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Runway destruction - 9/21/2020 6:40:39 AM   
pbrowne


Posts: 147
Joined: 8/7/2020
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		I have a general question about whether it is possible to 100% destroy facilities, including runways in this post on Shifting Sands -> Hit Hard Hit Fast

However, this question is more to do with approaches and using runway destruction ordnance, e.g. the 70Kg Condib anti-runway bomb.

In the above scenario, taking out Egyptian runways is one of the primary objectives, given the above ordnance on Mirage III aircraft platforms. One of the suggested approaches is to use Off-axis Attacks to enable different vector approaches.

This seems to me logical for general ground strikes, but counter intuitive for runway destruction, as it would seem logical to have the aircraft follow the runway axis for release of ordnance like the Condib 70, which use their glide path and parachute/rocket delivery along an axis.

So, what is the best approach for runway destruction strikes using these types of ordnance? Should these be off-axis, or can these be planned to deliver down a runway axis (if not, would it be useful to have this added - e.g. a drawable freeform facility)? Or is this handled automatically (me thinks not as CMO has no way of knowing about the runaway layout). Delivery it seems to runway intersects is not usually an option without a facility being available on the intersect to target.

I assume though that the Condib and other ordnance is always automatically released at optimum altitudes, in the case of the Condib 70 this would be 300ft.

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 9/21/2020 7:06:05 AM >
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RE: Runway destruction - 9/21/2020 7:29:29 AM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 167
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline 		I haven't played this scenario yet but aren't bridges attacked a bit off-axis? Would this not apply to runways as well? However, in CMO isn't the target spot the important thing as far as dropping ordnance on the map?

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RE: Runway destruction - 9/21/2020 7:38:52 AM   
pbrowne


Posts: 147
Joined: 8/7/2020
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronmexico111

...However, in CMO isn't the target spot the important thing as far as dropping ordnance on the map?


Thanks for the reply. I assumed that due to the nature of the Condib delivery (glide -> parachute -> rocket assist) in an extended arc, a longitudinal approach to the target axis would be critical to ensure a hit.

If close enough to the defined target is what CMO wants, then that is kind of disappointing...as a runaway miss, is a miss

It's a bit like the B-17 bombers failing to hit Omaha Beach before the landing to create craters for cover. They missed and the bombs fell way inland among the hedgerows and cows. This is because they flew ACROSS the beaches from the English Channel, not ALONG the beaches...axis is important, same SHOULD apply to bridges, roads, railway lines etc with earlier types of ordnance.

Example of Matra Durandal runway ordnance which was a later ordnance from 1971, but same principle:

https://youtu.be/_m-buvo3dj4

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 9/21/2020 7:58:23 AM >

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RE: Runway destruction - 9/21/2020 7:58:03 AM   
Zathred

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 7/5/2018
Status: offline 		From a pure physics perspective approaching down the runway heading clearly increases the probability of hitting it. The disadvantage is that flying a known heading and altitude is inviting destruction by AAW forces. Airfields are heavily defended locations. All the AAW forces need to do is point AA guns down the length of the runway and open fire on approach of an attacking aircraft or weapon.

Off axis attacks from multiple directions give the AAW forces a more challenging opponent. Never be predictable. If your opponent knows when and from where you are coming from they can be ready to respond.

< Message edited by Zathred -- 9/21/2020 7:59:04 AM >

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RE: Runway destruction - 9/21/2020 8:04:57 AM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 167
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline 		This is why I'm a lot more hands-on with attacks like this and try to knock the air defense out first, and I adjust my WRA to not waste a bunch of bombs on one target.

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RE: Runway destruction - 9/21/2020 8:08:22 AM   
pbrowne


Posts: 147
Joined: 8/7/2020
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		Yes, I take the point about AA, however, the Israelis were flying in a 60ft from the north (Mediterranean Sea) to avoid detection and the obvious approaches from the east across the Sinai. The Condib is launched at 300ft, too low for any effective AA IMO. But the Israelis did lose at least 46 a/c.

So I'm asking both from a real technical point, as well as from a CMO viewpoint as to what is necessary and best to ensure hits...

I'm getting the feeling now from a CMO view of a target as a pinpoint, it doesn't really matter. I may need to do some tests with the Condib...

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 9/21/2020 8:22:01 AM >

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RE: Runway destruction - 9/21/2020 12:59:18 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		I think that prior to precision bombing and GBUs etc an attack at an angle would ensure that at least one bomb on a stick/run would hit the runway. Down the runway would mean that if there was a slight navigation error all bombs would land parallel to the runway

When you look at Blackbuck, the Vulcan raid on Port Stanley, they did this, and with 21 bombs they hit the runway with the 2nd bomb.

B

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