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aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 10:16:06 AM   
soloje_ssl

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 4/15/2007
Status: offline 		the rule given in the manual about plane replacement says
"Each day, each location will build a number of aircraft equal to: (Number Of Aircraft Factories + random number between 1 and 30) / 30. (Any fractions are rounded down)/"

my replacement rate of Hurricane IIB is 16, at the begining of campaign the replacement was quite around at 16/month according to the value replacement. But on april42 the rate felt to 8/month. it 's just the random and I was unlucky this month? or there are any other parameters used by the game engine about this replacement rate?

< Message edited by soloje_ssl -- 12/26/2020 10:17:13 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 10:50:48 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		It appears that you were unlucky. I have had aircraft produced at more than twice the advertised rate as well as below expectations. I know of no other parameters other than the listed production rate.

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 11:20:16 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Not played the allies for a while but I thought the rule only appled to on map factorr production. Isn't off map replacement rate used by the Allies fixed by the scenario?

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 4:42:21 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: soloje_ssl
my replacement rate of Hurricane IIB is 16, at the begining of campaign the replacement was quite around at 16/month according to the value replacement. But on april42 the rate felt to 8/month. it 's just the random and I was unlucky this month? or there are any other parameters used by the game engine about this replacement rate?

1. Replacement rate as written in Replacement pool window is an average. I bet "Replacement Rate" column is still 16 in that window. I have it at 16 for Hurr-IIb in my stock 2 game in April 42. Actual monthly arrivals (column Month to date) can be different, larger or smaller, depending on RNG.

2. Replacement rate (planes arriving from off-map) and production rate (from on-map factories) are two different things. Some planes can have both at the same time. Not British in stock though, it's all off-map for Brits

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 4:47:36 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

Not played the allies for a while but I thought the rule only appled to on map factorr production. Isn't off map replacement rate used by the Allies fixed by the scenario?

Where there are no on-map factories to represent the aircraft model, the production rate shown should be fixed, as far as I can tell from occasional observations.
The British Blenheims and Wellingtons and Hurricanes would be in this category.
But on-map factories for US aircraft and some Australian aircraft seem to be variable, by the dice roll method.

For the OP - early on Allied aircraft production is so meager that you may have to consider withdrawing or disbanding units to fill out other units. You can often specify that the unit return later (120 days?) so you will have it when you start getting more aircraft to train with or deploy forward.

Also, be aware that there is a provision for replacement of aircraft separate from production of aircraft. Where the aircraft shows a replacement rate, that is the monthly maximum number of aircraft that can be automatically replaced when your units lose aircraft in combat or operations. That simulates reassigning aircraft that were meant for another theater of operations like the ETO.

The actual production was meant to increase the numbers of aircraft available to fill out new units, but of course the aircraft may be used to replace losses and fill out existing units. I have several permanently restricted bomber units in the USA that have had only two Bolo aircraft each unit since they came into being because I needed all the new bomber production for the front, and Bolo production has ceased. They do training at a slower rate than a filled-out unit but I have no other bomber model to spare for them yet.

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 5:01:23 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		No need to disband air units that are understrength for now, just use them for training if nothing else.

For British Catalina I replacement rate in my current game, I have it listed as "3" yet I have received "9" this month. It is the 24th of the month so I may even receive more.

What is worse is as Japanese when this happens for a low production airplane which you really do need but are trying to get or maintain a stockpile of 501+ engines for the research bonus because that does tend to upset the total airframe and research planning for that engine.

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 5:40:03 PM   
BBfanboy


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Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Here is the screen illustrating what I mean - note that there is a column for Replacements and a column for Production. Where there are numbers in both columns you could potentially get the sum of the two, or more if you get good die rolls on production.

Where production is 0, the aircraft is no longer being produced but replacements might still be available from non-factory sources - depots or other theaters.

Also note the r&d for new aircraft. If Player Defined Upgrades is ON, the Allied player does not need to worry about this but the Japanese player does.






Attachment (1)

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/26/2020 6:13:39 PM   
soloje_ssl

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks all for your replies

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 2:42:41 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Also, be aware that there is a provision for replacement of aircraft separate from production of aircraft. Where the aircraft shows a replacement rate, that is the monthly maximum number of aircraft that can be automatically replaced when your units lose aircraft in combat or operations.


Are you sure that the replacement arrival rate is capped by air frame losses? I was under the impression that it was simply a daily roll of random30 being > repl rate means you don't get a plane. E.G. , as the B24D1 has a repl rate of 33, you definitely get 1 per day, and you have a 10% chance of getting a second one.

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 3:16:23 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Also, be aware that there is a provision for replacement of aircraft separate from production of aircraft. Where the aircraft shows a replacement rate, that is the monthly maximum number of aircraft that can be automatically replaced when your units lose aircraft in combat or operations.


Are you sure that the replacement arrival rate is capped by air frame losses? I was under the impression that it was simply a daily roll of random30 being > repl rate means you don't get a plane. E.G. , as the B24D1 has a repl rate of 33, you definitely get 1 per day, and you have a 10% chance of getting a second one.

The replacements are available as replacements for aircraft lost, but my understanding is that they are not available for filling out TOE of the air unit that has lost no aircraft or upgrade of aircraft to that model i.e. replacements are not added to the pool because they are earmarked for other theaters. Alfred had a good post on the difference between replacements and production. I will try to find it.

Edit: Haven't found Alfred's post so far, but there is this from Feb, 2020 where a player is inquiring about F4F replacements arriving in June 1942 even though the production ceased April 1, 1942. He has taken six replacements already in June and there are 45 replacements in the pool. But there are four in the pool and he could have been drawing from the pool first instead of the replacements available. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4767091

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 12/27/2020 3:36:28 AM >

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 3:54:08 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		That link (photo reproduced below) tells me that the "replacement rate" for F4F-4 is 45/month, and 4 days have elapsed in July.

On each of those 4 days, the replacement rate of 45 has prompted 1 x F4F-4 to arrive in the pool, plus, on 2 of those 4 days, the allies made their 'remainder' 15/30 die roll so they got another 2 for 6 total. Edit - and they failed the roll on 4 July so they only get one - the "This turn" '1' column. Noting here that 5 July's production/replacement arrives at the end of the day.

What I am not understanding, is why that arrival process is constrained or capped by losses on map.

Alternately I could have a flawed understanding of what the column headings mean.





< Message edited by Ian R -- 12/27/2020 3:59:16 AM >

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 5:39:19 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


... What I am not understanding, is why that arrival process is constrained or capped by losses on map...





Quite understandable why you are perplexed as no such constraint exists for the Allied player.

For the Allied player, there are 3 sources for receipt of new airframes plus one source for the receipt of second hand airframes.

1. Second hand airframes come from disbanded air unit/air unit spares, sent back to the pools. There is a time delay before these returned airframes become available for redistribution.

2. The Special Convoys can contain brand new airframes. This is a scenario designer decision. For the official scenarios, the devs usually restricted themselves to only using this arrival mode to the Emergency Reinforcements triggered by crossing the various Lines of Death.

3. The "Replacement Rate" which is disclosed on the "Aircraft Replacement Pool" screen. This is new production from abstracted off map, non-base sources. For most Allied aircraft models, this is their only scheduled source for new airframes. Many aircraft models have no replacements from this source. This source dries up when the model is superseded.

4. The "Production Rate" shown on the "Aircraft Replacement Pool" is the new production from dedicated Allied Aircraft Factories, usually found on map. A scenario designer could place these factories in off map bases but this would run counter to the AE design. A good exemplar of the devs sticking to the game design is the British Catalina on map factory production being located in Canada as there are no ethnic" British bases on map.

Allied aircraft factories which are scheduled to upgrade to production of a newer model, will shift this production to the newer model when it comes online, provided the player allows the retooling. For example if aircraft "A" has a "Production Rate" of 30 which is scheduled to cease on 1 June when the factory retools for aircraft "B" which has its own "Production Rate" of 30, then from 1 June the "Production Rate of "B" will be 60 provided the Allied player has allowed the factory producing "A" to retool (aka upgrade). The actual retooling date is subject to die rolls so it is not uncommon for the retooling to not occur on 1 June.



Both sources (3) and (4) are monthly estimates which are subject to die rolls on whether on a given day, any airframe is actually produced.

Japanese aircraft production sources are restricted to only (1) and (4) as the other two sources are not compatible with the design of AE.

Where there is a significant difference between Japanese and Allied airframe production is that the Japanese are constrained to an upper cap in their pools. S.13.8 of the manual explains the operation of the cap, which takes into account the total number of airframes currently deployed to air units.

Alfred

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Post #: 12
RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 6:12:18 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Alfred, are you able to say if this constraint in section 13.0 of the manual applies to air frames?

quote:

If a pool is over 6 months of the pool’s replacement/build rate, the rate is reduced to 0 (this is
for the monthly rate only, not actual production by factories on board) until the pool value drops
below the 6 months level.


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Post #: 13
RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 7:10:56 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Thanks for weighing in Alfred. I was again under a misconception of what the headings mean. Apologies for all the confusion I created ...




Attachment (1)

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 8:04:50 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Alfred, are you able to say if this constraint in section 13.0 of the manual applies to air frames?

quote:

If a pool is over 6 months of the pool’s replacement/build rate, the rate is reduced to 0 (this is
for the monthly rate only, not actual production by factories on board) until the pool value drops
below the 6 months level.



Yes, that limitation does apply to Allied airframe pools. Very few Allied players will notice it as they usually don't have deep enough pools and it doesn't apply to on map factory building. From my own games, Hurricanes and Hellcats are two models which readily come to mind hitting this upper limit.

Alfred

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Post #: 15
RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 8:21:23 AM   
Ian R

 

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From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		So that limited extent, we could say BBfanboy is correct, in that, a paucity of losses may see the pool cap reached.

The causal chain is not free of attenuation, but as Hart and Honoré say, a cause is a cause.

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 3:29:23 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

So that limited extent, we could say BBfanboy is correct, in that, a paucity of losses may see the pool cap reached.

The causal chain is not free of attenuation, but as Hart and Honoré say, a cause is a cause.


Just because?

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 3:47:30 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

So that limited extent, we could say BBfanboy is correct, in that, a paucity of losses may see the pool cap reached.

The causal chain is not free of attenuation, but as Hart and Honoré say, a cause is a cause.


Except that it is solely based on what is in the pool. Failure to send airframes generated only by the "Replacement Rate" from the pool to understrength air units out on the frontline will create that cap. Unlike what applies to Japan as per s.13.8 of the manual. Japan generates its new airframes from the "Production Rate" and has a different cap (with return to the pools of the components), one which doesn't apply to the Allies.

It is a rare situation where Allied aircraft production has any relationship to combat results. Less rare than not having HI points in the pools but it is never commented on in AARs of PBEMs with PDU ON. By far the most common answer to non production is ide rolls for that turn.

Alfred

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RE: aircraft replacement pool - 12/27/2020 4:43:49 PM   
soloje_ssl

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 4/15/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks again for all these comments.stil unlucky this month, may 1942, on P38 E, rate is 28 and only 4 produced at 9th may.I 'm in lack of aircraft in all lands, most in Birmania each lost of production is terrible.

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