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RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 7:19:21 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		What is up with the USAAF and the numbering of aircraft designs?

I realize this is a recurrent theme but why did they keep ordering aircraft designs that are notably WORSE than the previously ordered design?

The best examples are the B-17 and B-18? What the Hell? When they got the B-17 plans back from Boeing somebody should have said.."STOP! No more design contracts! This thing is freaking bitchen!"

Or the P-43??? WTF? How could anyone look at the drawings and not say "This thing looks like a flying sausage"

And what happened to the P-41 and P-42? Were they so bad the designers were ashamed to submit them?

Then the is the C-46 which is more capable than the C-47..and the B-29, which is 7 planes better than the B-36


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5311
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 7:21:08 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I have a secret fantasy that Frau Braun will be making rounds and stop and get out of her car to photograph a "dead branch" ..then..as she turns to go back to her 9 year old Mercedes, St Saul, the patron saint of gardeners will invoke the wrath of the big guy and silently bring the 400 lb branch down on her squarish but small head.

Is it wrong to harbor such thoughts?


Oh no, it is not. Unless, of course, you get a certain reaction to them . . .

But get a sculpture of a dead tree, painted realistically, then see what happens.

Also, those supposed weeds may actually be supporting wild bees that need help. It has been found that not using herbicides to kill those weeds have really helped various species of bees. Somewhere there is an app for a phone that will tell you what the plant is based upon a picture, then you can do research into the plant and see if any rare and/or threatened insects depend upon it. Then call in the environmentalists to help you.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 12/27/2020 7:31:09 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5312
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 7:25:46 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		You may be called as a witness if a certain HOA officer is stung by 10,000 Africanized bees.


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5313
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 7:29:15 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I give you the Seversky P-41 a stumpy F4F with unretractable landing gear.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5314
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 7:31:32 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I give you the Seversky P-41 a stumpy F4F with unretractable landing gear.






Looks like two tractors hooked up chains to each end of a Buffalo and stretched it. An aviation knock-off modified in appearance to hide the origin!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5315
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 7:37:19 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		P-42..a rewarmed P-36 with a drive shaft so long they could not manufacture the thing without a wobble.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5316
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 9:16:00 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I tried a couple of times to answer about the bees. Timed out and/or booted off the log in.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5317
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 9:32:07 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I give you the Seversky P-41 a stumpy F4F with unretractable landing gear.






Looks like two tractors hooked up chains to each end of a Buffalo and stretched it. An aviation knock-off modified in appearance to hide the origin!


That looks a little like a P-43 which they developed into the horrible P-47 concept . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5318
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/27/2020 9:40:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

What is up with the USAAF and the numbering of aircraft designs?

I realize this is a recurrent theme but why did they keep ordering aircraft designs that are notably WORSE than the previously ordered design?

The best examples are the B-17 and B-18? What the Hell? When they got the B-17 plans back from Boeing somebody should have said.."STOP! No more design contracts! This thing is freaking bitchen!"

Or the P-43??? WTF? How could anyone look at the drawings and not say "This thing looks like a flying sausage"

And what happened to the P-41 and P-42? Were they so bad the designers were ashamed to submit them?

Then the is the C-46 which is more capable than the C-47..and the B-29, which is 7 planes better than the B-36


It is very simple for the B-17 - it failed the testing. You see, someone forgot to unlock the flight controls but was able to take off but the plane crashed. So the B-18 won the competition but Boeing was given a contract for the B-17.

The P-43 developed into the P-47.

Many aircraft at that time as built to test certain concepts, then those concepts that proved themselves made it into another air craft. This as before modern, digital computers.

Also, as for the reason for so many dual designs the US military (more specifically the US Army) anted two different designs for the same job just in case one did not work out. Hence, the P-39 and the P-40.

North American was asked to produce the P-40 for the UK but they claimed that they could design and build their on aircraft within 100 days. Then, later on, someone put a British engine into the resulting Mustang . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5319
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/28/2020 2:24:48 PM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline 		There were far worse planes. Like the wooden one we tried. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH61hxGMSr0

_____________________________

There is no point in believing in things that exist. -Didactylos

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5320
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/28/2020 2:34:25 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		If they had only awarded more points for esthetics they would have been right most of the time. Flying specs should have been secondary

Spitfire, P-51, B-17..even the F8F in the blue paint scheme

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 12/28/2020 2:42:30 PM >

(in reply to Disco Duck)
Post #: 5321
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/28/2020 2:41:32 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		What they needed was a design guy like Ferrari hired, Pininfarina or a gay guy like the Nazis hired, Hugo Boss.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5322
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/28/2020 2:45:07 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Of course, this may have meant the P-47 was a no-go

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5323
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/28/2020 6:38:27 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I have a secret fantasy that Frau Braun will be making rounds and stop and get out of her car to photograph a "dead branch" ..then..as she turns to go back to her 9 year old Mercedes, St Saul, the patron saint of gardeners will invoke the wrath of the big guy and silently bring the 400 lb branch down on her squarish but small head.

Is it wrong to harbor such thoughts?

Only if you are Catholic.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5324
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:14:35 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I have a secret fantasy that Frau Braun will be making rounds and stop and get out of her car to photograph a "dead branch" ..then..as she turns to go back to her 9 year old Mercedes, St Saul, the patron saint of gardeners will invoke the wrath of the big guy and silently bring the 400 lb branch down on her squarish but small head.

Is it wrong to harbor such thoughts?

Only if you are Catholic.


George Carlin had a routine about that concept.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 5325
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:18:52 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		*****************June 17, 1943(e)*****************

New Guinea: A small IJN SCTF sneaks up on Hollandia. Again...the minesweepers are the most dangerous place to serve (except for Bataan)

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hollandia at 93,116, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Agano
DD Yamakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Amagiri
DD Sazanami

Allied Ships
YMS-383, Shell hits 3, and is sunk

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5326
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:20:50 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Pretty good performance by the small USN security force.

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hollandia at 93,116, Range 8,000 Yards. Stanley will have to go back to Rabaul.

Japanese Ships
CL Agano, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Yamakaze
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Amagiri, Shell hits 1
DD Sazanami

Allied Ships
DD Radford
DD Stanly, Shell hits 6, on fire
DD Barton

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5327
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:24:12 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I think Jumna is HMRIN..at least until 1950. Oh well...can't be helped. She achieves her highest duty as an ammo-eater.

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hollandia at 93,116, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Agano, Shell hits 1
DD Yamakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Amagiri
DD Sazanami

Allied Ships
SC PC-1080, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
PC Jumna, Shell hits 32, and is sunk

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5328
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:26:35 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Ballsy PT boat commander makes the Japs use up their last ammo. No night bombardment for YOU!

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hollandia at 93,116, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Agano, on fire
DD Yamakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Amagiri
DD Sazanami

Allied Ships
PT-242

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5329
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:28:11 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Take THAT-ah Agano! Rousy S-boat too! HAHAH!

quote:

Sub attack near Hollandia at 94,111

Japanese Ships
CL Agano, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sazanami

Allied Ships
SS S-39

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5330
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:31:15 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Sumatra: This is funny. I don't think the RAF was out of bed yet.

quote:

Morning Air attack on Sabang , at 44,70

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 27,560 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 29

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 1

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses[/quote]

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5331
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:33:20 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Jap bombers go after a single disabled squad of diggers trying to walk all the way to Sabang. Wah crime.

quote:

Morning Air attack on 21st Australian Brigade, at 46,78 , near Tandjoengbalai

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIb Sally x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIb Sally: 2 damaged

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5332
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:34:59 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		For some reason, most of the heavies from Moulmein refuse to attack Sumatran targets.

quote:

Morning Air attack on Sasebo 3rd SNLF, at 46,74 (Langsa)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 5
B-24D1 Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


and nobody can hit anything...

quote:

Morning Air attack on 91st Naval Guard Unit, at 46,74 (Langsa)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 3
B-24D Liberator x 9
B-24D1 Liberator x 16

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 12/29/2020 2:36:32 PM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5333
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:39:55 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Bataan: Bombardment by air and arty at Bataan. No ground assault. I'm getting out fragments of the HQ units and 182nd IR and Br No. 54 Brigade and 4th Marine. The PA and the arty and tanks have to stay behind.

quote:

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1904 troops, 159 guns, 118 vehicles, Assault Value = 775

Defending force 39630 troops, 451 guns, 298 vehicles, Assault Value = 375

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
211 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (3 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:
16th Division
28th Division
48th/A Division
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
25th Army
1st Art.Mortar Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
71st PA Infantry Division
632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion
31st PA Infantry Division
21st PA Infantry Division
54th British Brigade
4th Marine Regiment
4th Constabulary Regiment
57th PS Infantry Regiment
91st PA Infantry Division
182nd Infantry Regiment
103rd PA Infantry Regiment
31st Infantry Regiment
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
2nd Constabulary Regiment
51st PA Infantry Division
11th PA Infantry/B Division
45th PS Infantry Regiment
301st Construction Battalion
1st Constabulary Regiment
762nd Tank Battalion
11th PA Infantry/C Division
627th Tank Destroyer Battalion
4th PAAC Avn Sup
165th Field Artillery Battalion
Clark Field AAF Base Force
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
102nd PA Infantry Regiment
Far East USAAF
III/Prov'nl SPM Grp
Bataan USN Base Force
501st Coast AA Regiment
!/23rd PS FA Battalion
3rd Marine/A Div /2
27th Avn Sup /2
1st USMC AA Battalion
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
11th PA Infantry/A Division
11th PAAC Avn Sup
Manila Bay Defenses
I/Prov'nl SPM Grp
II/Prov'nl SPM Grp
2nd PA Infantry Regiment
24th PS FA Regiment
II Corps
US Forces Far East
86th PS Field Artillery Battalion

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5334
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 2:43:10 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Caroline Is: I have fake troop transport parading around Truk and Ponape to try to provoke a carrier battle but the KB won't come over to to play. I don't think they are going to fight over Truk or Ponape. I can't believe the same is true for Guam, however.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5335
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 12/29/2020 4:06:15 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		If any of those armoured units on Bataan have soft elements, those can be airlifted out. But keep bringing in supplies.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5336
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 1/2/2021 12:43:22 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If any of those armoured units on Bataan have soft elements, those can be airlifted out. But keep bringing in supplies.


Good suggestion. Unfortunately, the TD Bn's are down to 2 1/2 ton trucks and the Tank Bn is down to one Stuart. No foot mobile troops left in those units. Getting out the HQ guys, clerk/typists, aviation support and 182nd IR and Br 54 Brig remnants.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5337
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 1/2/2021 12:56:38 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Do you think that any part can be loaded into a SST? I have not tried that, maybe someone else knows whether or not they can be loaded onto a SST.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5338
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 1/2/2021 2:45:44 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Do you think that any part can be loaded into a SST? I have not tried that, maybe someone else knows whether or not they can be loaded onto a SST.

Unfortunately, the tanks and trucks cannot fit through the hatches. We blame the staff ...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5339
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 1/2/2021 3:08:08 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Do you think that any part can be loaded into a SST? I have not tried that, maybe someone else knows whether or not they can be loaded onto a SST.

Unfortunately, the tanks and trucks cannot fit through the hatches. We blame the staff ...





Then capture an I-boat with a Glen, toss the Glen overboard or fly it to a base, then load the vehicles!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5340
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