Supplies Through Enemy ZOC

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Suggestions and Feedback >> Supplies Through Enemy ZOC

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Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 1:21:34 AM

WeaverofBrokenThreads

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The more games I play the more I find situations where being cut off by supplies by a single enemy who doesn't really control the hex they ZOC'd to be more of a unrealistic hassle and game limitation.

I think an intelligent system should be implement to allow supplies through ZOC, at say, 30 or 40 AP per hex for roads, and completely cut off for railroads.

I don't think I need to explain why this won't severely impact the AI, but will provide significant gameplay improvements while not breaking the game's balance.

Vic, if you want me to elaborate, let me know, but I think you know what I mean.

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RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 1:33:37 AM

cspringer1234

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I would like for the troop to actually have to stay there, and the number of hexes of zone they can block / control be determined by their mobility / remaining AP.

< Message edited by cspringer1234 -- 6/23/2020 1:34:21 AM >

(in reply to WeaverofBrokenThreads)

Post #: 2

RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 1:43:21 PM

Ekaton

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I disagree. A single unit can block a road and stop supply flow entirely. Trucks are not designed to fight so they can't defend themselves properly, and they are too valuable to be used regardless of the very serious threat. In the game's post-apocalyptic setting infrastructure is very weak as well, worse than in the WWII Soviet Union, so blocking literally the only road carrying supplies to the front should be devastating. You could move around the roads, but chances are, post-apocalyptic wastes are too inhospitable, debris and terrain prevents movements, enemy patrols prevent moving, and overall the logistics officer doesn't want to lose his trucks like an idiot.

< Message edited by Ekaton -- 6/23/2020 1:45:27 PM >

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(in reply to cspringer1234)

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RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 1:47:02 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cspringer1234

I would like for the troop to actually have to stay there, and the number of hexes of zone they can block / control be determined by their mobility / remaining AP.

As I said so many other posts:
It does not mater if they are there anymore. It maters if your truck drivers know they are not there anymore!
Regular supply does not flow through a contested area like this.

The ZoC is strong enough, that a unit can hinder enemy formation movement. Making sure the truck drivers stay away? Easy compared to that.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/23/2020 1:48:23 PM >

(in reply to cspringer1234)

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RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 2:00:18 PM

cspringer1234

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: cspringer1234

I would like for the troop to actually have to stay there, and the number of hexes of zone they can block / control be determined by their mobility / remaining AP.

As I said so many other posts:
It does not mater if they are there anymore. It maters if your truck drivers know they are not there anymore!
Regular supply does not flow through a contested area like this.

The ZoC is strong enough, that a unit can hinder enemy formation movement. Making sure the truck drivers stay away? Easy compared to that.

I think I may have phrased what I wanted incorrectly. I actually want a system where without regular patrolling or traveled roads (by LIS is ok), all hexes revert to a fog of war / uncontrolled position. Not instantly, like after one turn, but over time. Perhaps the recon on the hex can decay over time, if it does not already.

On that note, I also dislike that spies get recon/visibility on so many hexes / troop movements. They seem grossly overpowered to me.

< Message edited by cspringer1234 -- 6/23/2020 2:01:26 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 5

RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 2:38:40 PM

WeaverofBrokenThreads

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The only person who made a decent argument is Ekaton. I agree that troops sitting on the road should completely block supply, no matter what. I didn't go into specifics about this, because if you have troops sitting on your road, you are in way more trouble than allowing a trickle of supply through ZOC can help.

The fact that enemy ZOC hinders movement is an archaic limitation of the gameplay system, it does not actually reflect the reality of the war at all. A single, unsupplied unit, can zone your entire capital in a single turn; yet it exerts enough power and influence to increase your AP costs? That is unrealistic and completely broken.

I am not asking for ZOC to make sense.

I am asking for supplies to flow through, in a limited manner, through enemy ZOC, so that situations where a single rambo biker cuts off your entire front line supply is not such a binary thing, after he crosses mountains, millions of miles away from his nearest supply road. Naturally, if a powerful force does it, they will take much more than a single hex, or even three hexes, and cut off supplies; that is just an organic development that will happen.

The problem with becoming too specific about whether troops are sitting on roads or not is that it will make the logistics calculations take longer than they already do. Even letting supplies through ZOC will likely significantly increase the computation times. But I'd rather wait longer than have to marvel how a bandit can cross my road, bugger off into the mountains, and my mindless, unintelligent truck drivers go 'Nah boss, can't do, it's not our ZOC, but I'll go down this side road that leads to nothing'.

Consider also the fact that enemy units do not play by the same rules. Empirical evidence suggests they do not pay AP for terrain penalties or your ZoC, so they can gobble up with impunity. Especially minors, who don't need supply. In that case, ZoC binarily blocking supply is just a punishment and a weird quirk that you have to deal with it in a nonsensical manner, like traffic lights and LIS side roads. But unlike traffic lights, holding back militia or troops -never- works. If the AI is dead set on crossing your road, it will do it somewhere. It will walk right past your militia and cross the road, and then run off.

(in reply to cspringer1234)

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RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 2:55:00 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WeaverofBrokenThreads

The fact that enemy ZOC hinders movement is an archaic limitation of the gameplay system, it does not actually reflect the reality of the war at all.

If you want they can give you a option to ignore the 10 AP extra cost, but instead get ambushed by the unit(s) emitting that zone?
Because that is what would happen if you do not take those extra AP to move slowly.

That is why units in hiding to not emit a ZoC - to stay hidden until the enemy walks right into them.

(in reply to WeaverofBrokenThreads)

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RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 3:10:19 PM

WeaverofBrokenThreads

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And if there are no units to ambush you? Units do not 'emit' ZoC. What units do and what ZoC is when there are no units there are two entirely different things rolled into one.

Imagine this instead: If your LIS trucks can 'emit' ZoC in the hex they are in, then supply should go through (in a limited manner, to maintain fairness, although it would still be unfair because the enemy is way more unfair) only if the trucks can take the ZoC back; IOW, if there are no other units nearby, already controlling that hex.

(in reply to zgrssd)

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RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 5:32:17 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WeaverofBrokenThreads

And if there are no units to ambush you? Units do not 'emit' ZoC.

If there are no units, they do not emit a ZOC and thus you do not spend a extra 10 AP.

It is still not your truck workers job to make sure there is no enemy. That is why you give some people guns.

(in reply to WeaverofBrokenThreads)

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RE: Supplies Through Enemy ZOC - 6/23/2020 5:58:30 PM

WeaverofBrokenThreads

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First of all, you are wrong. Second of all, you are walking back on your arguments. I am done.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10