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RE: Unescorted ground support and R.A.D. groups

 
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RE: Unescorted ground support and R.A.D. groups - 4/11/2021 6:43:11 PM   
Bronze

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmm....
1) I feel I have read all pertinent sections of the manual relating to the air game at least twice but not finding anything explaining air doctrine (figures 18-3 and 17-36) % to fly, Mission and Escort aircraft percentages and how to use/understand them in regards to ESCORTING ground support missions. I have also watched several You-tube videos

2) quite odd as the ones attached to an army do not have to be adjacent to a FBD unit but the corps attached ones do? Unable to upload a picture :(

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 241
RE: Unescorted ground support and R.A.D. groups - 4/11/2021 8:00:28 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Bronze:

1) 37.16.9 pg 737 of the manual. It describes the Air Doctrine screen and what it all means. I think that should answer your questions.

2) No, the RR repair units WILL NOT deploy adjacent to a FBD unit regardless of what HQ they are assigned to.

An example from my AAR shows them working correctly:





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 242
RE: Unescorted ground support and R.A.D. groups - 4/11/2021 8:53:09 PM   
Bronze

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Holy $^&&$ - I got to the Evolution of Armor and thought the manual ended there with pertinent game mechanics. Thank you!!!

So Mis Pct and Esc Pct are synonymous with Mission AC Pct and Escort AC Pct (I think they are but it's not spelled out). This then brings us to a bug or a manual misprint: (pg. 473) "If this (Mis Pct and Esc Pct) is set at 100% it will pick the
number it thinks it needs and if these are lacking then that mission WILL NOT take place."

With both Mis Pct and Esc Pct set at 100%, the first ground support missions will fly with escorts. Later into the turn ground attacks in the same area (in this case my drive on Leningrad) will result in 90 to 100% A2A losses for my unescorted bombers. The escorts are lacking but the mission WILL take place.

Probably the wrong thread but perhaps this is just my perception, the kill ratios are a little insane as a Ju-88 is much faster than an I-15 which are the largest amount of interceptors and rack up a bunch of kills while the bombers with very experienced, high moral crews, rarely have even 1 kill despite near 100% losses on a 60 to 120 bombers in the mission.

< Message edited by Bronze -- 4/11/2021 9:20:42 PM >

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Post #: 243
RE: Unescorted ground support and R.A.D. groups - 4/11/2021 8:56:58 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline 		I attached Flieger Ostee air group to the Romanian Combat Command AOG under Luftflotte 4 but it seemed to make the Flieger Ostee air group disappear. The individual squadrons are still there but not selectable under Ostee AOG, anymore. Any way to fix this or should I just never move air groups between AOGs to prevent this?

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Post #: 244
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/11/2021 9:16:57 PM   
briklebritt

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 3/28/2021
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: briklebritt

Short question - "Army Group Center" has directly assigned a single "SS Cavalry Brigade" which is 6 hexes away from "Army Group Center". It shows me "out of range" and marked with a red border at the map. I thought Army Groups got a command range of 90 hexes? Why i this Cavalry Brigade shown out of range?

When a CU is assigned under direct command of an army group - in order to get support units assigned in battle, is it using its 90 command range or has it always to be 5 hexes (no matter if it is a army HQ or a corps HQ)?


there are two parts to the command range, if the HQ is the direct command then it is only 5 hexes to control any unit or directly assign SUs etc. Higher HQs longer ranges come into play when they are not the direct command to the unit in combat or looking for leadership

loki, I read the manual but I still got some more questions. Would be very helpful for me to get some answers here. Thanks!

You wrote, Higher HQs longer range comes into play in combat - perhaps I miss something, but is there another thing which a CU can benefit from a HQ in combat besides the leader bonus the CU gets from its HQ (down the chain of command)?

When in chain of command, does the CU only get bonuses from its direct HQ or from the HQ above its direct HQ too? So, does the CUs bonus adds up the chain of command?

As I read in manual, the most important aspect to the HQ range is the support squad value. An CU gets help (support squads) from its direct HQ if it has left support squads in current turn. Does this only work with the CUs direct HQ, or does a higher HQ in chain of command also help the CU with support squads when it is in range?

Are needed support squads send down the chain of command from highest to lowest HQ? It has nothing to do with depots, right?

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Post #: 245
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/11/2021 9:32:36 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		leadership values as they pass down the chain of command are in 15.5.2 and 15.5.3. its too complex to repeat here and there's not much to add to the tables and examples in those sections.

not really, for many leader tests the role of the command chain is to pick up tests that failed at the more immediate level (hence its best to look at those sections)

all (so again, those sections)

support squads go down the full chain of command, so if a lower level unit/HQ is short it can pick up what is missing that way. Not so important for the Germans as they tend to have a good basic allocation, fairly important for the Soviets

no depots are outside this

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Post #: 246
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/11/2021 9:42:05 PM   
Milman

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Serbia
Status: offline 		Do HQ units and disrupted units escape when they are pocketed and isolated ? I am sometimes in situation that i need to go near them to close pocket so i would like to know are they flee pocket anyway.

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Post #: 247
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/11/2021 11:04:50 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		The HQs will flee regardless of being in a pocket or not. However there is a good chance to kill the commander with each displacement. If the hex is isolated (you cut them off and then an enemy logistics phase goes by and they are still cut off in your turn) then routed units will shatter/surrender.

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/12/2021 4:50:20 AM   
briklebritt

 

Posts: 125
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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

support squads go down the full chain of command, so if a lower level unit/HQ is short it can pick up what is missing that way. Not so important for the Germans as they tend to have a good basic allocation, fairly important for the Soviets



Thanks loki for answering. This helps a lot. Still one question.. does a unit or HQ only gets support squads from its direct assigned HQ up the chain of command when it needs help or can it get support squads from any HQ which is in range, regardless of whether it is the direct HQ or f.e. a HQ two levels above?

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Post #: 249
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/12/2021 7:16:59 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		its the chain of command, not any HQ

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Post #: 250
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/12/2021 10:17:53 AM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Am I missing any tricks on the mass handling of SUs?

Players in AARs talk about sending all SUs to Stavka, or all <50% toe to stavka for example.

Are there efficient ways to do this, or in the case of sending all SUs to stavka does one painstakingly have to reassign one by one?

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/12/2021 10:28:05 AM   
M60A3TTS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter

Am I missing any tricks on the mass handling of SUs?

Players in AARs talk about sending all SUs to Stavka, or all <50% toe to stavka for example.

Are there efficient ways to do this, or in the case of sending all SUs to stavka does one painstakingly have to reassign one by one?


To move all support units to Stavka, go to HQ tab of Commanders Report.

Just above AC column, see Support Level? Click on that and set to 0. Then click Supl on Stavka. Type 9. That will move them beginning next turn.

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Post #: 252
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/12/2021 10:47:19 AM   
squatter

 

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Status: offline 		Brilliant - thanks m60.

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/13/2021 6:28:19 AM   
Rosencrantus

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Where exactly can you go to see the amount of damaged equipment/manpower again? I saw it once before but now I have forgotten.

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/13/2021 8:02:41 AM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus

Where exactly can you go to see the amount of damaged equipment/manpower again? I saw it once before but now I have forgotten.


not quite sure what you mean.

In a given battle you can see existing damaged elements (front screen) and those damaged in that battle.

For a particular unit, you can see how many damaged elements it currently has (detailed unit tab)

At a global level you can see how many damaged elements for a national group/faction on the OOB screen

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/13/2021 8:15:32 AM   
Rosencrantus

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Sorry for not being clear but you've answered my questions. Thanks

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 9:19:46 AM   
Stephan61

 

Posts: 60
Joined: 3/3/2021
Status: offline 		May have been asked before, but being lazy.

Is there a toggle or hot key that will remove the Unit Counters from the screen whilst I look at the logistics situation and plane transfers etc.

Cant seem to find one.

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Post #: 257
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 10:41:20 AM   
dudefan

 

Posts: 139
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Status: offline 		T

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Post #: 258
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 11:20:10 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		also from the tool bar, as:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 259
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 11:38:52 AM   
dudefan

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/26/2021
Status: offline 		February 42 and my luftflotte 2 is gone! I pulled all planes to Reserve during blizzard and now the whole Luftflotte 2 AOG gone also. ..Can i bring it back?

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Post #: 260
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 11:42:01 AM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dudefan

February 42 and my luftflotte 2 is gone! I pulled all planes to Reserve during blizzard and now the whole Luftflotte 2 AOG gone also. ..Can i bring it back?


Nope. It's a scheduled withdrawal. I think if you have enhanced player TB control you can get some of it back but I don't play with that setting.

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 11:44:41 AM   
dudefan

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/26/2021
Status: offline 		So i can plan directives only with luftflotte 1+4?

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Post #: 262
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 11:46:02 AM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dudefan

So i can plan directives only with luftflotte 1+4?


Yes, welcome to 1942 life as Germany on the East Front. It sucks, but you have to learn to focus your air power on one sector. Germans used almost all their eastern front airpower just for Case Blue in mid 1942, which is the AGS front.

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 12:17:52 PM   
dudefan

 

Posts: 139
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Status: offline 		Thx

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Post #: 264
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 1:57:32 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
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Status: offline 		You get Luftwaffen Kdo East in early 42. That's a Luftflotte in all but name.

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 3:56:59 PM   
James80

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/27/2021
Status: offline 		I played the scenario RtL a few times. Now I switched over to operation typhoon. Since turn 4 a lot of my units have a cv <3. The ToE seems okayish. But - oh boy - it is raining hefty. And there is heavy mud everywhere. Is this the reason for the bad CV? Is this taken into acoount?

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Post #: 266
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 4:10:04 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: James80

I played the scenario RtL a few times. Now I switched over to operation typhoon. Since turn 4 a lot of my units have a cv <3. The ToE seems okayish. But - oh boy - it is raining hefty. And there is heavy mud everywhere. Is this the reason for the bad CV? Is this taken into acoount?


Yea there's a steep penalty for CV for heavy mud, further modified by road level. Page 482 in manual has table. On good roads it's 50% penalty, on average it's 75%, on poor it's 87.5%. Very hard to do any attacking in heavy mud, but usually you can find some light mud hexes in between. Note these penalties are calculated based on ATTACKING hex, not defending.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/14/2021 4:11:22 PM >

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 4:20:19 PM   
James80

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/27/2021
Status: offline 		Thanks, Bamilus. The soviet Winter has hit me hard!

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 5:27:04 PM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Just wondering how much Soviet players tend to use 'merge' units function in the summer of 41?

Is it a rare event, or something you look to do whenever you can to build stronger units?

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Post #: 269
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 4/14/2021 6:12:14 PM   
M60A3TTS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter

Just wondering how much Soviet players tend to use 'merge' units function in the summer of 41?

Is it a rare event, or something you look to do whenever you can to build stronger units?


The thing to note there is that the AP cost of Soviet divisions goes from 8 to 2 at the end of 1941. So if you think you can wait until then to replace the ones you lost, it can be a valid tactic.

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