), then build a truck station in the conquered city. And it took a while to figure it all out, so its been piecemeal.

< Message edited by EuchreJack -- 6/19/2020 5:28:33 AM >

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 13
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/19/2020 10:51:00 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Miltiarist have 3 variants, dependign wich Faction is in power. Sounds like you got lucky and got Federalsits in power for a while.

Nah, that's the thing. They had the expansionists with the majority of votes, but were super friendly anyway.
After a while, I got an event saying that the regime's politburo is meddling and tried to get their emperor to reduce their relations with me. I guess that regimes might act friendlier in the beginning of the game, to prevent very early major regime wars?

The Faction in power can (and will) change!

I started a game with 2 Majors. One kept flip-flopping between Isolationists and Federalsits.
The other I could never get decent data on, as their spy detection was to dang good!

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 14
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/19/2020 7:07:34 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EuchreJack

It would help to know if spiders were soft or hard armor. About to load now, my strategy is first counsel model design for at least uparmored recon, maybe they'll research APCs or tanks. Actually APCs would probably be better as then the I can make mechanized MG indy units. Peace out the Raiders, got too much fighting to do.


When attacking, go into the detail view and look wich attack Value is used - hard or soft.

I can only see the spider values from a YouTube video right now, but they got:
200/100 soft
50/25 hard
200 HP

I think buggies have often been mentioned as a option. It is "hard enough" to for it to use it's 50/25.
Note that the Calliber Calculation very likely does not apply to them, as this is propably a "Physical" attack.

Asuming Arachnids are soft targets, let us do some math. Comparasion buggy will use a 100/100/100 design rolls. Keep in mind those value will varry in your game:
100/200 Soft
50/50 Hard
100/150 HP

With the buggy as attacker, Spider rolls to hit:
25 vs 100
The buggy rolls to hit:
100 vs 200
So the buggy has like 50% hit chance, the Spider 25%. It is possible Melee units suffer another 50%*.

With the spider attacking. Spider Rolls
50 vs 150 for the Spider
Buggy Rolls:
200 vs 200

So I fully understand why people say the buggy is good vs Arachnids. Every value is in it's favor. If it counts as soft target.

*Chances not precise. With two differently sized dies like this, it becomes that annoying birthday paradox all over again!

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/19/2020 7:10:58 PM >

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RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 6/19/2020 9:01:29 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
The Faction in power can (and will) change!

I checked their factions multiple times. The regime was cooperative with me and had a "friends" attitude, despite expansionists having majority vote. Up until the point where I got that event saying that their politburo is trying to influence their emperor, which I found pretty interesting.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 16
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 12/23/2020 5:04:41 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		I cannot imagine humans would use these as beats of burden like the lore suggests..Most people are scared of tiny little ones.

_____________________________


(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 17
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 12/23/2020 6:11:54 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I cannot imagine humans would use these as beats of burden like the lore suggests..Most people are scared of tiny little ones.

That is nurture, not nature.

In other countries they eat them.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 18
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 12/23/2020 6:50:59 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		You bumped quite an old thread there.
I don't think the start is quite as bad as I originally thought. Just goes to show how important it is not to mess up your build order in the beginning, because it severely hinders your ability to get some early military for survival.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 19
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 12/23/2020 7:33:30 PM   
Daza99

 

Posts: 285
Joined: 8/1/2017
Status: offline 		Do alien creatures/Arachnids attack Ai Military units? is it something that can happen often or rarely?

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 20
RE: Surving a start next to Arachnids? - 12/29/2020 2:22:20 PM   
beyondwudge

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 12/22/2020
Status: offline 		Yes, they do attach AI military units. At least, I saw some fauna moving into the AI units and they would seem to retreat as if combat took place.

(in reply to Daza99)
Post #: 21
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