Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: GloriousRuse

Losses- predominantly these concern Russian losses. It takes some very aggressive German play (or a disaster) to make their losses substantial enough to significantly alter the outcome. The one exception might be panzers, as the state of the panzerwaffe often determines the German ability to move dynamically rather than enter a slog fest on the offense, and their ability to buttress a line and react defensively since they can rarely afford depth to the degree the Russian can.

Less than 3.7M Russian losses in '41 is going to generally be a bad sign for the Germans and will generally result in a stronger and earlier winter offensive as well as a harder spring of '42, while more than 4M is a very strong position to be in come winter, forcing the Russian player into a choice between pushing the winter offensive hard or building for spring since he no longer has the men to do both.

VPs- the game is, in all but a curb stomp, not going to end in '41. The German player's real chance to either put it away or play for the minor victory by Dec '44 comes in '42. Generally speaking, the Germans need to have 56 more points than their historical counterparts to win, or reach a mere 14 points more than their counterparts to exceed the Russian historical score as of Jan '45. Other than capturing Leningrad, Moscow, or the Tula-Tambov-Ryazan triangle, the single biggest chunk of those VP is going to come in '41 based on speed. A German who is on average 1-2 weeks ahead of history will be in a very competitive position for '42 and the long game, while one who is 1-2 weeks behind is going to be in a position where he really has to make '42 count or hope he can hold Berlin through August '45...which is not, from anything we've seen, anywhere near as easy as WitE1.

Prisoners- not wildly relevant. They help out with Hiwis, but mostly this is a loss subset.

AFVs - if the Germans ever drop below 50% ready AFVs then their panzers are going to be quite vulnerable to counterattack even when they still have offensive potential, and below 1000 ready AFVs they're just hanging on. At a sort of macro level, the Germans start '41 producing around 135 AFVs a week, so losing more than that is a good indicator of a week that will have long lasting consequences for the panzers until they can hit an operational pause. If the soviets are ever leading the Germans by less than 2,000 tanks the balance of armor in the east is distinctly against them for the moment.

Calling it - Situational. A November-December drive really has one of two goals: pick up VPs, or cull the Red Army. If you're below 575, aiming to cross that line and thereby ensure you won't be knocked out in '42 seems well worth it. After that it becomes a judgment call versus culling the Red Army so they don't put 500k "free" men into their ranks while you dig. But generally, if you're pulling off before mid-November you really have to have a good reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

What is your opinion of a good measure of success or lack thereof for both sides? A dicy question that is full of pitfalls, I know.

Casualties?
Historical Advance Rates objectives captured?
Prisoners taken or lost?
AFV Availability?

When as Germany would you "halt" for the winter? (Edit Added) Playing the Germans, I feel you CANNOT stop till the weather forces you to, because if you let the Russian sit, they are dug in to level 2 forts and are really hard to dig out. So the pressure stays on, no matter what, with few exceptions for units desperate for rest or replacements. Is this advisable?

As Russia, can I preserve my Army, and just let the Germans have what want they want till the strain of logistics finally halts them? With the Exceptions of Leningrad and Moscow, which I think you have to fight for.