RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 3:58:55 AM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

The Aussies can put together some nice units of 105s pretty early in the game. I have hit these before at Moresby and elsewhere, causing me no end of trouble.

Set up a nice defense in the northern jungle of Burma with the 1st Burma, the Brit 18th, and the Aussie units to keep the trail to Lashio open as long as possible to funnel some select units into China. You should be able to retreat out of there without being cut off. The 1st Burma can play rear-guard once you decide to retreat. I'm not sure why more AFBs don't do this, but I am not very familiar with all the problems of playing the allies since I have never done it.

Looks like I can cobble together a pretty strong Chinese Expeditionary Force. The reinforcement cue of likely units. It would be nice to get some heavier AA...and at least the starting AA unit in Burma I hope will find its way there.

Never mind Kweiyang, you are pulling a real Greyjoy re-invention of the word queue!

Maybe he wants to play billyards or pool.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 121

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 4:22:35 AM

Lowpe

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We aim to entertain!

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 122

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 5:01:57 AM

Alfred

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

China starts with about 125k supply in bases with Chungking base suffering spoilage. Important to fix that day 1, and make sure the supplies go to stockpile bases with as little wastage as possible from transit...

Unnecessary concerns.

No supply spoilage wastage for first week of a scenario nor for supply transit between bases.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 123

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 6:36:42 AM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
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Lowpe, can you clarify what you mean when you say that the Type 89A vehicles will be recycled? Does the game scrap vehicle pools after a time and turn them into heavy industry points or something along those lines?

Thanks!

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 124

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 9:36:56 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Festung Lashio is a pretty key point to my Burma Defense.

How do you plan to supply it when Rangoon is gone?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
No supply spoilage wastage for first week of a scenario nor for supply transit between bases.

Alfred

Woah, this one is new to me. Is it hardcoded for every scenario out there? Might explain some of the strange results in my spoilage tests

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 7/17/2020 9:39:00 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 125

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 10:30:44 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Lowpe, can you clarify what you mean when you say that the Type 89A vehicles will be recycled? Does the game scrap vehicle pools after a time and turn them into heavy industry points or something along those lines?

Thanks!

It has been a long time since I looked at and monitored this. In my game against Tiemanj (Turnaround?) I actually tracked it. I think.

I probably should re-read that AAR, and relearn all the things I forgot. So many excellent contributors to the AAR including Alfred, and developers chiming in on the air model, Japanese coastal forts. I just can't bring myself to do it, because with a few simple fixes I probably could have made it deep into 1945.

Basically the obsolete device goes back into the pool and at some point either gets automatically upgraded into the new device or broken down into HI. There is more to it than that, I think existing demand plays a factor and there is probably some kind of excess pool calculation that goes on...so the idea is to upgrade devices for Japan as quickly as you can if you are going to adopt the new device. It doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen. Some devices like the 40mm AA can be kept and produced the whole game by turning off upgrades on some units.

The Japanese production model is very well thought out, and you have enough control over it to do amazing things prioritizing Japanese device production as the very means of production burn to the ground all around you.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/17/2020 10:35:40 AM >

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 126

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 10:36:33 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

China starts with about 125k supply in bases with Chungking base suffering spoilage. Important to fix that day 1, and make sure the supplies go to stockpile bases with as little wastage as possible from transit...

Unnecessary concerns.

No supply spoilage wastage for first week of a scenario nor for supply transit between bases.

Alfred

Quite interesting. Thank you.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 127

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 10:39:18 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Really good discussion here on some tips and tricks! Excellent so far

Of course, we are 4 pages into this AAR so far, and not a shot fired yet.....

Kind of worrying Japan according to emails.

That we are on page 4 without a shot. I remember one AAR going like 17 pages before a shot fired though.

Be a bit disconcerting if Scout1 has to bow out. I don't know what his irl challenge is right now, but it cropped up after starting the game and is temporary, but his communications and excitement for the game seems undiminished and we are looking for a first turn sometime next week perhaps as early as the weekend.

There are so many unexplored options for the Allies to purse in 1941 and 1942...I feel that AFB's really have dropped the ball and too often resorted to conventional thinking and have let Japan get away with far too much. But perhaps I am not factoring in enough the starting situation: poor devices, poor leadership, poor morale and poor experience. I think I am though. Time will tell.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/17/2020 11:12:17 AM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 128

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 10:58:45 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Festung Lashio is a pretty key point to my Burma Defense.

How do you plan to supply it when Rangoon is gone?

Hopefully supplies from Paoshan will filter there. The slightly better route is to air drop supplies into Bhamo or Lashio itself. Lashio is almost impossible to LRCAP to stop transports.

And in this new base happy game by AndyMac there is northwest Kachin Hills base. It is a dot, so can store up to 5K, and be released from stockpiling to feed adjacent Lashio with supply every now and then (I think it will send supplies 3 times a week). However, it also means the Festung might retreat there out of the game if it is a valid supply route...so extreme caution must be used lest it royally screw you. I want the festung units to either not retreat to retreat to Paoshan. Free Chinese units will of course go north.

Myitkyina needs to be held in a Festung manner too. Letting restricted troops protect India...India is a pretty good place to fight for the Allies in 1942. Like China, not an easy place, but a good place.

If Japan goes for an amphibious invasion of India, putting the KB in the Bay of Bengal, I will of course invade the Marianas & the Jimas no matter what I have to steam thru to get there. I will have some restricted units prepping for this from day 1 too.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/17/2020 11:02:53 AM >

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 129

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 11:03:14 AM

DesertWolf101

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quote:

If Japan goes for an amphibious invasion of India, putting the KB in the Bay of Bengal, I will of course invade the Marianas no matter what I have to steam thru to get there. I will have some restricted units prepping for this from day 1 too.

That's part of the reason why I am not planning to use the KB in my invasion of India.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 130

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 11:14:52 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

That's part of the reason why I am not planning to use the KB in my invasion of India.

You have already done it, right?

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 131

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 11:22:28 AM

DesertWolf101

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

That's part of the reason why I am not planning to use the KB in my invasion of India.

You have already done it, right?

It's happening right now and it is a very tense time for me. As you know I started the AAR when the game was already a few months in, but I am only a week or so behind with it now - been trying hard to catch up to the game time. Could be a defining moment for the rest of my campaign!

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 7/17/2020 11:23:08 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 132

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 11:24:34 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

That's part of the reason why I am not planning to use the KB in my invasion of India.

You have already done it, right?

It's happening right now and it is a very tense time for me. As you know I started the AAR when the game was already a few months in, but I am only a week or so behind with it now - been trying hard to catch up to the game time. Could be a defining moment for the rest of my campaign!

It is a bold move in a scenario 1 game. Good luck!

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 133

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 11:54:34 AM

Lowpe

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In Andy's updated Scenario two, there is a ton of small light industry centers all over. It will be interesting to see how this turns out, especially in places like China, but even here in the Pacific it has game implications.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 134

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 11:54:45 AM

Encircled

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Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

The Aussies can put together some nice units of 105s pretty early in the game. I have hit these before at Moresby and elsewhere, causing me no end of trouble.

Set up a nice defense in the northern jungle of Burma with the 1st Burma, the Brit 18th, and the Aussie units to keep the trail to Lashio open as long as possible to funnel some select units into China. You should be able to retreat out of there without being cut off. The 1st Burma can play rear-guard once you decide to retreat. I'm not sure why more AFBs don't do this, but I am not very familiar with all the problems of playing the allies since I have never done it.

I think it depends how quickly the IJN sort out the DEI and the Philipines to be honest.

If he piles through that quickly, then priority has to be defending India, rather than defending Burma

But the huge plus point of the Japanese player attacking India is that he has to use the KB to cover it, and that gives you options everywhere else!

_____________________________

(in reply to Alamander)

Post #: 135

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 11:57:13 AM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

The Aussies can put together some nice units of 105s pretty early in the game. I have hit these before at Moresby and elsewhere, causing me no end of trouble.

Set up a nice defense in the northern jungle of Burma with the 1st Burma, the Brit 18th, and the Aussie units to keep the trail to Lashio open as long as possible to funnel some select units into China. You should be able to retreat out of there without being cut off. The 1st Burma can play rear-guard once you decide to retreat. I'm not sure why more AFBs don't do this, but I am not very familiar with all the problems of playing the allies since I have never done it.

I think it depends how quickly the IJN sort out the DEI and the Philipines to be honest.

If he piles through that quickly, then priority has to be defending India, rather than defending Burma

But the huge plus point of the Japanese player attacking India is that he has to use the KB to cover it, and that gives you options everywhere else!

I agree, plus he needs to steam roll China.

Also, if the Allies fritter away the ABDA fleet in the SRA opening the door to India so to speak.

And the priority, numero uno for the Allies, is defending China...a lot of Burma and India and SRA and even Pacific strategies flow from that premise. At least in this game. It is the holistic zen Allied game plan!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/17/2020 12:01:25 PM >

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 136

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 12:15:40 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Festung Lashio is a pretty key point to my Burma Defense.

How do you plan to supply it when Rangoon is gone?

Hopefully supplies from Paoshan will filter there. The slightly better route is to air drop supplies into Bhamo or Lashio itself. Lashio is almost impossible to LRCAP to stop transports.

...

If Japan goes for an amphibious invasion of India, putting the KB in the Bay of Bengal, I will of course invade the Marianas & the Jimas no matter what I have to steam thru to get there. I will have some restricted units prepping for this from day 1 too.

Why would you want to waste Chinese supply on Burma roads for India protection? In my book Burma is usually a lost cause and a place for delaying action at most to let mobile Chinese march into India. After that India is protected nicely from that direction by terrain and lack of supply on the Burma side, as well as RR fast reaction possibilities on the India side. Hardly any JFB ventures into India from here, they all choose amphibious route and for a good reason.
Edit: I remember some AARs where Allies overcommited to Burma defense only to be encircled a bit later by Calcutta landings and massacred.

IMO Japan is perfectly capable of letting you into Marianas in mid 42 and then isolating and squishing you in late 42 when they are back from Bengal. They still have a lot of time and a capable carrier arm, while you don't. Not to mention distances to home bases.

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 7/17/2020 12:20:50 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 137

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 12:31:39 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Festung Lashio is a pretty key point to my Burma Defense.

How do you plan to supply it when Rangoon is gone?

Hopefully supplies from Paoshan will filter there. The slightly better route is to air drop supplies into Bhamo or Lashio itself. Lashio is almost impossible to LRCAP to stop transports.

...

If Japan goes for an amphibious invasion of India, putting the KB in the Bay of Bengal, I will of course invade the Marianas & the Jimas no matter what I have to steam thru to get there. I will have some restricted units prepping for this from day 1 too.

Why would you want to waste Chinese supply on Burma roads for India protection? In my book Burma is usually a lost cause and a place for delaying action at most to let mobile Chinese march into India. After that India is protected nicely from that direction by terrain and lack of supply on the Burma side, as well as RR fast reaction possibilities on the India side. Hardly any JFB ventures into India from here, they all choose amphibious route and for a good reason.
Edit: I remember some AARs where Allies overcommited to Burma defense only to be encircled a bit later by Calcutta landings and massacred.

IMO Japan is perfectly capable of letting you into Marianas in mid 42 and then isolating and squishing you in late 42 when they are back from Bengal. They still have a lot of time and a capable carrier arm, while you don't. Not to mention distances to home bases.

But the annoyance factor will be huge. Also the Japanese will not then be doing other things. Plus, a Japanese player might over react.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 138

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 12:58:23 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

The Aussies can put together some nice units of 105s pretty early in the game. I have hit these before at Moresby and elsewhere, causing me no end of trouble.

Set up a nice defense in the northern jungle of Burma with the 1st Burma, the Brit 18th, and the Aussie units to keep the trail to Lashio open as long as possible to funnel some select units into China. You should be able to retreat out of there without being cut off. The 1st Burma can play rear-guard once you decide to retreat. I'm not sure why more AFBs don't do this, but I am not very familiar with all the problems of playing the allies since I have never done it.

I think it depends how quickly the IJN sort out the DEI and the Philipines to be honest.

If he piles through that quickly, then priority has to be defending India, rather than defending Burma

But the huge plus point of the Japanese player attacking India is that he has to use the KB to cover it, and that gives you options everywhere else!

I agree, plus he needs to steam roll China.

Also, if the Allies fritter away the ABDA fleet in the SRA opening the door to India so to speak.

And the priority, numero uno for the Allies, is defending China...a lot of Burma and India and SRA and even Pacific strategies flow from that premise. At least in this game. It is the holistic zen Allied game plan!

As I'm on the verge of losing Chungking in Nov 1942 in my game v Rader, I can heartily agree with this!

_____________________________

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 139

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 1:01:20 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Festung Lashio is a pretty key point to my Burma Defense.

How do you plan to supply it when Rangoon is gone?

Hopefully supplies from Paoshan will filter there. The slightly better route is to air drop supplies into Bhamo or Lashio itself. Lashio is almost impossible to LRCAP to stop transports.

...

If Japan goes for an amphibious invasion of India, putting the KB in the Bay of Bengal, I will of course invade the Marianas & the Jimas no matter what I have to steam thru to get there. I will have some restricted units prepping for this from day 1 too.

Why would you want to waste Chinese supply on Burma roads for India protection? In my book Burma is usually a lost cause and a place for delaying action at most to let mobile Chinese march into India. After that India is protected nicely from that direction by terrain and lack of supply on the Burma side, as well as RR fast reaction possibilities on the India side. Hardly any JFB ventures into India from here, they all choose amphibious route and for a good reason.
Edit: I remember some AARs where Allies overcommited to Burma defense only to be encircled a bit later by Calcutta landings and massacred.

IMO Japan is perfectly capable of letting you into Marianas in mid 42 and then isolating and squishing you in late 42 when they are back from Bengal. They still have a lot of time and a capable carrier arm, while you don't. Not to mention distances to home bases.

Its a balance I think

I'm too cautius in my current game, because I was too aggressive in the game before that!

But it depends entirely in 1942 on what the Japanese player is aiming for.

If he's going for a 1942 win, then he's got to knock out China or Oz or India and sink the US carriers.

Surviving 1942 is the aim of all Allied players first and foremost I feel.

_____________________________

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 140

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 8:12:54 PM

Alamander

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Joined: 4/29/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Why would you want to waste Chinese supply on Burma roads for India protection? In my book Burma is usually a lost cause and a place for delaying action at most to let mobile Chinese march into India.

This is sort of what I am saying: not a festung at Lashio, but a holding action in the jungle to keep the trail to Lashio open for as long as possible and then a retreat into India with the 1st Burma as the rear-guard to keep the Brit 18th and the Aussie units from getting too beat up.

You can park the 1st Burma in Rangoon for a little while to prevent easy capture by one of the broken down 58th div. regiments, and then strategic move them out of there to the dot base in the jungle and then move to hold the line at the edge of the jungle. Just be sure to get out of Rangoon in time. Mike did a very nice job of this in our current game. He strat-moved the 1st Burma out of Rangoon, literally the day before I was about to cut them off with para-drops and movement across the river into Burma.

The Brit 18th and the Aussies can hold Lashio and and then race for the Indian border once the 1st Burma gets into too much trouble. I would love it if my opponent built a fortress at Lahio and had the whole of the Burmese force drawing supply from China. In fact, I would probably just leave them there to keep drawing supply through all of 1942.

< Message edited by Alamander -- 7/17/2020 8:16:58 PM >

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 141

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 8:21:40 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Using your supply draw, you could end up with lots of supply at Lashio. Then you can release it and some of it will make it to the Chinese border. Maybe even by sending the Burma HQ there and then move HQs into Paoshan. Just have the next Chinese bases stockpile supplies so Paoshan does not fill up with Chinese supplies.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Alamander)

Post #: 142

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 8:25:33 PM

Alamander

Posts: 147
Joined: 4/29/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Using your supply draw, you could end up with lots of supply at Lashio. Then you can release it and some of it will make it to the Chinese border. Maybe even by sending the Burma HQ there and then move HQs into Paoshan. Just have the next Chinese bases stockpile supplies so Paoshan does not fill up with Chinese supplies.

Yeah... keep the flow of supplies open as long as possible, but don't reverse the flow to have some festival, or festung, or some such at Lashio.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 143

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 8:44:59 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Festung Lashio is a pretty key point to my Burma Defense.

How do you plan to supply it when Rangoon is gone?

Hopefully supplies from Paoshan will filter there. The slightly better route is to air drop supplies into Bhamo or Lashio itself. Lashio is almost impossible to LRCAP to stop transports.

...

If Japan goes for an amphibious invasion of India, putting the KB in the Bay of Bengal, I will of course invade the Marianas & the Jimas no matter what I have to steam thru to get there. I will have some restricted units prepping for this from day 1 too.

Why would you want to waste Chinese supply on Burma roads for India protection? In my book Burma is usually a lost cause and a place for delaying action at most to let mobile Chinese march into India. After that India is protected nicely from that direction by terrain and lack of supply on the Burma side, as well as RR fast reaction possibilities on the India side. Hardly any JFB ventures into India from here, they all choose amphibious route and for a good reason.
Edit: I remember some AARs where Allies overcommited to Burma defense only to be encircled a bit later by Calcutta landings and massacred.

IMO Japan is perfectly capable of letting you into Marianas in mid 42 and then isolating and squishing you in late 42 when they are back from Bengal. They still have a lot of time and a capable carrier arm, while you don't. Not to mention distances to home bases.

I am not protecting Burma, I am protecting Lashio, which in turn protects China.

I want to encourage an amphibious operation into India.

I am not committed to a Burma defense. I am committed to a China defense. I don't plan on letting my Lashio defense get encircled, in fact I plan on having them retreat to Paoshan primarily and China.

I have squished my fair share of early Allied aggressiveness in the Pacific or Kuriles in 1942. And if I was trying to hold onto that territory then what you say is true. That is not my purpose.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 144

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 8:47:44 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

As I'm on the verge of losing Chungking in Nov 1942 in my game v Rader, I can heartily agree with this!

Yes, China gets very difficult after July 1942. Sooner if Japan commits all their tank regiments and artillery there aggressively from Manchuko.

Do you still control the Kunming to Paoshan mountain area?

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 145

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 8:53:37 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

This is sort of what I am saying: not a festung at Lashio, but a holding action in the jungle to keep the trail to Lashio open for as long as possible and then a retreat into India with the 1st Burma as the rear-guard to keep the Brit 18th and the Aussie units from getting too beat up.

You can park the 1st Burma in Rangoon for a little while to prevent easy capture by one of the broken down 58th div. regiments, and then strategic move them out of there to the dot base in the jungle and then move to hold the line at the edge of the jungle. Just be sure to get out of Rangoon in time. Mike did a very nice job of this in our current game. He strat-moved the 1st Burma out of Rangoon, literally the day before I was about to cut them off with para-drops and movement across the river into Burma.

The Brit 18th and the Aussies can hold Lashio and and then race for the Indian border once the 1st Burma gets into too much trouble. I would love it if my opponent built a fortress at Lahio and had the whole of the Burmese force drawing supply from China. In fact, I would probably just leave them there to keep drawing supply through all of 1942.

That is fine advice, and there are a lot of ways to solve problems in this game.

The 18th and Aussies won't be going to Burma. At least not in 1942.

If my fortress Lashio is bypassed, and the road to Paoshan remains open from Lashio and Ledo stays in Allied hands I will be very happy too.

(in reply to Alamander)

Post #: 146

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 9:00:49 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Using your supply draw, you could end up with lots of supply at Lashio. Then you can release it and some of it will make it to the Chinese border. Maybe even by sending the Burma HQ there and then move HQs into Paoshan. Just have the next Chinese bases stockpile supplies so Paoshan does not fill up with Chinese supplies.

Yeah... keep the flow of supplies open as long as possible, but don't reverse the flow to have some festival, or festung, or some such at Lashio.

Stockpile supplies at Paoshan, max draw at Lashio - maybe even with an HQ there. Maybe even an air HQ for air support as well. Then, once Lashio is full, stockpile the supplies at Lashio, fill all bases leading to Lashio with supplies, then stockpile supplies at all non-Chinese bases leading to Lashio and then unstockpile supplies at Paoshan and increase the demand while all Chinese bases leading to Paoshan are stockpiling supplies. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

It might only be a few thousand more supplies that way but every bit helps - and they are not air lifted with those attendant problems.

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(in reply to Alamander)

Post #: 147

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 9:02:31 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Using your supply draw, you could end up with lots of supply at Lashio. Then you can release it and some of it will make it to the Chinese border. Maybe even by sending the Burma HQ there and then move HQs into Paoshan. Just have the next Chinese bases stockpile supplies so Paoshan does not fill up with Chinese supplies.

Sending supply from Lashio to Paoshan (or the other way) is very efficient by Chinese standards, only 1% less efficient than sending supplies from Paoshan to Tsuyung. Lashio does have a max draw of 500 supplies currently. with Paoshan and Tsuyung 300, and Kunming 400. Kweiyang has a very generous supply draw...but I don't want to be feeding it from Paoshan.

Burma Command is just a HQc, but it will go to Lashio too.

I plan on really working the stockpile and supply settings in this theater.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 148

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 9:40:26 PM

GetAssista

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Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I am not protecting Burma, I am protecting Lashio, which in turn protects China.

I want to encourage an amphibious operation into India.

I am not committed to a Burma defense. I am committed to a China defense. I don't plan on letting my Lashio defense get encircled, in fact I plan on having them retreat to Paoshan primarily and China.

Ok, understood. Then it begs a different question. Bear with me please, this is the last time I would touch this topic :)

Why would you defend China so forward? You make it exceedingly easy for Japan to bring supplies to your location via RR while at the same time you would still waste your China supply traversing the dirt roads. There is nothing important in Lashio specifically to guard, you mentioned the danger of retreat into the trap yourself, and neither Lashio nor Myitkyina help China with supply in any way. Hardly any JFB goes into China from Burma direction because of those supply issues and the need for unrestricted units. If you want to keep Japan from this venture anyway, just dig in around Paoshan with all the mountains, river crossings and shorter supply routes. Not to mention Lashio needs unrestricted units you can use elsewhere (if you have the common pp houserule in place), while Paoshan you can defend with the host of restricted Chinese.

Edit: Note, it's all OK if you just want to have a battle in the unconventional location as the main reason, and want to see how Japan will deal with it

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 7/17/2020 9:48:33 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 149

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 7/17/2020 10:38:52 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

As I'm on the verge of losing Chungking in Nov 1942 in my game v Rader, I can heartily agree with this!

Yes, China gets very difficult after July 1942. Sooner if Japan commits all their tank regiments and artillery there aggressively from Manchuko.

Do you still control the Kunming to Paoshan mountain area?

Got some supplied Chinese units blocking the road, and some Chindits and Chinese trying to retake Paoshan, but I'm not confident that I'll be able to do that and hold.

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(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 150

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