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RE: Naval and Defense News - 6/19/2020 8:03:09 PM   
KLAB


Posts: 355
Joined: 2/27/2007
Status: offline 		https://rg.ru/2020/06/18/pancir-sm-s-novejshimi-mini-raketami-zamechen-na-repeticii-parada.html
https://tass.com/defense/1169407

Image © Gavriil Grigorov/TASS

Pantsir SM with a new missile configuration of an unidentified short range SAM apparently for UAV's.
Down to 10 normal missiles but an additional 8 mini SAM,'s.
Too few details for my inevitable DB3K request but interesting.
K
quote:

ORIGINAL: Filitch


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

The troubled pantsir s1 in the news again. Going to degrade its capabilities in a test to see if a drone can take it out. With normal settings it's effective in CMO.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2020/06/19/libya_a_catastrophe_for_russias_pantsir_s1_air_defense_system_115394.html


It's a rather one-sided article. There are 54 downed Turkay-made UAVs vs 6 or 9 destroyed Pantsirs. One Pantsir costs about $14 millons, and Bayraktar TB2 costs about $5 millions. As for me - Pantsirs won. This is only arithmetic. We will not remember about necessary of layered AD systems, right tactic, quality of personnel training and so on.




< Message edited by KLAB -- 7/2/2020 12:31:46 AM >

(in reply to Filitch)
Post #: 4321
RE: Naval and Defense News - 6/22/2020 10:33:31 AM   
Blast33


Posts: 404
Joined: 12/31/2018
From: Above and beyond
Status: offline 		Nice surprise idea for you Iranian scenario: A 3rd of Khordad on a ship!
It was a test fire but interestingly, one missile looks to be EO/IR guided and was launched!
Will see more of in the future I think..
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/27255/Iran_Test_fires_Naval_Khordad_Air_Defense_System




Attachment (1)

(in reply to KLAB)
Post #: 4322
RE: Naval and Defense News - 6/22/2020 1:41:33 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

It's a rather one-sided article. There are 54 downed Turkay-made UAVs vs 6 or 9 destroyed Pantsirs. One Pantsir costs about $14 millons, and Bayraktar TB2 costs about $5 millions. As for me - Pantsirs won. This is only arithmetic. We will not remember about necessary of layered AD systems, right tactic, quality of personnel training and so on.


That's one way to look at it. Goodness knows what is happening in North Africa, but there are a couple of other factors. Accepting those kill numbers, that’s an exchange ratio of 2.14 in favor of the Pantsir in terms of money. But that does not include the dollar value of crew losses in human terms plus their valuable "training". An UAV is unmanned and designed to accept losses. It also does not factor in the loss of what the destroyed system was covering. Additionally, the Pantsir is on defense not offense. It is designed for area and self-defense. A 2.14 ratio should be a lot better on the defensive. Maybe those Panstirs were operated by ill trained crews. Maybe it's not the right system to the export to some countries. Given those numbers, the system in the hands of non-Russian crews can shoot down 6 UAVs before losing its life at a cost of 18 million.

Kevin

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to KLAB)
Post #: 4323
RE: Naval and Defense News - 6/29/2020 6:38:23 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline 		For any Cold War aficionados here's a Soviet propaganda film on EXCERCISE OKEAN 70, incorrectly labelled as Operation Ocean by Periscope Films. It is narrated in Russian but with an English voice over courtesy of the Central Intelligence Agency:

OPERATION OKEAN

And here's an article on the same exercise by Norman Polmar over at the Naval Historical Foundation:

Analyizing Exercise Okean

-C

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4324
RE: Naval and Defense News - 6/30/2020 12:29:02 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Well there you go ... you can always throw money at a problem:

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2020/06/29/us-could-buy-turkeys-russia-made-s-400-under-senate-proposal/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2006.30.20&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief

Essay on anti-ship missiles and strategy:

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/how-useful-is-classical-maritime-strategy-in-an-age-of-long-range-anti-ship-missiles/


< Message edited by kevinkins -- 6/30/2020 12:48:37 PM >

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 4325
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/1/2020 7:24:34 AM   
NorthernFox

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 7/31/2013
Status: offline 		https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-korea-to-develop-supersonic-asm-for-future-kf-x-fighter-aircraft

some basic informations of south korea's supersonic ASM

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4326
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/1/2020 10:46:51 AM   
redcoat


Posts: 1035
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
Australia's 2020 Defence Strategic Update and 2020 Force Structure Plan:

https://www.defence.gov.au/StrategicUpdate-2020/

_____________________________

“‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”

George Orwell, 1984

(in reply to NorthernFox)
Post #: 4327
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/2/2020 12:02:35 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		More on air defence and training vs drones and cruise missiles:

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2020/07/02/drone-era_warfare_shows_the_operational_limits_of_air_defense_systems_115430.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2007.02.20&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief

And on the other side of the equation:

https://www.flightglobal.com/military-uavs/record-number-of-uav-shoot-downs-prompt-new-usaf-tactics-and-countermeasure-pod/138908.article

< Message edited by kevinkins -- 7/2/2020 12:22:17 PM >

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to redcoat)
Post #: 4328
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/9/2020 12:57:43 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Not sure what to make of this novel, but some may want to look into it:

https://www.armytimes.com/2020/07/08/twitter-novel-to-tell-story-of-atomic-army/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2007.09.20&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4329
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/11/2020 2:11:27 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Wonder how bellicose this will be?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-10/u-s-plans-south-china-sea-announcement-with-tensions-escalating

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4330
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/12/2020 7:41:14 PM   
Doctorwarthog

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 4/15/2017
Status: offline 		USS Bonhomme Richard on fire. I hope ship and crew will be ok.

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4331
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/13/2020 3:23:37 AM   
KnightHawk75

 

Posts: 1450
Joined: 11/15/2018
Status: offline
quote:

USS Bonhomme Richard on fire. I hope ship and crew will be ok.

As for the crew - 17 in hospital but all in stable condition.

Rear Adm Philip Sobeck:
-Cleared compartments and have just found fire location/source
-Lower cargo hold where the fire started Cooling hull with the tugs while interior fight goes on
-Ship's crew involved in firefighting efforts
-Class "A" fire: debris, etc. are fueling fire "Ash heap" fire, "nothing toxic" inside fueling fire
-Explosion was from "overpressurization" of a compartment
-1 millon gallons of fuel onboard, below area of heat source and not affected
-No ordnance onboard All crew accounted for "She will sail again"

-"ship will sail again"


(in reply to Doctorwarthog)
Post #: 4332
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/14/2020 10:42:35 PM   
redcoat


Posts: 1035
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
The Japanese Ministry of Defense has published its annual white paper: Defense of Japan 2020.

https://www.mod.go.jp/e/publ/w_paper/index.html




_____________________________

“‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”

George Orwell, 1984

(in reply to KnightHawk75)
Post #: 4333
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/15/2020 3:15:21 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		https://news.trust.org/item/20200715122556-a24j0

Ships on fire now in Iran.

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to redcoat)
Post #: 4334
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/15/2020 4:58:40 PM   
Broncepulido

 

Posts: 385
Joined: 9/26/2013
Status: offline 		Very interesting Russian Wikipedia entry on "Uspekh" targeting complex (1966 on), found casually when looking for Tu-95RTs Bear-D units and bases (You can use Google Translate). With details of operational procedures (Tu-95RTs operating in pairs, perhaps for triangulation) and great peacetime loses. Also down on the page links to other Soviet/Russian targeting and EW systems: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%A6-1_%C2%AB%D0%A3%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%85%C2%BB

< Message edited by Broncepulido -- 7/16/2020 5:16:06 PM >

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4335
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/16/2020 11:35:50 AM   
redcoat


Posts: 1035
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
The RAF is to trial the use of unmanned aircraft from the decks of the RN’s QE-class aircraft carriers.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/raf-to-trial-unmanned-aircraft-from-royal-navy-carriers

_____________________________

“‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”

George Orwell, 1984

(in reply to Broncepulido)
Post #: 4336
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/17/2020 2:11:57 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Nice article on the debate re: US Army long range missiles taking on SAM sites.

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/07/army-says-long-range-missiles-will-help-air-force-not-compete/

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to redcoat)
Post #: 4337
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/17/2020 3:52:52 PM   
redcoat


Posts: 1035
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
Team Tempest have added a new interactive 3D model of the Tempest to the RAF website:

https://www.raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/team-tempest/tempest/


There is also a 3D model of LANCA on the site:

https://www.raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/team-tempest/lanca/




_____________________________

“‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”

George Orwell, 1984

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4338
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/18/2020 12:47:44 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Might be an important strategic step years from now.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2020/7/16/rare-earth-processing-plant-opens-in-colorado

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to redcoat)
Post #: 4339
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/19/2020 8:25:53 AM   
anlgzl

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/18/2018
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Do you have any plan to add UAV Aksungur for DB3K

Thanks in advance

https://www.tusas.com/uploads/2020/01/aksungur-unmanned-aerial-vehicle.PDF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqsDiuYASOI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGJPqMieoX0

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4340
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/20/2020 4:46:54 PM   
Broncepulido

 

Posts: 385
Joined: 9/26/2013
Status: offline 		Some news the last months on this issue.

USS Roosevelt DDG-80 (Arleigh Burke Flight IIA) has replaced in Rota USS Carney DDG-64 (Flight I), and as the other BMD destroyers  there deployed, has replaced her aft Phalanx mount with a SeaRAM missile mount (at least from March 2020), but not mentioned this time in any news report. But you can see here clearly the SeaRAM mount, Apparently is the first Flight IIA with a SeaRAM mount:

https://news.usni.org/2020/03/23/uss-roosevelt-leaves-for-homeport-shift-to-spain

https://www.navy.mil/view_imagex.asp?id=316851&t=1

Another three DDGs have or are scheduled to have SeaRAM installed besides the original Rota four. From the FY20 budget papers:

“ Installations include the Rota DDG SeaRAM installs on DDGs 51,64,71,75,78,79,80 and 84”

From here, in the comments:

https://news.usni.org/2020/03/23/uss-roosevelt-leaves-for-homeport-shift-to-spain

And also 5"/62 Mk45 Mod 4 replacing the previous 5"/54 gun (see the flat panels new turret).

< Message edited by Broncepulido -- 7/20/2020 11:11:37 PM >

(in reply to anlgzl)
Post #: 4341
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/22/2020 12:06:20 AM   
Hongjian

 

Posts: 834
Joined: 1/2/2015
Status: offline 		Some major rumormongering (supported by reliable leakers and public RFP on China's military procurement sites) going around in the Chinese internet. Potentially, there is already a new follow on class to the Type 075 LHD planned: The Type 076, which interestingly is designed to become an EMALS equipped drone-carrier/CVL in addition to retaining its well-deck. A summary of all known information here:

https://www.meta-defense.fr/en/2020/07/21/China-is-starting-the-construction-of-a-new-assault-aircraft-door/


(in reply to Broncepulido)
Post #: 4342
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/29/2020 4:20:29 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I thought the sub guys would find this interesting:

https://www.techexplorist.com/detailed-submarine-map-arctic-ocean/34098/

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to Hongjian)
Post #: 4343
RE: Naval and Defense News - 7/30/2020 7:56:36 PM   
x2oop

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 2/7/2019
Status: offline 		Video from Iranian "Great Prophet" wargames:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlXExxOE6BE

Probably the most interesting thing which they showed was launch of missiles which were buried under ground.

https://twitter.com/Hajizadeh_org/status/1288398979592593408

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4344
RE: Naval and Defense News - 8/1/2020 2:48:07 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Big news on the EX program. Seems to be really expanding:

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15ex-could-replace-strike-eagle-fleet-in-addition-to-older-c-d-models-usaf-says/

"Boeing posits a “rough order of magnitude” purchase of 200 airplanes, but the “most probable quantity” would be 144 fighters."

If I recall, the numbers were around 12 last year. I guess that never really made sense.

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to x2oop)
Post #: 4345
RE: Naval and Defense News - 8/8/2020 8:15:46 AM   
x2oop

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 2/7/2019
Status: offline 		Iskander's ability to do some insane maneuvers captured on the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK4jXZAMgxY&feature=youtu.be&t=177

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4346
RE: Naval and Defense News - 8/12/2020 12:18:46 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		And now the case against the EX

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/08/nine-reasons-congress-should-nix-air-forces-f-15ex-purchase/167603/

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to x2oop)
Post #: 4347
RE: Naval and Defense News - 8/18/2020 12:25:46 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Fairly long and detailed:

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/08/u-s-navys-zumwalt-class-destroyers-enter-the-2020s/

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4348
RE: Naval and Defense News - 8/19/2020 1:23:48 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Command in the news today:

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/08/darpa-wants-wargame-ai-to-never-fight-fair/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2008.19.20&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief

Don't think is a reprint. But could be.

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4349
RE: Naval and Defense News - 8/21/2020 11:41:49 AM   
Sybaris


Posts: 55
Joined: 3/14/2015
Status: offline 		Chinese underground sub base photo

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/asia/china-submarine-underground-base-satellite-photo-intl-hnk-scli/index.html

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4350
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