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Korsun today, tomorrow Stalingrad?

 
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Korsun today, tomorrow Stalingrad? - 8/10/2003 3:52:05 AM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Although I think the battle of Korsun has been chosen rightfully, since it is a very interesting episod of the Eastern Front, I wonder whether there are any other planes for this series (if I may call it that after two battles). The battle of Stalingrad (especially after the encirclement of the 6th Army) would be another great choice. I know it is way too early, but are there any future plans and if so, is Stalingrad an option?

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- 8/10/2003 4:34:01 AM   
Titan

 

Posts: 482
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: new Zealand
Status: offline 		citdal would be my choice

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Post #: 2
- 8/10/2003 5:48:33 AM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Kharkov or Velikye Luki.:)

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Post #: 3
- 8/10/2003 5:58:30 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Im wanting stalingrad too

Boat transport would have to be added


Or Sevestapol ( I think I spelled that right)
Underlooked battle..I think it would be fun

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Post #: 4
- 8/10/2003 6:16:00 AM   
Rob Gjessing


Posts: 525
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Dont want to get into too much trouble for leaking information, but yes there are other plans for other games in the series, the next one will be Battles in Normandy, and I have also seen some maps and builds of other battles too.. all Im going to say is that the Starlingrad Map looks pretty **** nice :)

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Post #: 5
- 8/10/2003 6:18:58 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		NOOOOOO

Please no

I am so sick of Normandy

I believe I have played that **** battle in every possible way there is to play the thing

If you want to do west front...how about the Med?
It never gets any attention

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Post #: 6
- 8/10/2003 6:22:05 AM   
Rob Gjessing


Posts: 525
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Yeah but you havent played it using the DBWWII engine.. :) Who knows that Italy wont sprout up..?!?

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Post #: 7
- 8/10/2003 6:56:10 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		By the time Italy comes 25 more games about Normandy will have also :D

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Post #: 8
- 8/10/2003 1:35:43 PM   
Wallenstein

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Hmm, a few suggestions:

-) the Kiev - ****omir area 1943/44
-) Kharkov 1943
-) the German relief attempts of Budapest 1945 and their last offensive in the east: "Frühlingserwachen"
-) Operation Nordwind 1945
-) Yes, Citadel 1943 would be nice as well

I fully agree with Fallschirmjaeger, the battle for Normandy has been covered by sooooo many games, I think I know every tree there in 1944...but I realise that a wargame featuring D-Day has a better chance to become a commercial success than any other battlefield.
In general, I like games with much movement, where both side have to master offensive and defensive tasks with- so Italy would seem to be a little boring to me...

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Post #: 9
- 8/10/2003 2:41:38 PM   
Rob Gjessing


Posts: 525
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Anzio was one of my favourite scenarios under the old Battlefront System from SSG.. its was great..

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Post #: 10
- 8/10/2003 3:24:07 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Stalingrad would offer the opportunity to see whether the 6th Army could have launched a succesfull breakout. That operation alone would be so complex that it would be a feast for military gamers. Personaly I love those " what-if"- situations, as long as it feel realistic. So I'm definitely hoping for Stalingrad.

Normandy will be welcome as well. Especially the first 24 hours are fascinating. And let's be realistic, it would sell well and whether we like it or not that is still the most important factor. But first I will concentrate on Korsun and I'm preparing myself by reading Douglas E. Nash excellent book " Hell's Gate" which I can recommend to everyone who is searching for a good book on the subject.

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Post #: 11
- 8/10/2003 5:56:10 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]the German relief attempts of Budapest 1945 and their last offensive in the east: "Frühlingserwachen"[/QUOTE]

My grandpa got captured in that campaign by the russians. He "stayed" five more years with them then ....


I personally am looking forward to a "Normandy" sequel. I personally would love to see a France 1940 campaign.

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Marc von Martial
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Post #: 12
- 8/10/2003 6:17:46 PM   
Titan

 

Posts: 482
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: new Zealand
Status: offline 		Another which would be very interesting would be operation Typhoon,it would could be a real thriller for the Germans to do better than they did historically,and it is a battle that is not depicted to often

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Post #: 13
- 8/10/2003 7:51:18 PM   
Paratrooper

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 6/15/2003
From: descending on Stockholm
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rob Gjessing
[B]Dont want to get into too much trouble for leaking information, but yes there are other plans for other games in the series, the next one will be Battles in Normandy, and I have also seen some maps and builds of other battles too.. all Im going to say is that the Starlingrad Map looks pretty **** nice :) [/B][/QUOTE]

I'd buy it BUT only if it includes:
Cobra
Charnwood
Goodwood
Falaise Gap

Be nice if it included a bonus Anvil campaign also. ;)

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Oi maamme, Suomi, synnyinmaa!

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Post #: 14
!!! - 8/10/2003 9:43:41 PM   
mariovalleemtl


Posts: 360
Joined: 8/9/2000
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica !

Please.

mv :)

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Post #: 15
Deutsche Afrika Korps - 8/10/2003 10:20:56 PM   
"Joss" Osborne

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 5/17/2003
Status: offline 		You mean something like this?:D






[IMG]http://www.blitzkriegdesign.com/dak1.jpg[/IMG]

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Regards,

Joe "Joss" Osborne

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Post #: 16
Re: !!! - 8/10/2003 10:41:57 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mario Vallée
[B]Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica ! Rommel in North Affrica !

Please.

mv :) [/B][/QUOTE]

That's also my choice. The full North African campaign. . .

Cheers!

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Post #: 17
- 8/10/2003 10:42:11 PM   
PeterF

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/10/2003
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Rommel in North Affrica ![/QUOTE] etc.

These games seem rather better suited to theaters with well defined frontages; slogging matches as it were, like Normandy (except Cobra). The war in N Africa was very supply centered and
fluid. I'm not sure it would make a good matchup.

What we need are early war scenarios! Like Barbarossa, over-worked in the past, true, but not recently.

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Post #: 18
- 8/10/2003 11:24:42 PM   
"Joss" Osborne

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 5/17/2003
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by PeterF
[B]etc.

These games seem rather better suited to theaters with well defined frontages; slogging matches as it were, like Normandy (except Cobra). The war in N Africa was very supply centered and
fluid. I'm not sure it would make a good matchup.

What we need are early war scenarios! Like Barbarossa, over-worked in the past, true, but not recently. [/B][/QUOTE]


There appears to be somewhat of a limitation in map size to try and do something like Barbarossa. Unless I'm missing something max size of the map is 66 x 48 hexes whic would equate to 198 km by 144 km not big enough to do Barbarossa.


It would seem to me that the game is best suited for small "campaigns" like Operation Crusader, Kursk, El Alamein...those kinds of engagements rather than large "fronts".

I agree the "War in North Africa" would be too large for this scale, but Operation Crusader, Compass, Gazala...etc might fit the bill.

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Regards,

Joe "Joss" Osborne

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Post #: 19
- 8/11/2003 5:43:43 AM   
Toxie

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/5/2003
From: WA./USA
Status: offline 		Speaking of Normandy games we've all played. I love to see
Patton's breakout, Cobra. That's rarely covered, if at all except there was a boardgame of that a long time ago and it was great. I think this system would
be good for this operation.

Toxie

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Post #: 20
- 8/11/2003 3:43:57 PM   
Rob Gjessing


Posts: 525
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Any limitations in terms of map size would be overcome. Like I have said before, whilst I dont speak for SSG, I understand that they have some big plans here.. dependent on how well KP sells I spose.. so buy one for yourself, one for your girlfriend (she'd be the perfect woman is she played too right? :D), one for your dad, one for your grandpa and one for the next door neighours dog..

Oh yeah.. "Joss".. your image made me laugh.. :)

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Post #: 21
- 8/11/2003 5:23:42 PM   
Vasquez


Posts: 441
Joined: 12/29/2000
From: München, Bayern, Deutschland
Status: offline 		No, please not a african scenario this is boring :p I would like:

A full east front campaign :eek: :)

If not posible ;) :

1. Stalingrad/Caucasus

2. D-Day/Normandie

3. Zitadelle (Kursk) maybe including the Orel area.

"Die Höhen von Seelow" (04/1945) would also nice or a italy campaign or so. But russian front is still the best and most interesting.

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Post #: 22
- 8/11/2003 6:11:20 PM   
Capitaine

 

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
Status: offline 		For Barbarossa, you could divide it up: AGN, AGC and AGS. It's really an exciting situation.

I'd also like a France 1940 operation.

Some folks had mentioned that Crete and/or a N. Afrika operation originally were considered to be included w/ KP. Crete and, of course, N. Afrika would be awesome.

So would Sicily, for that matter... =P

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Post #: 23
- 8/11/2003 8:43:25 PM   
"Joss" Osborne

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 5/17/2003
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rob Gjessing
[B]Any limitations in terms of map size would be overcome. Like I have said before, whilst I dont speak for SSG, I understand that they have some big plans here.. dependent on how well KP sells I spose.. so buy one for yourself, one for your girlfriend (she'd be the perfect woman is she played too right? :D), one for your dad, one for your grandpa and one for the next door neighours dog..

Oh yeah.. "Joss".. your image made me laugh.. :) [/B][/QUOTE]


This is good to hear, as I'm actively soliciting all my SPWAW friends to buy,buy buy! :D

For those who don't know, the image I posted is from my first exploratory bumblings with the editor. :)

For those of you with questions...yes, you can create you're own tile sets (Photoshop is NOT included :)) .... Yes, you can create your own countries and units! There is a nice OOB creator buried inside.


Yes, the editor is not documented and Roger has promised us more with Normandy game, but after having spent weeks with an undocumented editor in the game "Bltzkrieg" this wasn't such a mystery. Though there are some quirks.....;)

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Regards,

Joe "Joss" Osborne

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Post #: 24
- 8/12/2003 10:12:13 PM   
Kent Pfeiffer

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 2/8/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Titan
[B]Another which would be very interesting would be operation Typhoon,it would could be a real thriller for the Germans to do better than they did historically,and it is a battle that is not depicted to often [/B][/QUOTE]

That one would be at the top of my list. It has two great things going for it: the two sides are fairly evenly matched and it's one of the very few single operations that could have changed the outcome of the war. It's surprising that Typhoon is so rarely depicted in computer wargames, especially since some of the best board wargames ever made, like SPI's Operation Typhoon, GMT's Typhoon!, and The Gamers' Guderian's Blitzkrieg cover it.

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Post #: 25
- 8/12/2003 10:40:33 PM   
Henri

 

Posts: 146
Joined: 4/26/2002
Status: offline 		Roger Keating has already leaked on a Wargamer AAR that the next game after Normandy will be Barbarossa. I will prefer the latter, since Normandy invasion games are my least favorite games. Barbarossa at the Division level as planned is good, although I prefer a corps level game a la The Russian Campaign.

I think that the suggestion for a France 1940 game is a good one.

One problem with the excellent TAO is that the Germans have no chance at all (as historically) of reaching Liege, even against the most incompetent play. There should be an option for "unrealistic" results that cold be fun.

I can't comment on this aspect of Korsun Pocket, since so far I have played only the ahistgorical "Wiking Whiteout" addon scenario (see my AAR on the war-historical usenet forum).

henri

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Post #: 26
- 8/12/2003 11:17:19 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Can you post a link for that AAR Henri? I can't find it at their site. Thanks.

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Post #: 27
- 8/13/2003 12:32:56 AM   
Spaceman

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 2/20/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kent Pfeiffer
[B]That one would be at the top of my list. It has two great things going for it: the two sides are fairly evenly matched and it's one of the very few single operations that could have changed the outcome of the war. It's surprising that Typhoon is so rarely depicted in computer wargames, especially since some of the best board wargames ever made, like SPI's Operation Typhoon, GMT's Typhoon!, and The Gamers' Guderian's Blitzkrieg cover it. [/B][/QUOTE]

Got The Gamer's Guderian II recently, GREAT fun. Would make a good WG and have considered doing parts with the Editor ?!

The Gamers's Operational Combat Series treats the situations interestingly. One could in principle do DBWWII on any of the OCS games.

A question though - great to see the decisive battles done well with this engine, but perhaps would be good to not simply do all the HPS games again, but deal with less well covered ones instead.

Tunisia is a great match, even with a lot of opportunities...
Hube's Pocket would eb interesting and contemporary with Khorsun (similar balance, familiar to Korsun players) - am tentatively going to do this one with the Editor
Kiev/Zhitomir also interesting.
Post-Kursk Ukraine - tough for the Germans. Can you do as well as von Manstein?
Italy has not been covered enough by board or PC games.

My €0.04

Cheers

Space§man

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Post #: 28
- 8/13/2003 12:46:29 AM   
Henri

 

Posts: 146
Joined: 4/26/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by elmo3
[B]Can you post a link for that AAR Henri? I can't find it at their site. Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

[url]www.wargamer.com/wachtamrhein[/url]

Click on replays on the left menu and choose the top one.

In fact it is a replay of The Ardennes Offensive version that comes with KP, but this new version has the same engine. Keating's comment about Barbarossa is in the comments of one of the early turns. And it was written some time ago...

Henri

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Post #: 29
- 8/13/2003 12:57:33 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		tanks

P.S. - Never did find the comment. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what is after Normandy. :) I'm hoping Stalingrad myself.

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Post #: 30
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