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Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity"

 
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Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 11:43:26 AM   
Pi2repsilon

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 6/15/2020
Status: offline 		I just played a test game with a lot of radioactive areas, and realized what the game desperately needs.

Currently you need to click individual radioactive hexes while having the Zone tab active and looking in the bottom right corner to see the value of radioactivity in a single hex, and in large radioactive areas you need to inspect all important hexes to know how bad the situation is.

This is inconvenient and does not provide the player, at a glance, with the important information - namely, "how radioactively dangerous is this area (in general, or for the selected unit)"

HENCE, suggestion is adding a 7th map layer, shading the map in ever brighter shades of red depending on the strength of radiation:

1) If no unit is selected, all hexes are shading by radioactivity+building_rad_mod, no colour if <= 0
2) If a unit is selected, all hexes are shading by radioactivity+building_rad_mod+unit_rad_mod, no colour if <= 0 or unit unaffected by radiation
Post #: 1
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 4:32:01 PM   
Vhalor


Posts: 80
Joined: 6/11/2020
Status: offline 		I mean all that would really be needed is a mode that highlights all areas that are Radiation Level 4 or higher for the selected unit. Everything else is really of little to no concern.

_____________________________

"Pull and obtain wisdom. Push and invite ruin." ― Cult of LIS

(in reply to Pi2repsilon)
Post #: 2
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 4:53:32 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		I am pretty sure the size of the Radioactivity Symbol is supposed to tell you how dangerous a hex is? I have rarely played on worlds radiation, so I am less then sure.
But latest when you get into Combat Armors, radiation is not a real challenge anymore anyway. Unless you walk right into a nuclear strike crafter, or something like that. The game just needs a general rework in the area of Environmental protection:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4840108
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4840812

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/3/2020 4:54:27 PM >

(in reply to Vhalor)
Post #: 3
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 6:26:18 PM   
Pi2repsilon

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 6/15/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vhalor

I mean all that would really be needed is a mode that highlights all areas that are Radiation Level 4 or higher for the selected unit. Everything else is really of little to no concern.

I beg to differ.

Having played on an extremely radioactive heavily forested world with radioactive megacities and forests, where apart from the cluster of three zones running south-to-north from the southern border, all mostly mildly radioactive (1-3) but having some non-radioactive land, I had to move though huge areas of radiation 200-600 in all directions, with arachnids both to the east and the west and a major to the north, what you are suggesting would be an improvement on the current situation of having no radioactivity mapmode, but at the same time a missed opportunity.

The hits to readiness and morale from lowlevel radiation is not irrelevant when you are having to fight your way through such areas in the early game - at least not on hard difficulty; Later on with better tech and skilled commanders is a different matter.

Likewise, it makes a huge difference when waging war with fronts slowly pushing through the glowing remains of cities whether you are "merely" suffering level 4 radiation, 5, or 6. A huge difference. Being able to see from the map layer at a glance how radioactive areas are through colourcoding will allow the player to make informed strategic decisions about where to fight, where to move quickly, and perhaps, where to give up until they've got better tech.


(in reply to Vhalor)
Post #: 4
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 6:33:01 PM   
Pi2repsilon

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 6/15/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

I am pretty sure the size of the Radioactivity Symbol is supposed to tell you how dangerous a hex is? I have rarely played on worlds radiation, so I am less then sure.

It does. But slightly larger symbols in hexes is a useful indicator for how radioactive a specific hex you are inspecting is, but it is not a good visual indicator for the purpose of getting a strategic overview at a glance - which is what map layers are for.

quote:


But latest when you get into Combat Armors, radiation is not a real challenge anymore anyway. Unless you walk right into a nuclear strike crafter, or something like that. The game just needs a general rework in the area of Environmental protection:

That's not a good argument for not having a map layer for radioactivity, though; Radioactivity is something that is supposed to be important - the manual certainly devotes enough attention to the subject.

That it currently is mostly of importance in the early game, and furthermore isn't a concern on many worlds where nuclear war and accidents were scarce during world generation, can be an argument for reworking the mechanic or making it more prevalent - it doesn't change the need for a better UI representation of the radioactivity.



(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 5
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 6:52:15 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pi2repsilon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vhalor

I mean all that would really be needed is a mode that highlights all areas that are Radiation Level 4 or higher for the selected unit. Everything else is really of little to no concern.

I beg to differ.

Having played on an extremely radioactive heavily forested world with radioactive megacities and forests, where apart from the cluster of three zones running south-to-north from the southern border, all mostly mildly radioactive (1-3) but having some non-radioactive land, I had to move though huge areas of radiation 200-600 in all directions, with arachnids both to the east and the west and a major to the north, what you are suggesting would be an improvement on the current situation of having no radioactivity mapmode, but at the same time a missed opportunity.


"Back in my day, we had to fight through radiation and arachnids - both ways!"

Jokes aside:
We have to limit the shown colors somewhat. Ideally, it would fit into the Color Scheme used by the "Show Op. Log." Map Filter: Green, Yellow, Red, no color

It could go like this:
- Green: No penalty
- Yellow: Only Morale and Readiness Penalties
- Red: Lower end losses
- No color: Are you insane to send them there?

(in reply to Pi2repsilon)
Post #: 6
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 7:30:56 PM   
Pi2repsilon

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 6/15/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Jokes aside:
We have to limit the shown colors somewhat. Ideally, it would fit into the Color Scheme used by the "Show Op. Log." Map Filter: Green, Yellow, Red, no color

It could go like this:
- Green: No penalty
- Yellow: Only Morale and Readiness Penalties
- Red: Lower end losses
- No color: Are you insane to send them there?

Probably not a bad idea to keep the green/yellow for the level of radioactivity with no penalties for mere presence and only for combat; while the combat penalties are important, most of the time the player will only be interested in the question of casualties. So how about:

- Green: No penalty; safe
- Yellow: Only Morale and Readiness Penalties; safe for transit and guarding, penalties for war
- Orange: ~level 4; unsafe, but not all that bad
- Red: ~level 5; unsafe, don't linger here
- Bright red: ~level 6; Deadly to linger
- Imperial purple; ~level 7; MOVE IT!
- Black: ~level 8 and 9; Just die already

(All levels after modification for buildings, unit equipment, tech.)


< Message edited by Pi2repsilon -- 7/3/2020 7:50:42 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 7
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 8:30:54 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pi2repsilon

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Jokes aside:
We have to limit the shown colors somewhat. Ideally, it would fit into the Color Scheme used by the "Show Op. Log." Map Filter: Green, Yellow, Red, no color

It could go like this:
- Green: No penalty
- Yellow: Only Morale and Readiness Penalties
- Red: Lower end losses
- No color: Are you insane to send them there?

Probably not a bad idea to keep the green/yellow for the level of radioactivity with no penalties for mere presence and only for combat; while the combat penalties are important, most of the time the player will only be interested in the question of casualties. So how about:

- Green: No penalty; safe
- Yellow: Only Morale and Readiness Penalties; safe for transit and guarding, penalties for war
- Orange: ~level 4; unsafe, but not all that bad
- Red: ~level 5; unsafe, don't linger here
- Bright red: ~level 6; Deadly to linger
- Imperial purple; ~level 7; MOVE IT!
- Black: ~level 8 and 9; Just die already

(All levels after modification for buildings, unit equipment, tech.)


Most of those colors are not very distinct form one another. You got 4 shades between Yellow and Bright Red.

That is why I wanted to keep it to the colors already in use for the Op Logistics display:
Fewer colors are better.
And I already had one color (well, the transparancy setting) I had no actuall use for in this case.

(in reply to Pi2repsilon)
Post #: 8
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 8:39:11 PM   
Vhalor


Posts: 80
Joined: 6/11/2020
Status: offline 		I mean I only play on extreme and while I encountered some very high radiation planets where combat armor alone would do nothing at all, I still never felt that the penalties, aside from people just dropping dead, ever had any meaningful impact. Which only adds to the point of environmental dangers not being very impactful right now...

And while even more detailed map modes, radiation related or otherwise, may be nice, it also means more work for Vic, which in turn makes it less likely to be implemented at all.

_____________________________

"Pull and obtain wisdom. Push and invite ruin." ― Cult of LIS

(in reply to Pi2repsilon)
Post #: 9
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/3/2020 9:24:53 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vhalor

I mean I only play on extreme and while I encountered some very high radiation planets where combat armor alone would do nothing at all, I still never felt that the penalties, aside from people just dropping dead, ever had any meaningful impact. Which only adds to the point of environmental dangers not being very impactful right now...

And while even more detailed map modes, radiation related or otherwise, may be nice, it also means more work for Vic, which in turn makes it less likely to be implemented at all.

The basics are already there, with the Operational Logistics Filter.
In the area of Computation and Code complexity, the Operational Logistics is propably the worse of the two.
The only question is different models differign RAD Resistance (wich can go from vehicles/Battledress to unarmored infanry).

Should we use the lowest value or the average for the entire unit?
I tend towards the minimum. Maybe a mixed color coding (2 colors/hex) to compare both the minimum and maximum value?

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/3/2020 9:26:04 PM >

(in reply to Vhalor)
Post #: 10
RE: Suggestion: Add map layer "radioactivity" - 7/10/2020 10:22:52 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Will have sort of delivered on this request in beta-6

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Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 11
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