Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord

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Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord

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Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 4:52:28 AM

SeattleKCD

Posts: 21
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline

I have been experimenting with the game since the 1.08 patch came out, particularly from the Allied point of view. Trying to figure out paratroop and invasion since the manual is pretty spotty on this. Mostly I have been messing with the beginning of the 1943 scenario and trying to repeat Operation Husky.

In real life the allies invaded on July 9th 1943 and completed the conquest of Sicily by Aug 17 1943, that's just slightly longer than 2 turns in Warplan. There is no way to do this in Warplan as far as I can see. 1st turn won't get much further than 1 hex inland from beaches, do to stacking bottlenecks, you probably won't be able to get more than 1/2 the island by 2nd turn of the invasion.

Also looking at Overlord the Normandy invasion, the beaches comprise 2 hexes in Warplan, 1 both US beaches, the other all 3 UK & Canadian beaches. The US should be able to land at a minimum of 1 corps (4th, 29th, and 1st Inf division), plus paratroops (82nd and 101st), this organization wise was 2 corps. Brits should be able to land at least a corps plus paras in their hex.

I think there are 2 things broken (or at least slightly broken) here, stacking and how much you can do in 2 weeks. I am mostly OK with 1 unit per hex, but if that is going to be the case, you should be able to put an army in 1 hex. Really what should happen is you should be able to stack 2 corps, 1 HQ, and 1-2 air units in one hex. At 25m per hex all of NY city and it's many of it's suburbs would fit, that's like 25 million people. I think 100,000 troops could fit/fight inside that (2 corps), and historical record backs me up. If this were adjusted and after landing forces fought and used their ops, with a 2nd wave you could probably approach historical results. On the other hand the other side does not get to respond at all for 2 weeks, so in the case of Normandy, the Axis would probably not be able to bottle up the Allies for the historical amount of time.

I suspect this is the case that the scale, stacking, ops, etc works well for the Russian front, but does not fit the Western front as well. Also an argument that I-Go U-Go format for stategic games is getting obsolete, particularly for computer games.

Don't get me wrong here, I like this game, but there are things that disappoint me. I think that there are board games that handle this better than the best PC games on WWII, and given all that a computer can do that seems wrong.

Post #: 1

RE: Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 3:01:35 PM

kennonlightfoot

Posts: 1530
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline

I haven't tried that scenarios to see how things play out. But there is always a problem for an strategic/operational level game duplicating what happened tactically. Two weeks in an active campaign are hard to simulate in a single turn. If you let units have that much operational ability you create problems because it is hard to simulate the preparation required to make that possible.

As far as landing go on Normandy beaches of two hexes will handle two corps which is about the size of the initial invasion. Since in the game a para units is a full corps one drop would simulate the two division drop on D-Day. The problems come in when the game tries to simulate the two weeks that followed. Which may run into your stacking problem. I'll have to try the scenario just to see what happens.

Supposedly the game support beach supply but I don't think I have ever figured out how to make it work.

Stacking is one of those things that can seriously unbalance the game. In order to fix one problem you will create a hundred more. If the game allowed combat stacking then because the way the combat system and odds work you could create "killer" stacks that would destroy every unit they attacked making huge breakthroughs easy. I would like to see HQ's able to stack like air but if you could stack Corps other things would break.

(in reply to SeattleKCD)

Post #: 2

RE: Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 3:37:30 PM

MorningDew

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline

For beach supply - have a naval unit adjacent to the hexes and press the "supply invasions" button.

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(in reply to kennonlightfoot)

Post #: 3

RE: Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 4:08:08 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

For beach supply - have a naval unit adjacent to the hexes and press the "supply invasions" button.

That's it.

Thus why you need air and naval superiority over Normandy.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to MorningDew)

Post #: 4

RE: Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 8:00:28 PM

kennonlightfoot

Posts: 1530
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

For beach supply - have a naval unit adjacent to the hexes and press the "supply invasions" button.

I don't think I have seen such a button. Where is it?
Also, does the beach supply only units in the beach hex or do they extend out to units further away?

(in reply to MorningDew)

Post #: 5

RE: Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 8:56:38 PM

SeattleKCD

Posts: 21
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

For beach supply - have a naval unit adjacent to the hexes and press the "supply invasions" button.

I don't think I have seen such a button. Where is it?
Also, does the beach supply only units in the beach hex or do they extend out to units further away?

It is in the fleet window. Be careful when/how you use it as it spends all the actions for the entire fleet, when you only need a single ship fleet (even just DD's) to achieve the same thing. Similarly for beach landings, you need to manage your fleets or you can waste actions on a lot of ships.

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)

Post #: 6

RE: Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 9:00:59 PM

SeattleKCD

Posts: 21
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline

The more I look at it, the more I am convinced that a single corps per hex unrealistically limits offensive concentration. I don't think I would have to try too hard to find examples on the east and west fronts where sides concentrated troops more than this. It's a balance vs realism choice, but I think it could hurt the Allies a lot particularly in invasions.

(in reply to SeattleKCD)

Post #: 7

RE: Broken Scale & Stacking - Operation Husky and Overlord - 9/10/2020 10:56:49 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

Every button has a hover tooltip

read the manual.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to SeattleKCD)

Post #: 8