Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (Full Version)

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JohnDillworth -> Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/7/2020 12:36:10 PM)

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2599.html
How this crew was denied a silver star I will never know.



Rusty1961 -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/7/2020 12:50:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2599.html
How this crew was denied a silver star I will never know.


Having to use flashlights and ditching a plane doesn't merit the SS.



RangerJoe -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/7/2020 3:55:19 PM)

Considering the all that happened during the mission, the award of the Silver Star would have been appropriate. I know of someone who received the Bronze Star for dying [:(] of a suspected heart attack in the rear, nowhere near any fighting.

Hagel die Besatzung der Festung Annie! [sm=00000436.gif]



geofflambert -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/7/2020 8:36:43 PM)

I read a story somewhere about a B-17 crew that did a dive bombing attack on ships at Rabaul.



fcooke -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/7/2020 11:03:41 PM)

dive bombing in a 17 would be interesting. Getting a ride on a 17 is still on the bucket list. When I still lived in Hoboken there was a 17 flying out of Teterboro (not sure who it belonged to). But a dozen passes a day while a was in the hammock sipping a beer - priceless.



RangerJoe -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/7/2020 11:12:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I read a story somewhere about a B-17 crew that did a dive bombing attack on ships at Rabaul.


This one may have been one of them. The ones that flew higher did not get damaged that much by AAA, if at all, but the ones that went a lot lower did get damaged.



BBfanboy -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/7/2020 11:45:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

dive bombing in a 17 would be interesting. Getting a ride on a 17 is still on the bucket list. When I still lived in Hoboken there was a 17 flying out of Teterboro (not sure who it belonged to). But a dozen passes a day while a was in the hammock sipping a beer - priceless.

There is a huge multi-day annual air show at Oshkosh, Wisconsin featuring lots of vintage planes. I believe there is a B-17 (based at Mesa, AZ IIRC) that goes there and offers rides for a reasonable sum - $75 or so. Probably takes five or so tourists per flight. The Mesa group also has a B-25 that flies.



fcooke -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/8/2020 12:01:48 AM)

now i just need to figure out getting there and seeing if i have to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks.



BBfanboy -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/8/2020 1:37:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

now i just need to figure out getting there and seeing if i have to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks.

Well by next July, if people put in the effort, we will all have freedom to travel without quarantine again. Good luck!



CV10 -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/8/2020 2:26:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

dive bombing in a 17 would be interesting. Getting a ride on a 17 is still on the bucket list. When I still lived in Hoboken there was a 17 flying out of Teterboro (not sure who it belonged to). But a dozen passes a day while a was in the hammock sipping a beer - priceless.

There is a huge multi-day annual air show at Oshkosh, Wisconsin featuring lots of vintage planes. I believe there is a B-17 (based at Mesa, AZ IIRC) that goes there and offers rides for a reasonable sum - $75 or so. Probably takes five or so tourists per flight. The Mesa group also has a B-25 that flies.


you've just given me something to look forward to!



Ian R -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/8/2020 8:51:00 AM)

I thought this was going to be a story about old airframe #666 flying out of PM.



JohnDillworth -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/8/2020 1:23:33 PM)

If the Jones Beach Air show returns this year they usually have a B-17 and a B-25. Some years a B-24 and a B-29. If nothing else you can can go to Farmingdale Airport and walk through them. They offer rides too (not cheap) The B-24 is really different than the others. It feels like a box car with wings. Really missed the airshow this year



fcooke -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/8/2020 1:42:20 PM)

I have to say I missed airshows this year. Last year I saw the Blue Angels for the first time - those pilots are nuts. But to date my all time favorite is Duxford, but that is a long commute currently.



bradfordkay -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/25/2020 12:54:52 AM)

Hmmm... there is a restaurant at West Bay Marina here in town named Tugboat Annie's. From now on, I am more likely to associate it with this aircraft than with the old movie.



Sardaukar -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/25/2020 3:38:10 PM)

Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.



Rusty1961 -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/26/2020 2:31:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.



I seriously doubt the "dive bombing" claim. No way the plane could handle that angle of attack and survive.



RangerJoe -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/26/2020 4:43:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.



I seriously doubt the "dive bombing" claim. No way the plane could handle that angle of attack and survive.


The Flying Fortress was pretty strong.

Hagel Sieg für die fliegende Festung!



bradfordkay -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/26/2020 4:59:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Don't know about dive bombing, but B-17s were used to pioneer skip bombing.

That was because it was about only plane with range to reach Rabaul that time.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

By October 1943, the U.S. Army had begun to supply General Kenney’s Fifth Air Force with American-made fuses. On the night of October 22-23, the first skip bombing raid in American history occurred when the 63rd BS of the 43rd BG attacked a buildup of Japanese shipping at Rabaul. At midnight on October 22, six Fortresses from the 63rd BS took off from Port Moresby behind six from the 64th BS/43rd BG. While the 64th BS hit the town of Rabaul from 10,000 feet, attracting the searchlights and antiaircraft fire, the 63rd BS engaged the enemy ships in skip bombing.



I seriously doubt the "dive bombing" claim. No way the plane could handle that angle of attack and survive.


The Flying Fortress was pretty strong.

Hagel Sieg für die fliegende Festung!


My guess is that the author of that article confused a glide bombing attack with a dive bombing one.



Sardaukar -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/26/2020 5:07:50 PM)

That article is about skip bombing, doesn't mention other than it and level bombing.



bradfordkay -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/26/2020 5:56:09 PM)

I was speaking about the article to which GeoffLambert was referring (post 4) that started the discussion on dive bombing in a B-17.



Sardaukar -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/26/2020 7:49:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I was speaking about the article to which GeoffLambert was referring (post 4) that started the discussion on dive bombing in a B-17.


Ah!

Well, would have been brave man to try to dive bomb with B-17. though it was done with Ju-88..so maybe possible...



geofflambert -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/27/2020 1:08:19 AM)

My recollection is that the particular crew was on patrol, not in formation. It was daylight and they would try and attack ships they spotted but had been frustrated at Rabaul in part because of the flak. I don't think it was a spur of the moment thing, I think the captain had wanted to try it, and I believe they pulled it off, albeit with a lot of holes in the plane.



geofflambert -> RE: Now here is a B-17 with an absolutly heroic story (11/27/2020 1:10:48 AM)

This may be the story: http://www.dba-oracle.com/dive_bombing_b_17.htm



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