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Logistics question - 7/1/2020 1:23:15 AM

Poliorcetes

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Joined: 11/5/2004
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So if you build a truck station along your route, it seems to create a 2nd delivery "zone" rather then expanding the initial delivery zone.
Is this how you are supposed to do things? ie. I assume deliveries from 1st truck zone get handed off to 2nd zone and then to troops.

Post #: 1

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 1:26:48 AM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
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From: Jacksonville NC
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That is how I understand it, supply bases EXTEND the range of truck stops but you can only have one supply base helping a single truck stop, the supply base can help multiple truck stops but a truck stop can only use one supply base as I understand it.

(in reply to Poliorcetes)

Post #: 2

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 2:08:28 AM

Tssha

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Joined: 3/25/2013
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Truck Stations, not Supply Bases. And...I guess that's how it works. Use the bottleneck overlay to see areas where you might be lacking in Logistics Points and supplies aren't getting to the front. If you can't get all the supplies to the next truck station along the road, you'll be in trouble.

Huh. Thinking about it, train stations might fill that niche pretty well.

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 3

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 2:27:04 AM

lloydster4

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Joined: 6/19/2020
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There are 3 ways to extend a truck route

1) Upgrade the dirt roads to sealed roads. This reduces AP cost from 10/hex to 7/hex.
2) Build a supply base. At level 1, this adds 50 AP to the route.
3) Build a truck station. As you said, supplies will be delivered to that station, and then passed along.

To an extent, you can also extend a truck route through "brute force." Logistics points start to drop after 100% of AP is used, and go to zero at 200% of AP. The farthest edges of truck station's range is a small fraction of the initial points, but if the initial points are large enough you can squeeze out a bit more "effective range." Not cost effective, usually.

(in reply to Tssha)

Post #: 4

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 2:50:31 AM

zgrssd

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Each Truck stop sends out a number of lines, into all 6 cardinal direcitons.
Lines from different stops can of course overlap. In taht case, their capacities add for that part.

(in reply to lloydster4)

Post #: 5

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 2:54:53 AM

Destragon

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Joined: 6/8/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Poliorcetes

So if you build a truck station along your route, it seems to create a 2nd delivery "zone" rather then expanding the initial delivery zone.
Is this how you are supposed to do things? ie. I assume deliveries from 1st truck zone get handed off to 2nd zone and then to troops.

Yeah, it doesn't matter which truck station does what. The only thing that matters is how many logistics points are on a tile. If you want to deliver something to some place which requires 200 logistics points, then you will need 200 logistics points on every tile from SHQ to destination.
The logistics system is like a pipe network and the amount of logistics points on a tile tells you how thick the pipe is on the tile. If it's not thick enough somewhere, then you have a bottleneck and aren't able to get all your supplies through the pipe at once.

(in reply to Poliorcetes)

Post #: 6

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 3:14:45 AM

lloydster4

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Joined: 6/19/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon
The logistics system is like a pipe network and the amount of logistics points on a tile tells you how thick the pipe is on the tile. If it's not thick enough somewhere, then you have a bottleneck and aren't able to get all your supplies through the pipe at once.

This is probably the best explanation I've heard so far. Thank you.

(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 7

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 5:02:46 AM

Poliorcetes

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/5/2004
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Yeah, the logistics is not easy to understand. And its not easy to trouble shoot. You just get numbers, which you then have to translate into delivery percent (ie. 200, then 180 on next hex, 160. but I then have to sort out what percent that number is of the initial AP, which only then tells me what % logistics gets delivered. Plus factoring in the unit's own delivery logistics reach. FML).
There is no easy way to figure out how much logistics each unit is using.

Prime example is my entire logistic network collapsed this turn. Turns out I had built a power station at some point, when I had surplus oil. But I built 2 light tank units. And my oil went down some, which I figured was the tanks moving. And its not easy to figure out what is going on in the Empire. The SHQ is prominently displayed but that is not actually a summary of your supply situation, just a summary of your UNIT supply situation. To figure out what is actually being made/consumed you have to pull up the Item list for each zone. Why isn't there a single summary screen where I can see wtf is going on through my entire empire?

Logistics is the MAJOR obstacle to overcome in this game. But the tools to analyze and deal with it kinda suck. Most games like this would have a summary screen where you could easily spot impending problems or would have warnings ("not enough fuel for logistics system next turn, Danger Will Robinson!").
This is a super cool game but man do they need to improve the user experience.

(in reply to lloydster4)

Post #: 8

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 12:03:04 PM

zgrssd

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Poliorcetes

Yeah, the logistics is not easy to understand. And its not easy to trouble shoot. You just get numbers, which you then have to translate into delivery percent (ie. 200, then 180 on next hex, 160. but I then have to sort out what percent that number is of the initial AP, which only then tells me what % logistics gets delivered. Plus factoring in the unit's own delivery logistics reach. FML).
There is no easy way to figure out how much logistics each unit is using.

I am still not sure why people have such issues with this System?

400-400 = 0
400+400 = 800
800-400 = 400

That is the entire math behind:
- how a bottleneck develops
- how you fix it
- and why that fixes it

(in reply to Poliorcetes)

Post #: 9

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 6:37:21 PM

Zyphtan

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I like the system alot. Once you figure out how it works it all makes sense. There is a screen to see what is going on in the mgn tab at the top in assets you can see on the right there is an expand tab there and you can check zone by zone.

Thinking about it like a pipe I feel is a pretty good analogy. You need the entire LP from SHQ to where ever it needs to go.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10

RE: Logistics question - 7/1/2020 6:50:45 PM

sw30

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From: San Francisco, CA
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Because it makes no sense on a logistics point of view. The way things are set up, It's beneficial to set up supply right next to your city. currently, it's like a mound of sand, or water because it is additive. it doesn't matter where your sources are, as long as the sum of the logistics hit the right points, everything is fine.

Making supply dumps and and having trucks ferry dumps forward should be a thing, that would require strategic placement of supply dumps and defending them. The description even talks about it as an "extension". Many games abstract it as range, but that's not particularly realistic either.

Whatever the end goal of the logistics system is, the current implementation makes no intuitive sense.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 11

RE: Logistics question - 8/8/2020 7:57:23 PM

Zyphtan

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I think the logistics system is fun. A more realistic implication would be awesome. Having to store supplies closer or building warehouses or bases to have supplies closer too the front lines. Each tile is 200km it isn't realistic to bring supplies all way from a city 1000-2000km away.

Got to remember it is a game though, there needs to be a balance between realism and the fun factor. I don't think people want this game to turn into a supply management sim. I think Vic is going in the right direction with the game. I enjoy it more and more with each update.

(in reply to sw30)

Post #: 12

RE: Logistics question - 8/8/2020 8:12:24 PM

demiare

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Joined: 6/20/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zyphtan
Each tile is 200km it isn't realistic to bring supplies all way from a city 1000-2000km away.

In a week? No. In a season?

IMHO more details will make logistic system too complicated like it was before pull points - each turn I was forced to fine-tuning my logistic network, even during peace time (absolutely not fun - as IMHO our directors should fulfill all civilian economy needs or why I need them at all?

).

Again my IMHO - now logistics is much more satisfying. It still important during a war but not burden you if everything is going fine or when you're at peace.

(in reply to Zyphtan)

Post #: 13

RE: Logistics question - 8/9/2020 12:58:55 PM

Zyphtan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zyphtan
Each tile is 200km it isn't realistic to bring supplies all way from a city 1000-2000km away.

In a week? No. In a season?

IMHO more details will make logistic system too complicated like it was before pull points - each turn I was forced to fine-tuning my logistic network, even during peace time (absolutely not fun - as IMHO our directors should fulfill all civilian economy needs or why I need them at all? ).

Again my IMHO - now logistics is much more satisfying. It still important during a war but not burden you if everything is going fine or when you're at peace.

Forgot that each turn is like 2 months lol I havn't needed to spend to much time with the system once I know where I need it and usually only need to change it when I get a new zone or changing fronts. The new pull system is interesting. Havnt used it enough to have any though on it. Havn't build it big enough to really see anything.

(in reply to demiare)

Post #: 14