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Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 10:02:09 AM

DorianGray

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Joined: 8/2/2008
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Sorry guys, but WiTE2 is just a qualified mess.

Doing simple things like:

1. Scrolling the map;
2. Hiding all the aircraft clutter;
3. Font Adjustment;
4. SU assignment;
5. Air Recon missions;
6. Airbase assault missions;
7. ...

are either completely absent or simply a pain to do now.

Even the non-playable intro movies from WiTE were carried over and not fixed for WiTE2. Seriously?

This is even before delving into the technical aspects of the game....

Just let me have my $70+ back and you can have your game until it is really complete and ready for the masses... maybe a year or two. I have no interest in beta testing or an early access release and thought it was a finished product.

Best of luck to you guys.

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Post #: 1

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 10:42:25 AM

GBoggon

Posts: 32
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Have you tried Risk ?

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Post #: 2

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 11:06:06 AM

coolts

Posts: 391
Joined: 2/1/2011
From: Auf Wiedersehen, Pet
Status: offline

2. Hiding all the aircraft clutter;

Press "A"

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Post #: 3

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 11:35:27 AM

Zovs

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1. Use the mouse, whatever direction you point your mouse towards the map scrolls, alternatively use the arrow keys, moves the map the same way.
2. Press 'a', but it looks like you have not even pressed F12 to run the air execution phase to move on to the ground phase.
3. You can change all the fonts to your liking, see my post in https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4988051
4. You can do it manually or automatically. Suggest you read the manual, it's pretty easy both ways.
5. Really easy to setup, you should read the manual or read what others have posted.
6. There is no mission called airbase assault, your probably referring to ground attack which you can setup to attack airfields.
7. I am guessing that your post is a joke and your just being silly, if not then you either really don't understand how war games work or your being a troll

Suggest you read the manual and read other posts here and actually ask legitimate questions on how to do things rather than post some like this.

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Post #: 4

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 11:42:51 AM

Bamilus

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I think you're ready for the manual instead of a refund.

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Post #: 5

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 12:44:00 PM

Denniss

Posts: 7902
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RTFM - (just 4 letters required to answer this)

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Post #: 6

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 1:35:17 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

RTFM - (just 4 letters required to answer this)

This. This. And more of this.

It isn't a beer and pretzel game, DorianGray.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 4/23/2021 1:37:10 PM >

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RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 2:04:32 PM

Slush

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Danmark
Status: offline

Obviously, the OP is a bit dramatic.

But - and here it comes - even though I love WitE2 to bits and had my fair share of fun with WitE1 and WitW, I think it's fair to say that much of the initial gameplay revolves around fighting the UI instead of the AI. A lot of thought has evidently gone into the game, the research, the rules. Sometimes, in the dark of night, I wish that just a little bit of it had gone into a UI built upon long-established standards for user interfaces.

Just one example. The CR - that wonderful tool with it's weird layers of buttons. Why on earth can't I shift/CTRL select multiple units and right-click for actions? That would be a massive quality of life improvement.

So, yeah, drama queen. But a drama queen with a bit of a point.

Anyway, back to planning the defence of Smolensk.

Rgds, Slush

< Message edited by Slush -- 4/23/2021 2:05:45 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 2:23:50 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

RTFM - (just 4 letters required to answer this)

This. This. And more of this.

It isn't a beer and pretzel game, DorianGray.

�You can�t teach people to be lazy � either they have it, or they don�t.�- Dagwood Bumstead

This is what I thought when I saw the original first post of this thread.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 4/23/2021 2:27:23 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:05:45 PM

Karri

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Joined: 5/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slush

Obviously, the OP is a bit dramatic.

But - and here it comes - even though I love WitE2 to bits and had my fair share of fun with WitE1 and WitW, I think it's fair to say that much of the initial gameplay revolves around fighting the UI instead of the AI. A lot of thought has evidently gone into the game, the research, the rules. Sometimes, in the dark of night, I wish that just a little bit of it had gone into a UI built upon long-established standards for user interfaces.

Just one example. The CR - that wonderful tool with it's weird layers of buttons. Why on earth can't I shift/CTRL select multiple units and right-click for actions? That would be a massive quality of life improvement.

So, yeah, drama queen. But a drama queen with a bit of a point.

Anyway, back to planning the defence of Smolensk.

Rgds, Slush

The designers and the core player base are...well, how would I put this...old. Very old. They love taking their time to do stuff. It really shows in a lot of the actions you need to take. Some of them don't even move the counters before they've read the entire unit history by at least three different publishers.

"You're just lazy"

No grandpa, I just happen to know that with a big of UI design it's possible to do this task with two clicks instead of the thousands clicks it takes now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

�You can�t teach people to be lazy � either they have it, or they don�t.�- Dagwood Bumstead

This is what I thought when I saw the original first post of this thread.

�I will always choose a lazy person to do a difficult job because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.�

< Message edited by Karri -- 4/23/2021 3:07:14 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:08:31 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
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I'm 31 and been playing wargames since i was 10. Speak for yourself. And no one is saying they enjoy the spreadsheet UI. But they've made improvements and continue to do so.

The problem is people play this game and expect it be beer and pretzels like HOI or SC. Its not. I don't play World in Flames board game. Why? Too much time and detail. But I don't criticize it for those reasons because I get not every game is going to be a 3 hour one setting play a la Risk. There's lots of things WITE2 can improve but everything OP posted is just false.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/23/2021 3:29:03 PM >

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RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:12:12 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

I'm 31 and been playing wargames since i was 10. Speak for yourself. And no one is saying they enjoy the spreadsheet UI. But theyve made improvements and continue to do so.

I like the game, but I think the fanboys are so forgiving simply because there is no other option in the genre. WitE 2 is the first time I've opened a manual in like 15 years.

quote:

The problem is people play this game and expect it be beer and pretzels like HOI or SC. Its not. I dont pkay World in Flames board game. Why? Too nuch time and detail. But I dont criticize it for those reasoms because I get not every game is going to be a 3 hour one setting play a la Risk. Theres lots of things WITE2 can improve but everything OP posted is just false.

The aiirwar is a pain in the ass, and comes with tons of settings that are completely useless. They should have taken a more beer and pretzel approach, rather than allowing you to select loadouts and altitudes. Not to mention the support unit assignment, which definitely needs a rework. Like I said, if you like taking your time tinkering around with every little bit of detail, then you probably don't mind those things. But I just want to add a pioneer battalion to my infantry division without having to browse through commanders report for half an hour...

< Message edited by Karri -- 4/23/2021 3:15:34 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:16:07 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
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From: The Old Northwest
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

I'm 31 and been playing wargames since i was 10. Speak for yourself. And no one is saying they enjoy the spreadsheet UI. But theyve made improvements and continue to do so.

I like the game, but I think the fanboys are so forgiving simply because there is no other option in the genre. WitE 2 is the first time I've opened a manual in like 15 years.

I don't think anyone is forgiving. The game gets **** on like no other, it's hilarious. People criticize because it's not beer and pretzels and then people criticize because they have one unit who has like 30 less men than historically, or the freight is off by 5 tons in one city. So you really can't appease anyone because half the pop wants the game to be HOI where you literally just let the AI do everything and don't play, or they want it to be The Campaign for North Africa and make the game take 10,000 hours to play.

quote:

The aiirwar is a pain in the ass, and comes with tons of settings that are completely useless. They should have taken a more beer and pretzel approach, rather than allowing you to select loadouts and altitudes. Not to mention the support unit assignment, which definitely needs a rework. Like I said, if you like taking your time tinkering around with every little bit of detail, then you probably don't mind those things. But I just want to add a pioneer battalion to my infantry division without having to browse through commanders report for half an hour...

I do manual air war, don't mess with loadouts, don't mess with CR (other than 1m a turn, tops) and get good results. So, have to disagree there tbh. Plus you can literally pass that all to the AI if you desire or do a hybrid. Loadouts/altitude/upgrades are all set to auto by default. You don't have to mess with that unless you want to.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/23/2021 3:18:17 PM >

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RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:33:30 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

I don't think anyone is forgiving. The game gets **** on like no other, it's hilarious. People criticize because it's not beer and pretzels and then people criticize because they have one unit who has like 30 less men than historically, or the freight is off by 5 tons in one city. So you really can't appease anyone because half the pop wants the game to be HOI where you literally just let the AI do everything and don't play, or they want it to be The Campaign for North Africa and make the game take 10,000 hours to play.

When the answer is "you're lazy" and "mod it yourself" and "read the manual", it kinda is forgiving. The game definitely doesn't get **** on at all...or at least I haven't noticed it. No one has even brought up the AI yet...

quote:

I do manual air war, don't mess with loadouts, don't mess with CR (other than 1m a turn, tops) and get good results. So, have to disagree there tbh. Plus you can literally pass that all to the AI if you desire or do a hybrid. Loadouts/altitude/upgrades are all set to auto by default. You don't have to mess with that unless you want to.

And if I pass it to the AI, what happens? How come I cannot select the parameters that the Air Assist works with? For example, say I only want it to create recon missions. Or I want it to only move the planes forwards. At its current state, the game has a lot of things happening that you know absolutely nothing about. There's a disconnect that will probably be fixed in time.

And who does mess with loaudouts? It's exactly what I am saying, a completely unnecessary level of detail that simply complicates things. It's not a beer and pretzels game, but it could be.

Say, if you want to check your fighter coverage along the whole front, what are you going to do? The team has added gigantic amount of information for the player, but the tools to use that information are still missing. It's like running Google with punch cards at times...

< Message edited by Karri -- 4/23/2021 3:36:25 PM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:36:02 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline

You can change the parameters the AI air works with, it's called air doctrines.

Also, if you don't have AI assist button set on game options then you can always manually press AI Air button and then make tweaks after, before end of turn.

The reason why people say "read the manual" is because it is a complex game, and everything OP stated are very easily answered by the manual. It's unfair for me to bust out World in Flames on my 8x10 foot table and then complain because it's not Risk and I have to actually understand the game to play.

Yes, WITE2 can show data better. Yes, it's has errors and bugs. But there's a difference between that and just asking for it to be Strategic Command or HOI. It's not, nor will it ever be, just like A3R, Totaler Krieg, and World in Flames will never be Risk, nor should they.

EDIT: To answer your edit, to see fighter coverage you select "Rng Circles" on any air fleet/air command/air group/air unit card, or (I believe, off top my head) you can also do it via right click map pop-up menu. Shows you the range and the name of the unit on the range, so you can clearly, easily, and visually see what your fighter range is.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/23/2021 3:39:29 PM >

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RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:40:06 PM

Numdydar

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I find this thread pretty funny.

I cannot even play the game due the font sizes and zoom levels not readable for me. I have to wait until this is fixed which is likely to take a month at least. At least you can play the game

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Post #: 16

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:41:15 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
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I mean there's always going to be people with technical issues, but I have no issue with DPI scaling. A lot of that is hardware. Not saying your issue isn't legit, but there's people every day that have issues with Windows 10 and Iphones. Firmware/drivers/hardware compatibility is always an issue.

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RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:54:25 PM

Numdydar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

I mean there's always going to be people with technical issues, but I have no issue with DPI scaling. A lot of that is hardware. Not saying your issue isn't legit, but there's people every day that have issues with Windows 10 and Iphones. Firmware/drivers/hardware compatibility is always an issue.

I have three personal PCs at home (don't ask lol) and I tested the game on all of them with all the various setting suggested by Joel/Erik. Only on one of these would I consider the game playable using the System Enhanced setting.

So two PCs out of three the games was unplayable and the third had to be 'hacked' to work. I should not have to change DPI setting to get a game to work. This game is the ONLY one I had to do that to out of all the other Matrix and other publisher games I own.

I know you are trying to help, but it is not just as simple as you make it out to be. It is a much bigger issue than it looks.

And a huge thanks to the team for recognizing this and trying to take steps to resolve it.

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Post #: 18

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 3:57:26 PM

Bamilus

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I agree, but it's subjective. I have zero DPI scaling issues on UHD/4K, so I would hesitate to say it's on their end or is a wide-spread issue. But it sucks you're having it and hopefully they can get it resolved.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/23/2021 3:58:29 PM >

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RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 4:12:45 PM

Numdydar

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Exactly lol. You have no issues so it must be me

See my screenshots in this thread and see what you think.

Also I am definitely not the only one with this issue. Which is why they are working on a fix.

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Post #: 20

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 4:13:48 PM

Gerry58

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This is a great game, you have to invest some time in it but it is very rewarding.I don't have any problem running it

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Post #: 21

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 4:14:26 PM

Helpless

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quote:

See my screenshots in this thread and see what you think.

They are perfectly crisp and clear on my screen.

quote:

Also I am definitely not the only one with this issue.

So far you are the only one who reported and still experiencing it.

< Message edited by Helpless -- 4/23/2021 4:15:19 PM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 4:31:47 PM

Zovs

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The way my system works is that my Windows 10 is running in a VM as a guest of a Mac host. The default display scaling is set to 350% and I am using 3840x2160 for all my gaming needs.

This an all other games generally work fine out of the box, some games I have to change the dpi settings from application to system and then all is well.

The only reason I created a custom font file is because I am an old board war gamer from the 70's and I prefer the fonts of the old board war games from GDW and SPI. My font's are about as close of match as I can get right now to recreate that look and feel. For all the reports and charts, I used a font called Hack font, by trade I am a web developer and just like that font, so I used it for things like the wite wiki and other reports.

Some hack fonts usage:

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Post #: 23

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 4:59:57 PM

Erik Rutins

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I think the original posters points have been addressed. The discussion of scaling and 4k systems should be put in to this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991284

Pre-release, the System (Enhanced) setting there worked to resolve it for all our testers on 4k systems. Post-release, we realized that some customers were not satisfied with that solution and for their systems, we have embarked on a major engine upgrade to fully support in-application scaling. This is really a significant effort, but we're making good progress and a beta version should be available in the next month.

Numdydar, I'm not aware of anyone else reporting being unable to play due to scaling issues. Others have reported that System (Enhanced) per the exact settings in the thread linked above are less sharp than they'd like, which the in-app scaling will resolve, but otherwise it works fine. We've also tested the System (Enhanced) scaling on our 4k systems and the dev team's 4k systems and it works fine. We're also testing the new in-app scaling on those and it will be even better once complete, but if you can't play at all please work with us in that thread so that we can help you get to a playable state.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 24

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 5:14:44 PM

actrade

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Sigh....I remember the joy of playing Falcon 4.0 the first time with its wonderfully large manual. I get that same joy out of WiTE2. And yes, I'm old (55). Different strokes for different folks. I'm just glad there are still game makers around like these guys!

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Post #: 25

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 5:17:36 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
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Agreed. I got into WW2 strategy games in 1986 via my Father and thank god for companies, producers, designers etc that still make them. It�s a niche market, for sure, but it�s great to see a focussed company and people working hard to still produce and release them

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Post #: 26

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 6:53:34 PM

LarryP

Posts: 3783
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From: Carson City, NV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DorianGray

Sorry guys, but WiTE2 is just a qualified mess.

Doing simple things like:

1. Scrolling the map;
2. Hiding all the aircraft clutter;
3. Font Adjustment;
4. SU assignment;
5. Air Recon missions;
6. Airbase assault missions;
7. ...

are either completely absent or simply a pain to do now.

Even the non-playable intro movies from WiTE were carried over and not fixed for WiTE2. Seriously?

This is even before delving into the technical aspects of the game....

Just let me have my $70+ back and you can have your game until it is really complete and ready for the masses... maybe a year or two. I have no interest in beta testing or an early access release and thought it was a finished product.

Best of luck to you guys.

Huh?!

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Post #: 27

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 6:55:56 PM

Remmes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
So two PCs out of three the games was unplayable and the third had to be 'hacked' to work. I should not have to change DPI setting to get a game to work.

I have 2 PC's and a laptop at home and the game works flawlessly on all three of them without any adaptations. It might not be optimized for every system but it sure ain't broke.

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Post #: 28

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 7:09:18 PM

speedyglides

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It is a awesome game, but it is true the UI is not the best out there. I think the main problem is that it is based on information showing instead of the workflows the player needs to work on. Information is very detailed, but a few times it is distributed in different places. The interaction is then added over the information layer or, sometimes, you just need to come back to units or other places to change things. This does not mean every task is a nightmare. The CR still helps a lot, but there are still room for improvement for a few things. A good example is SUs management. It is very difficult to have a good picture of the distribution across HQs units and very cumbersome to redistribute them.

It is not an easy thing, as the level of detail and complexity is huge, but a workflow paradigm based on player management tasks could improve it.

BTW, setting the scroll speed to 1 makes a real difference

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Post #: 29

RE: Ready for refund - 4/23/2021 7:13:20 PM

Hanny

Posts: 422
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quote:

ORIGINAL: speedyglides

It is a awesome game, but it is true the UI is not the best out there. I think the main problem is that it is based on information showing instead of the workflows the player needs to work on. Information is very detailed, but a few times it is distributed in different places. The interaction is then added over the information layer or, sometimes, you just need to come back to units or other places to change things. This does not mean every task is a nightmare. The CR still helps a lot, but there are still room for improvement for a few things. A good example is SUs management. It is very difficult to have a good picture of the distribution across HQs units and very cumbersome to redistribute them.

It is not an easy thing, as the level of detail and complexity is huge, but a workflow paradigm based on player management tasks could improve it.

BTW, setting the scroll speed to 1 makes a real difference

Its post like this that make we wish for a like button.

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Post #: 30

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Ready for refund