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What is a "normal" range for aircraft?

 
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What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 12:58:11 PM   
Dampfnudel

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/27/2019
Status: offline 		What is a "normal" range for aircraft?

In my current game, I get them between 5-7 hexes. I remember in a first try in a nother game that 20-30 hexes was possible too.

My planet:
0,43g
403 mbar
I tried my configurations and my scout gets 7 hexes and my bomber with the smallest bomb gets 5 hexes.
What do I have to consider to maximize the range of my planes?

Is there anywhere a guide that exactly explains how bar, gravity, wing and engine work?
Post #: 1
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 1:16:29 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		5 hexes is, if I remember correctly 1000km. One way, so 2000km there and back. It's a lot. Dunno if bomber ranges have been much longer, maybe B52 and like.

_____________________________

> What is the hardest thing in the universe?
> A diamond?
> No. 500 machine gun men on a mountain.

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 2
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 1:25:22 PM   
Dampfnudel

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/27/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

5 hexes is, if I remember correctly 1000km. One way, so 2000km there and back. It's a lot. Dunno if bomber ranges have been much longer, maybe B52 and like.



But a B52 is able to carry bombs.
I tried to design a heavy bomber and WITHOUT bombs it gets 1 hex range.
I guess I have to stick with the medium bomber with 250kg bombs.

1 hex range feels realistic. But gameplay-wise it means I have to build airfields EVERYWHERE. And that becomes weird.

< Message edited by Dampfnudel -- 12/8/2020 1:39:58 PM >

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 3
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 1:35:06 PM   
springel


Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline 		This is a normal range for planets where the ratio Gravity : Air Pressure is similar to earth, I think.

With a higher relative air pressure your planes fly more easily. Like when the earth had a heavier atmosphere, larger flying animals existed (and more oxygen, apart from making the air heavier, helped them with their power to weight ratio). When the absolute air pressure gets larger, air resistance also gets larger, so a low gravity medium air pressure planet would give you very good planes (I haven't actually tested all this in SE)

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 4
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 1:36:14 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

5 hexes is, if I remember correctly 1000km. One way, so 2000km there and back. It's a lot. Dunno if bomber ranges have been much longer, maybe B52 and like.



But a B52 is able to carry bombs.
I tried to design a heavy bomber and WITHOUT bombs it gets 1 hex range.
I guess I have to stick with the medium bomber with 250kg bombs.


Tried the largest fuel tank? Improve wings and size? Maybe your motor tech is underpowered? Maybe the atmosphere has something to do with it? Dunno, I', still learning the whole air thingy.

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 5
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 1:45:15 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

Posts: 426
Joined: 6/7/2020
Status: offline 		The biggest fuel tank and biggest wings aren't always the best for range either - sometimes they just slow the aircraft down too much. You have to experiment to find the right balance... Which the current aircraft design UI unfortunately makes a pain in the ass.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 6
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 1:49:14 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		I'm repeating myself, but see the benchmark pdf at the bottom of this post:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4915446

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
Post #: 7
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 2:12:12 PM   
Dampfnudel

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/27/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

I'm repeating myself, but see the benchmark pdf at the bottom of this post:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4915446



Ok, it seems that the 1-3 hex range is normal.

Meaning I have to spam airfields every single tile to field my bombers.


(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 8
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 2:30:07 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

I'm repeating myself, but see the benchmark pdf at the bottom of this post:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4915446



Ok, it seems that the 1-3 hex range is normal.

Meaning I have to spam airfields every single tile to field my bombers.




Yeah it is a bit problematic since the battlefields can be so huge often :/...

EDIT: I'm in the phase where I'm think strategic locations of airfields but the range thing basically forces me to wait until the war begins and I know where I might need them in the end. Offensively also pretty useless because of the range. Trench warfare, maybe.

EDIT2: I have designed a fighter bomber with a range of 5 hexes. It was the best I could do for now.

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 12/8/2020 2:32:47 PM >

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 9
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 2:49:37 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

I'm repeating myself, but see the benchmark pdf at the bottom of this post:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4915446



Ok, it seems that the 1-3 hex range is normal.

Meaning I have to spam airfields every single tile to field my bombers.

Looking at the PDF, you might be able to reach 10 hexes on an unupgraded 4 engine heavy airplane on your planet if you don't go overboard on the bomb load.
You should probably research rocketry, because air-to-surface rockets are lighter than bombs and stick to smaller planes.

< Message edited by Destragon -- 12/8/2020 2:51:10 PM >

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 10
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/8/2020 6:41:36 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

5 hexes is, if I remember correctly 1000km. One way, so 2000km there and back. It's a lot. Dunno if bomber ranges have been much longer, maybe B52 and like.



But a B52 is able to carry bombs.
I tried to design a heavy bomber and WITHOUT bombs it gets 1 hex range.
I guess I have to stick with the medium bomber with 250kg bombs.

1 hex range feels realistic. But gameplay-wise it means I have to build airfields EVERYWHERE. And that becomes weird.

Maybe your wings are to small? Or maybe you put on jet engines way to early? Propellars and long wings are the usual formula to get long ranges.

I found some data on the B-17 operation stats, wich are way closer to what you can build:
https://nj1015.com/files/2012/08/B-17-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Translated to Metric units:
Wingspan: 31.623 meters
Empty Weight: 15.42 tons
Gross Weight: 29.7103 tons
Fuel Tanks: 6435.2 Litres
With external ("Tokyo") fuel Tanks: 13,741.04 Litres
Range: 2977.2864 km (without external)
Bomb Load: 3.62 tons
Bomb Load with external Racks: 7.98 tons

Of course, in the real world gravity and lift tend to be a cube/square law kind of relationship. Even a small drop in gravity reduces atmospheric pressure by a lot. Low gravity + no magnetic field allowing the solar wind to strip it, are a big reason for the thin martian atmosphere.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 12/8/2020 6:50:41 PM >

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 11
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/9/2020 2:25:42 PM   
Dampfnudel

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/27/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

5 hexes is, if I remember correctly 1000km. One way, so 2000km there and back. It's a lot. Dunno if bomber ranges have been much longer, maybe B52 and like.



But a B52 is able to carry bombs.
I tried to design a heavy bomber and WITHOUT bombs it gets 1 hex range.
I guess I have to stick with the medium bomber with 250kg bombs.

1 hex range feels realistic. But gameplay-wise it means I have to build airfields EVERYWHERE. And that becomes weird.

Maybe your wings are to small? Or maybe you put on jet engines way to early? Propellars and long wings are the usual formula to get long ranges.

I found some data on the B-17 operation stats, wich are way closer to what you can build:
https://nj1015.com/files/2012/08/B-17-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Translated to Metric units:
Wingspan: 31.623 meters
Empty Weight: 15.42 tons
Gross Weight: 29.7103 tons
Fuel Tanks: 6435.2 Litres
With external ("Tokyo") fuel Tanks: 13,741.04 Litres
Range: 2977.2864 km (without external)
Bomb Load: 3.62 tons
Bomb Load with external Racks: 7.98 tons

Of course, in the real world gravity and lift tend to be a cube/square law kind of relationship. Even a small drop in gravity reduces atmospheric pressure by a lot. Low gravity + no magnetic field allowing the solar wind to strip it, are a big reason for the thin martian atmosphere.


My planet has to low atmospshere for proppeler engines. I need rocket engines to make my bombers work. With rocket engines I can use planes with sufficent range, but boy do they consume fuel.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 12
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/9/2020 2:37:11 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

5 hexes is, if I remember correctly 1000km. One way, so 2000km there and back. It's a lot. Dunno if bomber ranges have been much longer, maybe B52 and like.



But a B52 is able to carry bombs.
I tried to design a heavy bomber and WITHOUT bombs it gets 1 hex range.
I guess I have to stick with the medium bomber with 250kg bombs.

1 hex range feels realistic. But gameplay-wise it means I have to build airfields EVERYWHERE. And that becomes weird.

Maybe your wings are to small? Or maybe you put on jet engines way to early? Propellars and long wings are the usual formula to get long ranges.

I found some data on the B-17 operation stats, wich are way closer to what you can build:
https://nj1015.com/files/2012/08/B-17-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Translated to Metric units:
Wingspan: 31.623 meters
Empty Weight: 15.42 tons
Gross Weight: 29.7103 tons
Fuel Tanks: 6435.2 Litres
With external ("Tokyo") fuel Tanks: 13,741.04 Litres
Range: 2977.2864 km (without external)
Bomb Load: 3.62 tons
Bomb Load with external Racks: 7.98 tons

Of course, in the real world gravity and lift tend to be a cube/square law kind of relationship. Even a small drop in gravity reduces atmospheric pressure by a lot. Low gravity + no magnetic field allowing the solar wind to strip it, are a big reason for the thin martian atmosphere.


My planet has to low atmospshere for proppeler engines. I need rocket engines to make my bombers work. With rocket engines I can use planes with sufficent range, but boy do they consume fuel.

If you need Rocket engines to lift off, you really have to small wings - or not nearly a dense enough atmosphere.

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 13
RE: What is a "normal" range for aircraft? - 12/9/2020 2:52:08 PM   
Kamelpov

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 2/22/2020
Status: offline 		Personally i always try to get with first engine range 6 to 8 with casual aircraft as it's approximately a city range of dev ( that's where you usually pop up the next truck hub
and 12 hex with recon.
Then 8-12 hex with better engine and for the jet engine goes 12-16 hex. with end game strategic bomber 30 hex.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 14
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