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Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 3:22:54 PM

Flicker

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From: Rocket City USA
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I'm in the middle of a game and I inadvertently upgraded some USN Wickes class destroyers to DDLR instead of DE as I wanted (I did upgrade some to the desired class). I searched the forum, but couldn't find any help. I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists), have no idea what file (or where it is) contains the ship data, and I generally do not mess with game files or even install mods.

Is there any way to change the upgraded DDLR destroyers to DE destroyers? Or do I just accept that I made a mistake and drive on?

Post #: 1

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 3:29:00 PM

Bo Rearguard

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Sorry. But if my experience is anything to go by it's permanent. The editor can't alter a ship's make-up after the game has started. Although you can use it to alter aircraft type arrival dates.

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Post #: 2

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 3:54:54 PM

Bo Rearguard

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists),

It's usually found in the Scenario (Scen) file.

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Post #: 3

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 4:10:58 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

I'm in the middle of a game and I inadvertently upgraded some USN Wickes class destroyers to DDLR instead of DE as I wanted (I did upgrade some to the desired class). I searched the forum, but couldn't find any help. I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists), have no idea what file (or where it is) contains the ship data, and I generally do not mess with game files or even install mods.

Is there any way to change the upgraded DDLR destroyers to DE destroyers? Or do I just accept that I made a mistake and drive on?

Are you playing a standard scenario (numbered 1-15) or a modded one?

If it is standard scenario, you can't change the ship class data files and save the edits.

If it is a modded scenario, there is a way to reverse the upgrade by creating (temporarily) a conversion option for the DDLR to DE configuration. If what you are talking about was itself a conversion, rather than an upgrade, it may be as simple as checking a couple of "convert from" and "convert to" boxes in the ship class. editor.

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Post #: 4

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 4:14:57 PM

Flicker

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From: Rocket City USA
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Thank you both for responding. I'll just accept my mistake and drive on.

Bo, thanks for the file location. Ian, I play standard games; thanks for the comment concurring with what Bo said.

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Post #: 5

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 4:17:45 PM

Bo Rearguard

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A lot of players have clamored for an in-game editor in the past. But even if possible, it likely would have raised major trust issues in a PBEM game.

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Post #: 6

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 4:55:37 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard

A lot of players have clamored for an in-game editor in the past. But even if possible, it likely would have raised major trust issues in a PBEM game.

Absolutely no way there will ever be an ingame editor to edit saved files. Having one completely destroys the PBEM security measures.

Alfred

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)

Post #: 7

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 5:04:01 PM

Ian R

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How about one that doesn't work on PBEM files for all the people who play the AI?

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Post #: 8

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 5:54:35 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

How about one that doesn't work on PBEM files for all the people who play the AI?

Not possible to make that distinction.

Alfred

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 9

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 5:55:22 PM

rockmedic109

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I keep two saves for the current turn, one for the previous day, two weekly {each day divisible by 7--one for one week and another for two weeks ago}, and another for the first of the month. I overwrite old saves in the same slots.

Not really an editor, but a way of going back if I made a recent mistake. I can't remember using a prior save in my current game, but I used it when I was first learning the game.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 10

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 6:40:28 PM

RangerJoe

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I save every turn, when the folder fills up I just move them and keep saving. I am only playing the AI - boy does it lose!

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Post #: 11

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 8:28:24 PM

rockmedic109

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The other way to do it is to think up a story for it. Including proper punishment of the miscreant who ordered or failed to order the problem.

I am in mid '44 and have two or more subs damaged for each successful attack. Every time one gets damaged I imagine Representative May getting kidnapped and ending up on a sub as it goes out on patrol and as soon as it returns, getting dragged over to the next boat leaving.

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Post #: 12

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 9:14:27 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

The other way to do it is to think up a story for it. Including proper punishment of the miscreant who ordered or failed to order the problem.

I am in mid '44 and have two or more subs damaged for each successful attack. Every time one gets damaged I imagine Representative May getting kidnapped and ending up on a sub as it goes out on patrol and as soon as it returns, getting dragged over to the next boat leaving.

Is that a reference to Andrew May, who blabbed about the US subs being able to go deeper than the IJ depth charges?

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Post #: 13

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 9:30:18 PM

rockmedic109

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Yep.

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Post #: 14

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 9:33:48 PM

Bo Rearguard

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From: Basement of the Alamo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Is that a reference to Andrew May, who blabbed about the US subs being able to go deeper than the IJ depth charges?

Yup. Also the same House Member May who was a shameless and corrupt war profiteer.

Early in the war, he linked up with businessmen and brothers Murray and Henry Garsson. The Garsson brothers had no prior experience with arms manufacturing. But they were eager to cash in on lucrative military contracts. Congressman May lobbied army officials on their behalf. Despite their lack of experience, the Garsson brothers received some military contracts. For his efforts, Congressman May received large cash payments from the brothers.

Unfortunately, their inexperience and rush to fill the orders for mortar shells led to disaster. Rounds shipped out with defective fuses, which detonated prematurely. 38 Army soldiers lost their lives in such premature detonations.

Then after that and the depth charge scandal he gets all of nine months in prison and a presidential pardon.

Jerk.

< Message edited by Bo Rearguard -- 7/27/2020 9:38:49 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 15

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 10:07:56 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Is that a reference to Andrew May, who blabbed about the US subs being able to go deeper than the IJ depth charges?

Yup. Also the same House Member May who was a shameless and corrupt war profiteer.

Early in the war, he linked up with businessmen and brothers Murray and Henry Garsson. The Garsson brothers had no prior experience with arms manufacturing. But they were eager to cash in on lucrative military contracts. Congressman May lobbied army officials on their behalf. Despite their lack of experience, the Garsson brothers received some military contracts. For his efforts, Congressman May received large cash payments from the brothers.

Unfortunately, their inexperience and rush to fill the orders for mortar shells led to disaster. Rounds shipped out with defective fuses, which detonated prematurely. 38 Army soldiers lost their lives in such premature detonations.

Then after that and the depth charge scandal he gets all of nine months in prison and a presidential pardon.

Jerk.

He should have been shot.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)

Post #: 16

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/27/2020 11:58:36 PM

Kull

Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

I'm in the middle of a game and I inadvertently upgraded some USN Wickes class destroyers to DDLR instead of DE as I wanted (I did upgrade some to the desired class). I searched the forum, but couldn't find any help. I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists), have no idea what file (or where it is) contains the ship data, and I generally do not mess with game files or even install mods.

Is there any way to change the upgraded DDLR destroyers to DE destroyers? Or do I just accept that I made a mistake and drive on?

It's not as bad as you think. Wickes DE starts off with more ASW, but in May 1943 the Wickes DDLR upgrades to the DDLR-H, and THOSE guys have Hedgehogs (which the DEs never get). And they also get the Mk7, which packs 3x the punch of the DE's Mk9s (see attachment).

Assuming that "better ASW" is your goal, in the long run you're better off with the DDLR-H!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kull -- 7/27/2020 11:59:11 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 12:25:44 AM

Lowpe

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Kull,

Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks.

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Post #: 18

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 12:33:00 AM

Kull

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From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kull,

Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks.

"Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not.

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AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

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Post #: 19

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 1:15:39 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kull,

Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks.

"Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not.

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

(in reply to Kull)

Post #: 20

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 3:11:53 AM

Kull

Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kull,

Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks.

"Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not.

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Don't get me started on these guys. Peerless though they are, there is almost no difference between the Fletcher HB and LB classes - of the 12 database entries (six each), the 11/42 LB has one more Oerlikon than the HB.....and that is IT! The upgrade dates, endurance, armament, you name it, all are identical - including the bmp files. Which is the real rub.

Because "LB" has the "low bridge" profile while "HB" has the "high bridge" profile, meaning that the only way to differentiate them is by appearance, but alas, we can't do that. To be fair, the visible difference - at the AE scale - is just a few pixels. And to his everlasting credit, Big B has actually created shipsides for each one (see attached), but absent modding new bmp file numbers into the database, you can't put both in game at the same time, even with a foldered system.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 21

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 4:19:12 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kull,

Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks.

"Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not.

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Don't get me started on these guys. Peerless though they are, there is almost no difference between the Fletcher HB and LB classes - of the 12 database entries (six each), the 11/42 LB has one more Oerlikon than the HB.....and that is IT! The upgrade dates, endurance, armament, you name it, all are identical - including the bmp files. Which is the real rub.

Because "LB" has the "low bridge" profile while "HB" has the "high bridge" profile, meaning that the only way to differentiate them is by appearance, but alas, we can't do that. To be fair, the visible difference - at the AE scale - is just a few pixels. And to his everlasting credit, Big B has actually created shipsides for each one (see attached), but absent modding new bmp file numbers into the database, you can't put both in game at the same time, even with a foldered system.

For those interested in the devs' views on LB v HB Fletchers, you can read this thread.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3531486&mpage=1&key=Fletcher�

Alfred

(in reply to Kull)

Post #: 22

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 12:04:31 PM

LargeSlowTarget

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Pfff.... noobs.

Here is one for the real experts

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

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Post #: 23

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 2:10:46 PM

Ian R

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From: Cammeraygal Country
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One of those is not like the others, i.e. not 'high angle' DP.

Edit: I can't be bothered looking it up, but one of the pre-war DD classes was armed with it. It may be the
Porters that had SP mounts that restricted use.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 7/28/2020 2:16:55 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 2:30:14 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Pfff.... noobs.

Here is one for the real experts :

I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.

I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)

Post #: 25

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 3:38:59 PM

Zorch

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Pfff.... noobs.

Here is one for the real experts :

I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.

I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.

Welcome to old age.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 26

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 4:57:44 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Pfff.... noobs.

Here is one for the real experts :

I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.

I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.

EBR is Extended Ballistic Range.
OP is (I think) something like Ordinary Pattern (original design, no enhancements)
Not sure what the S stands for - Special I guess.

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Post #: 27

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 6:02:10 PM

RangerJoe

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I thought that "E" meant enclosed, as in a turret while "O" stood for open, with no turret. Look at the pictures . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

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Post #: 28

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 6:33:33 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Pfff.... noobs.

Here is one for the real experts :

I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.

I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.

EBR is Extended Ballistic Range.
OP is (I think) something like Ordinary Pattern (original design, no enhancements)
Not sure what the S stands for - Special I guess.

They refer to the mount type.

BR = Base Ring
E = Enclosed
o = Open
P = Pedestal
S = Single
(S) = Shielded

Hence in the game:

EBR = Enclosed Base Rings
OBR = Open Base Rings
OP = Open Pedestal
OP(S) = Open Pedestal Shielded
SEBR = Enclosed Base Rings Single
SP EBR = Single Purpose Enclosed Base Ring

Alfred

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 29

RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake - 7/28/2020 7:09:40 PM

Flicker

Posts: 229
Joined: 11/24/2011
From: Rocket City USA
Status: offline

Kull - thanks for the comment about Wickes DDLR turning into Hedgehoggers. You're right that I want them for ASW - their job is to escort convoys from the West Coast to Pearl, with the occasional ASW TF mission. LOL now I want to turn all of my Wickes into DDLRs. The ship upgrade paths are rabbit holes I haven't explored in all my years of gameplay. Message to the Japanese AI - 'timeout' while I learn more about the game.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 30