Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

An opportunity, yes.

Will it happen ? No.

Modern games require too much investment to be designed, and despite how much we* love this game and the amount of hours we spend on it, we don’t represent a market share large enough to allow a positive return on investment. Mobile gaming (particularly the « freemium » model) and VR are trending.

* « we » as in « we who play this game regularly and would spend another 80€/$, or even 100, for a new one » ; according to a psychological study I’ve read 2-3 years ago, the vast majority of gamers need instant or quasi-instant gratification, and won’t have the patience (and analytical state of mind) required to learn WitP-AE, let alone play a full campaign.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Not only with digital games either. The study was a PhD thesis on gaming as a whole, including video, boardgames and RPG’s (and not in the rocket sense). Or a draft, rather (I was proofreading it for a friend). Globally, he found the « population » of gamers was expanding, and diversifying, and that both the budget devoted to buying games was increasing (on a per capita basis) and the time spent playing (for adults) too, but also that the life expectancy of each game individually was drastically decreasing. Regarding boardgames for example, the thematics were greatly diversifying, with more games being published every year than the previous year, but developers were keeping the rules sufficiently similar, to allow players to essentially plug & play with only a couple minutes devoted to reading the rules. There are exceptions, but game designers often are cautious with the « big games » (hence the development of kickstarter campaigns, for example, therefore limiting the risks).

Which is exactly what Cohen_slith pointed in regards to WitE : any wargamer will quickly grasp the basics about the units. So, there is a market indeed, but rather small compared to the market for freemium mobile games or for FPS, where most of the money goes, and competition will keep fierce. The Paradox games are probably as complex as 90% for the strategy game players are ready to go, but they’re also way easier to understand, and simplify aspects most players would not consider fun.

As you say, we belong to a rather small subset of an already minority subset of players. For a game company to develop a WitP2, with the level of details we’d expect, they probably would have to sell individual copies starting at 200€/$... but then, I suspect a lot of prospective players wouldn’t buy the game (or would keep playing AE), which would keep pushing the price up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Not only with digital games either. The study was a PhD thesis on gaming as a whole, including video, boardgames and RPG’s (and not in the rocket sense). Or a draft, rather (I was proofreading it for a friend). Globally, he found the « population » of gamers was expanding, and diversifying, and that both the budget devoted to buying games was increasing (on a per capita basis) and the time spent playing (for adults) too, but also that the life expectancy of each game individually was drastically decreasing. Regarding boardgames for example, the thematics were greatly diversifying, with more games being published every year than the previous year, but developers were keeping the rules sufficiently similar, to allow players to essentially plug & play with only a couple minutes devoted to reading the rules. There are exceptions, but game designers often are cautious with the « big games » (hence the development of kickstarter campaigns, for example, therefore limiting the risks).

Which is exactly what Cohen_slith pointed in regards to WitE : any wargamer will quickly grasp the basics about the units. So, there is a market indeed, but rather small compared to the market for freemium mobile games or for FPS, where most of the money goes, and competition will keep fierce. The Paradox games are probably as complex as 90% for the strategy game players are ready to go, but they’re also way easier to understand, and simplify aspects most players would not consider fun.

As you say, we belong to a rather small subset of an already minority subset of players. For a game company to develop a WitP2, with the level of details we’d expect, they probably would have to sell individual copies starting at 200€/$... but then, I suspect a lot of prospective players wouldn’t buy the game (or would keep playing AE), which would keep pushing the price up.

Many years ago (before 2014), a newbie came to the forum complaining that AE lacked this and that. During that discussion, this individual stated that he would be willing to fund a mod/scenario to meet his expectations.

Well that was far too good a prospect of matching reality with dreaming for JWE/Symon, so he offered to produce the bespoke mod/scenario. All that was required to start the work was for an initial sum of $USD 30k to be transferred to his account. Needless to say the newbie thought that quantum was outrageous, and after JWE/Symon pointed out the market rates for computer professionals and the manhours involved in producing the bespoke mod/scenario, the newbie disqppeared, never to be seen again on the forum.

Now expand that single mod/scenario to a complete game. Remember that JWE/Symon's quote was at special mates rates, IOW well under real world market rates.

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


I don’t think we there will be another WITP-AE 2.

Unfortunately there is a much better chance of another Pearl Harbor type of attack.

But…we can be grateful that CNN was not around in 1941.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Maybe someone with knowledge of the game and coding will put up a thread describing just how inexpensive it will be to make these changes that people want - presuming that all relevant game designers can/will agree to these changes. Then this thread could be stickied and see if people are willing to pay up front until enough money is collected - adjusting things for inflation as well as the expected cost overruns due to delays.