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Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story

 
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Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/7/2020 12:36:10 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2599.html
How this crew was denied a silver star I will never know.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
Post #: 1
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/7/2020 12:50:24 PM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2599.html
How this crew was denied a silver star I will never know.


Having to use flashlights and ditching a plane doesn't merit the SS.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 2
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/7/2020 3:55:19 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Considering the all that happened during the mission, the award of the Silver Star would have been appropriate. I know of someone who received the Bronze Star for dying of a suspected heart attack in the rear, nowhere near any fighting.

Hagel die Besatzung der Festung Annie!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 3
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/7/2020 8:36:43 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I read a story somewhere about a B-17 crew that did a dive bombing attack on ships at Rabaul.

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Post #: 4
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/7/2020 11:03:41 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		dive bombing in a 17 would be interesting. Getting a ride on a 17 is still on the bucket list. When I still lived in Hoboken there was a 17 flying out of Teterboro (not sure who it belonged to). But a dozen passes a day while a was in the hammock sipping a beer - priceless.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 5
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/7/2020 11:12:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I read a story somewhere about a B-17 crew that did a dive bombing attack on ships at Rabaul.


This one may have been one of them. The ones that flew higher did not get damaged that much by AAA, if at all, but the ones that went a lot lower did get damaged.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 6
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/7/2020 11:45:58 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

dive bombing in a 17 would be interesting. Getting a ride on a 17 is still on the bucket list. When I still lived in Hoboken there was a 17 flying out of Teterboro (not sure who it belonged to). But a dozen passes a day while a was in the hammock sipping a beer - priceless.

There is a huge multi-day annual air show at Oshkosh, Wisconsin featuring lots of vintage planes. I believe there is a B-17 (based at Mesa, AZ IIRC) that goes there and offers rides for a reasonable sum - $75 or so. Probably takes five or so tourists per flight. The Mesa group also has a B-25 that flies.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 7
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/8/2020 12:01:48 AM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		now i just need to figure out getting there and seeing if i have to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/8/2020 1:37:31 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

now i just need to figure out getting there and seeing if i have to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks.

Well by next July, if people put in the effort, we will all have freedom to travel without quarantine again. Good luck!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 9
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/8/2020 2:26:32 AM   
CV10

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/21/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

dive bombing in a 17 would be interesting. Getting a ride on a 17 is still on the bucket list. When I still lived in Hoboken there was a 17 flying out of Teterboro (not sure who it belonged to). But a dozen passes a day while a was in the hammock sipping a beer - priceless.

There is a huge multi-day annual air show at Oshkosh, Wisconsin featuring lots of vintage planes. I believe there is a B-17 (based at Mesa, AZ IIRC) that goes there and offers rides for a reasonable sum - $75 or so. Probably takes five or so tourists per flight. The Mesa group also has a B-25 that flies.


you've just given me something to look forward to!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 10
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/8/2020 8:51:00 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		I thought this was going to be a story about old airframe #666 flying out of PM.

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"I am Alfred"

(in reply to CV10)
Post #: 11
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/8/2020 1:23:33 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		If the Jones Beach Air show returns this year they usually have a B-17 and a B-25. Some years a B-24 and a B-29. If nothing else you can can go to Farmingdale Airport and walk through them. They offer rides too (not cheap) The B-24 is really different than the others. It feels like a box car with wings. Really missed the airshow this year

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 12
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/8/2020 1:42:20 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		I have to say I missed airshows this year. Last year I saw the Blue Angels for the first time - those pilots are nuts. But to date my all time favorite is Duxford, but that is a long commute currently.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 13
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/25/2020 12:54:52 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Hmmm... there is a restaurant at West Bay Marina here in town named Tugboat Annie's. From now on, I am more likely to associate it with this aircraft than with the old movie.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 14
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/25/2020 3:38:10 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 11/25/2020 3:39:11 PM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 15
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/26/2020 2:31:56 PM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.



I seriously doubt the "dive bombing" claim. No way the plane could handle that angle of attack and survive.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 16
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/26/2020 4:43:04 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.



I seriously doubt the "dive bombing" claim. No way the plane could handle that angle of attack and survive.


The Flying Fortress was pretty strong.

Hagel Sieg für die fliegende Festung!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 17
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/26/2020 4:59:01 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.



I seriously doubt the "dive bombing" claim. No way the plane could handle that angle of attack and survive.


The Flying Fortress was pretty strong.

Hagel Sieg für die fliegende Festung!


My guess is that the author of that article confused a glide bombing attack with a dive bombing one.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 18
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/26/2020 5:07:50 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		That article is about skip bombing, doesn't mention other than it and level bombing.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 19
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/26/2020 5:56:09 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I was speaking about the article to which GeoffLambert was referring (post 4) that started the discussion on dive bombing in a B-17.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 20
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/26/2020 7:49:31 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I was speaking about the article to which GeoffLambert was referring (post 4) that started the discussion on dive bombing in a B-17.


Ah!

Well, would have been brave man to try to dive bomb with B-17. though it was done with Ju-88..so maybe possible...

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 21
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/27/2020 1:08:19 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		My recollection is that the particular crew was on patrol, not in formation. It was daylight and they would try and attack ships they spotted but had been frustrated at Rabaul in part because of the flak. I don't think it was a spur of the moment thing, I think the captain had wanted to try it, and I believe they pulled it off, albeit with a lot of holes in the plane.

_____________________________



(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 22
RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story - 11/27/2020 1:10:48 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		This may be the story: http://www.dba-oracle.com/dive_bombing_b_17.htm

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Post #: 23
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