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Trucks... - 4/11/2021 9:49:51 PM   
Jeff_Ahl

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 10/10/2018
Status: offline 		Got a good grip on the game, but one thing that should be easy is an annoying problem for me. I can not find the truck pool where I can see how many trucks I have in the "main" pool.
Post #: 1
RE: Trucks... - 4/11/2021 11:06:33 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Check the Production screen - right hand side towards the bottom:





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Post #: 2
RE: Trucks... - 4/12/2021 7:22:34 AM   
Jeff_Ahl

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 10/10/2018
Status: offline 		Thanks!

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Post #: 3
RE: Trucks... - 4/12/2021 7:29:04 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		also comes up on the turn summary tables:






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Post #: 4
RE: Trucks... - 4/12/2021 7:38:23 AM   
Jeff_Ahl

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 10/10/2018
Status: offline 		Ah, there as well.

Thanks.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 5
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 8:01:01 AM   
Medicusa

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/24/2019
Status: offline 		But this doesnt work. If you want to know how many trucks you have then this number only shows trucks in pool that are ready but not available as one said in the forum. I constantly have trucks in the pool and still miss these thousands of pool trucks in my depots where they use unit trucks instead. We really need an overview of trucks ready AND available. It is frustrating to see each turn you have trucks in the pool but they are not used.

(in reply to Jeff_Ahl)
Post #: 6
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 8:15:11 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		as before, there is a huge amount influencing what is shown in the pool in any one turn and the system looks to keep some reserve simply to make it work. The tables below all key off the active truck numbers.

As you can see its all over the place as I advance, create new depots, alter my depot system and also the interaction between truck losses and what I capture.

Given this is T11, I'm using 45,000 of my 323,000 unit trucks in the supply system. Not exactly a surprise given where some of my units are deployed.






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Post #: 7
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 8:54:25 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline 		You cant see it because all the trucks are in the way.....Games gives all trucks 2.5 tons carry capacity, this was a mistake, not least beacause its to high a number, first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load, so is a lower carry capacity than a US or Uk 1.5 Imperial ton truck that does not include the truck weight, https://www.jstor.org/stable/26004473?seq=8#metadata_info_tab_contents second because its using not trucks as truck numbers, ie a M/cycle and side car or bus, or ambulance is now includded as a 2.5 ton truck equivalent, making the German Army in game the most mechansised army of the war.

Historic German truck numbers by month.
June194k
July 201k
Aug 212k
Sept 218k, 545000 tons daily lift at 2.5 t, in post 6 in game has 420k (420,000*2.5=1050000 tons daily lift.

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Post #: 8
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 9:42:43 AM   
stryc

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 7/30/2012
Status: offline 		Have to agree that I'm finding useful information about Trucks extremely difficult to find. The numbers never seem to line up and you have to visit various screens to be able to semi-mystically divine what's going on. (And the number format varies left and right which is infuriating, i.e., 2,134,234 here but 2134234 there.)

< Message edited by stryc -- 4/21/2021 9:44:08 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 10:34:47 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

Given this is T11, I'm using 45,000 of my 323,000 unit trucks in the supply system. Not exactly a surprise given where some of my units are deployed.


What is a surprise is that around 150 German Divisons each with 300 tons a day truck capacity ( which was the entire truck capacity of a Pzer Div being used unlike at best 2/3 of it, and Inf Divs with far less truck capacity, 180 tons a day with zero trucks lost) has turned into 150 Divisions all using 300 trucks of 2.5 tons capacity.



< Message edited by Hanny -- 4/21/2021 10:55:40 AM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 1:05:56 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,


No idea where you found the above gem but when reading in a language that's not the same as the supposed source, it's always a good idea to make a basic smell check or look for corroboration.

As a truck will roughly weigh what it can load, your supposed system leads to either a carry capacity of zero or capacity numbers that stand out massively with comparable models in other nations.

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Post #: 11
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 1:26:34 PM   
dudefan

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/26/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stryc

Have to agree that I'm finding useful information about Trucks extremely difficult to find. The numbers never seem to line up and you have to visit various screens to be able to semi-mystically divine what's going on. (And the number format varies left and right which is infuriating, i.e., 2,134,234 here but 2134234 there.)


+1

Truck Feedback is in need of an overhaul!

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Post #: 12
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 2:16:11 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,


No idea where you found the above gem but when reading in a language that's not the same as the supposed source, it's always a good idea to make a basic smell check or look for corroboration.

As a truck will roughly weigh what it can load, your supposed system leads to either a carry capacity of zero or capacity numbers that stand out massively with comparable models in other nations.


Try reading the link, the good Prof explains it very clearly and is not advancing a supposed system, and nor was i.


_____________________________

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Post #: 13
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 2:55:26 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,


No idea where you found the above gem but when reading in a language that's not the same as the supposed source, it's always a good idea to make a basic smell check or look for corroboration.

As a truck will roughly weigh what it can load, your supposed system leads to either a carry capacity of zero or capacity numbers that stand out massively with comparable models in other nations.


Try reading the link, the good Prof explains it very clearly and is not advancing a supposed system, and nor was i.



Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 14
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 4:15:58 PM   
Nix77

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stryc

Have to agree that I'm finding useful information about Trucks extremely difficult to find. The numbers never seem to line up and you have to visit various screens to be able to semi-mystically divine what's going on. (And the number format varies left and right which is infuriating, i.e., 2,134,234 here but 2134234 there.)


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5004225

I suggested centralized links for all production-related information, including vehicles/trucks. Logistics Report is a good try, but still the information is too scattered.


< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/21/2021 4:16:23 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 7:04:22 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.


JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not read, or understood.


< Message edited by Hanny -- 4/21/2021 7:22:06 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 7:05:50 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.


JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not tread, or understood.



and the usual reminder - keep it polite in the responses

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Post #: 17
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 7:24:36 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.


JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not tread, or understood.



and the usual reminder - keep it polite in the responses


And again you are not fit for purpose.


_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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Post #: 18
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 7:26:31 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		German weight designation system for military trucks is the load capacity, not total weight. So a 3t truck would be able to load 3t of freight, a 1t truck just 1t of freight. This system is still in use by the Bundeswehr.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 19
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 7:34:22 PM   
Kokubokan

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 7/31/2004
From: Valencia (Spain)
Status: offline 		Recommended books for understand the German logistics in Barbarossa:


Germany and the Second World War. Vol IV The Attack on the Soviet Union. Part II, Chapter VI (Rolf-Dieter Müller) The failure of the economic "Blitzkrieg Strategy".

Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton. Martin Van Creveld. Chapter V Russian Roulette.

Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East. David Stahel. Chapter 3 The impossible equation - the logistics and supply of Barbarossa.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalmajor Alfred Toppe. T-8 Problems of Supply in Far-Reaching Operations.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalleutnant Max Hermann Bork. T-7 Comments on Russian Railroads and Highways.

From Peace to War. Germany, Soviet Russia and the World, 1939-1941. Klaus Schüler. The Eastern Campaign as a Transportation and Supply Problem.

The Most Valuable Asset of the Reich: A History of the German National Railway Volume 2: 1933–1945. Alfred C. Mierzejewski. Chapter 3.B The Attack on the Soviet Union and the Winter Crisis, 1941-1942.



< Message edited by Kokubokan -- 4/21/2021 7:40:01 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: Trucks... - 4/21/2021 7:58:06 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.


JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not read, or understood.



You are earnestly asserting that the very basic and fundamental concepts of empty weight, carry capacity and total weight of a truck were somehow mixed up and then wrongly applied by the German army.

The assertion is both ridiculous and wrong. If you understood and are correctly representing the article, the good professor mixed things up in translation, had a bad day or maybe the deadline was a bit too tight. Either way that gem has been left buried in that journal for good reason.

Not treating every unreviewed, or even reviewed, article as the gospel truth on a particular subject matter is a good practice in general, the more outlandish the claim, the more caution required.

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 21
RE: Trucks... - 4/22/2021 8:38:59 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.


JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not read, or understood.



You are earnestly asserting that the very basic and fundamental concepts of empty weight, carry capacity and total weight of a truck were somehow mixed up and then wrongly applied by the German army.

The assertion is both ridiculous and wrong. If you understood and are correctly representing the article, the good professor mixed things up in translation, had a bad day or maybe the deadline was a bit too tight. Either way that gem has been left buried in that journal for good reason.

Not treating every unreviewed, or even reviewed, article as the gospel truth on a particular subject matter is a good practice in general, the more outlandish the claim, the more caution required.



Having done no such thing, i find im going to ignore you from now on as you have again failed to read the article or understand it or the maths in post 7.

Which in part shows in game by week 11 the Heer is still operating 99% of its start truck inventory, when Major-General Eduard Wagner informs AH 50% of the Heers trucks are out of service, truck and car numbers here https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015017684799&view=1up&seq=314 which by Sept had 218k actual trucks, with a nominal 2.5 freight capacity, and 169k passenger cars with capacity of under a ton for passengers, giving it 713000 tons historically if it decides passengers can walk and instead carry freight, and all are in service, while in game it has a capacity of 1050000 tons and all are in service.


< Message edited by Hanny -- 4/22/2021 9:02:47 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 22
RE: Trucks... - 4/22/2021 10:11:20 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

German weight designation system for military trucks is the load capacity, not total weight. So a 3t truck would be able to load 3t of freight, a 1t truck just 1t of freight. This system is still in use by the Bundeswehr.

True, but by 44 Germany allocated fuel ration for the mission it was for, so Prof Hart is referring to the QM manual for fuel ration required for a loaded truck to x distance over w terrian type, not knowing the truck weight and its load means you cannot work out out its fuel requirement, for instance half freight load if the mission goes of road and on road, hence in 44 the QM reports refer to loaded weight, hence he is referencing the doubling capacity as it includes truck weight, W allies had no such fuel constraint and there QM reports only ever refer to carry capacity.


_____________________________

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Post #: 23
RE: Trucks... - 4/22/2021 12:10:44 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

You are earnestly asserting that the very basic and fundamental concepts of empty weight, carry capacity and total weight of a truck were somehow mixed up and then wrongly applied by the German army.

The assertion is both ridiculous and wrong. If you understood and are correctly representing the article, the good professor mixed things up in translation, had a bad day or maybe the deadline was a bit too tight. Either way that gem has been left buried in that journal for good reason.

Not treating every unreviewed, or even reviewed, article as the gospel truth on a particular subject matter is a good practice in general, the more outlandish the claim, the more caution required.



Having done no such thing, i find im going to ignore you from now on as you have again failed to read the article or understand it or the maths in post 7.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny
first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,


I trust you do have the ability to understand a simple sentence. Your own at that.

There is nothing wrong with making a mistake, but you should really not deny, misdirect and obfuscate once it is brought to your attention.

< Message edited by MechFO -- 4/22/2021 12:11:10 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Trucks... - 4/22/2021 5:19:45 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

German weight designation system for military trucks is the load capacity, not total weight. So a 3t truck would be able to load 3t of freight, a 1t truck just 1t of freight. This system is still in use by the Bundeswehr.

True, but by 44 Germany allocated fuel ration for the mission it was for, so Prof Hart is referring to the QM manual for fuel ration required for a loaded truck to x distance over w terrian type, not knowing the truck weight and its load means you cannot work out out its fuel requirement, for instance half freight load if the mission goes of road and on road, hence in 44 the QM reports refer to loaded weight, hence he is referencing the doubling capacity as it includes truck weight, W allies had no such fuel constraint and there QM reports only ever refer to carry capacity.




This is it, really? Because fuel calculations were made for loaded weight trucks it means the QM section misunderstood and misapplied the term "carry capacity" for trucks? The professor was really having a bad day. Safe to say prior QM manuals worked off loaded weight for fuel calculations as well.

I've never seen fuel calculations for anything except loaded vehicles when planning movements, though I guess going by carry capacity works as well for transport units if the truck fleet is uniform or the planning allocation sufficently rough. Uniform truck fleet is probably the more important influence.

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 25
RE: Trucks... - 4/22/2021 5:23:48 PM   
malyhin1517


Posts: 1426
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

German weight designation system for military trucks is the load capacity, not total weight. So a 3t truck would be able to load 3t of freight, a 1t truck just 1t of freight. This system is still in use by the Bundeswehr.

Russians also use such a system! the main Soviet truck during the war, GAZ-AA, was called a "polutorka" one and a half because it had a carrying capacity of 1.5 tons!

_____________________________

Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 26
RE: Trucks... - 4/22/2021 6:10:33 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kokubokan

Recommended books for understand the German logistics in Barbarossa:


Germany and the Second World War. Vol IV The Attack on the Soviet Union. Part II, Chapter VI (Rolf-Dieter Müller) The failure of the economic "Blitzkrieg Strategy".

Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton. Martin Van Creveld. Chapter V Russian Roulette.

Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East. David Stahel. Chapter 3 The impossible equation - the logistics and supply of Barbarossa.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalmajor Alfred Toppe. T-8 Problems of Supply in Far-Reaching Operations.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalleutnant Max Hermann Bork. T-7 Comments on Russian Railroads and Highways.

From Peace to War. Germany, Soviet Russia and the World, 1939-1941. Klaus Schüler. The Eastern Campaign as a Transportation and Supply Problem.

The Most Valuable Asset of the Reich: A History of the German National Railway Volume 2: 1933–1945. Alfred C. Mierzejewski. Chapter 3.B The Attack on the Soviet Union and the Winter Crisis, 1941-1942.




In the midst of the mud slinging I wanted to say thank you for suggesting these. I've read Stahel and Supplying War: Wallenstein to Patton just landed on my doorstep last night. Will look into the others!

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Post #: 27
RE: Trucks... - 4/22/2021 6:31:47 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kokubokan

Recommended books for understand the German logistics in Barbarossa:


Germany and the Second World War. Vol IV The Attack on the Soviet Union. Part II, Chapter VI (Rolf-Dieter Müller) The failure of the economic "Blitzkrieg Strategy".

Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton. Martin Van Creveld. Chapter V Russian Roulette.

Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East. David Stahel. Chapter 3 The impossible equation - the logistics and supply of Barbarossa.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalmajor Alfred Toppe. T-8 Problems of Supply in Far-Reaching Operations.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalleutnant Max Hermann Bork. T-7 Comments on Russian Railroads and Highways.

From Peace to War. Germany, Soviet Russia and the World, 1939-1941. Klaus Schüler. The Eastern Campaign as a Transportation and Supply Problem.

The Most Valuable Asset of the Reich: A History of the German National Railway Volume 2: 1933–1945. Alfred C. Mierzejewski. Chapter 3.B The Attack on the Soviet Union and the Winter Crisis, 1941-1942.




In the midst of the mud slinging I wanted to say thank you for suggesting these. I've read Stahel and Supplying War: Wallenstein to Patton just landed on my doorstep last night. Will look into the others!


agree, some of that list I really want to follow up

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Post #: 28
RE: Trucks... - 4/23/2021 3:57:56 AM   
jacktimes2


Posts: 153
Joined: 7/11/2015
From: NY
Status: offline 		EDIT: Nevermind.

< Message edited by jacktimes2 -- 4/23/2021 4:09:39 AM >

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 29
RE: Trucks... - 4/23/2021 5:30:37 PM   
Kokubokan

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 7/31/2004
From: Valencia (Spain)
Status: offline 		You´re welcome.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalleutnant Max Hermann Bork. T-7 Comments on Russian Railroads and Highways.

http://dracobooks.com/Comments-on-Russian-Roads-and-Higways-by-Max-Bork.html

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Post #: 30
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