Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Tech Support >> Scenario Data / Map Issues >> Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/26/2021 9:33:29 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		It is on the South side. Was in 1941 and still is today!

https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=54.782778~32.045278&style=h&lvl=12&sp=Point.54.782778_32.045278_Smolensk___
Post #: 1
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 2:10:57 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Seriously! No response. This was the most glaring mistake in WitE and I an't believe it was never fixed.
But to carry this over to WitE 2 is unforgivable.

How much more proof do I need to show you?

(in reply to OberGeneral)
Post #: 2
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 2:40:30 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		because it was on both sides of the river but the main communications and civic buildings are on the north.

Soviet 1939 mapping courtesy of the Uni of Texas: http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nn36-5.jpg

City map - http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nn36-5a.jpg

not big enough to justify a 2 hex layout so there is a need to make a choice






Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to OberGeneral)
Post #: 3
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 3:21:50 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		knew I'd seen a more detailed map as this came up before:




_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 4
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 4:19:12 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe a light urban in the north and a city in the south?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 5
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 4:25:26 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

Maybe a light urban in the north and a city in the south?


can't remember all the discussion but I think that the total 1939 population was too low to justify that sort of density.

Its no difficulty to add a South Smolensk (or whatever) to the map, just most cities on big rivers spread across both sides. The problem is in part hex scale, there isn't enough to the south to justify a significant settlement but clearly what is there influences military operations in the key part of the hex.

_____________________________


(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 6
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 5:00:46 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		@loki100
The 2nd map shows the city center where the park with 7 paths radiating to the center.
Smolensk was captured on July 29th by 29th Motorized and elements of 17th Panzer which had crossed the Dnepr
at Mogilev and turned NE to approach the city. The part north of the Dnepr was just a suburb.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 7
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 7:59:07 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		It should be possible to have a South Smolensk location with both locs being city and manpower evenly split between them. Rail was in north so railyard should stay there.

(in reply to OberGeneral)
Post #: 8
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/27/2021 9:56:05 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 452
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline 		On 1939 Smolensk region had 2686k total population (in 54 local districts and 4 separate cities).
Smolensk (city) - 157k. There was 3 city districts about 50k each, one of them had name Zadneprovskiy (that means "over or behind Dnepr").
Smolensk local district (without city) - 102k

In this region also:
Vyazma (city) - 39k + 48k in local district
Roslavl (city) - 41k + 54k
Yartsevo (city) - 37k + 45k

The population in this region was spread out over various local districts.
For example - on the game map we can see Monastyrschina, Dorogobuzh or Pochinok that has pop 0. It was local district centers of this region.
Monastyrschina local district - 59k
Dorogobuzh local district - 55k
Pochinok local district - 69k


_____________________________


(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 9
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/28/2021 4:01:23 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		This is a 1942 map of Smolensk.

http://puu.sh/HCe4E/003658987f.jpg

It clearly shows the south side as being the largest area.

The major I issue I have is that the in game position of Smolensk forces a ahistorical capture of the city
by 3rd Panzer Group over the "Land Bridge". and I am all about historical to some extent. Except the part
where the Soviet Union wins.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 10
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/28/2021 4:38:53 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Area is not the key factor - it is facilities such as rail and industry that drive the decision. When I looked at this in Dev the argument to move it south wasn't strong enough.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to OberGeneral)
Post #: 11
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/28/2021 5:53:15 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Can you not split Smolensk into North Smolensk (Rail, Armaments Production, Heavey Industry, Supply, and some Population) and Smolensk proper on the South side (Some Production, More population and the VP) similar to Kiev, etc? The rail has always been in the north and would not have to be changed.

This would make it historical in my eyes.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 12
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/28/2021 8:06:50 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		I'm not saying yes - but neither am I saying no.

I'll have a look and the good news is that the tile map makes such a change easy to implement.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to OberGeneral)
Post #: 13
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/28/2021 8:32:28 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Thank you very much for considering this!

In WitE I modded the map myself.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 14
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 4/28/2021 8:48:16 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Here is my Turn 2 progress for AGC.

http://puu.sh/HCiy6/e4eca90731.png

(in reply to OberGeneral)
Post #: 15
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 5/7/2021 5:47:06 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

I'm not saying yes - but neither am I saying no.

I'll have a look and the good news is that the tile map makes such a change easy to implement.


I tried to make the changes myself but without a manual I got lost.
I got Smolensk moved to hex 210,139 and added N Smolensk to 210,138 but the text and town for N Smolensk
did not show on the map. I also could not figure out how to move the BAK3 unit to hex 210,139.

Without a Editor manual it is a lot of guess work.

Can I please get some help with this from an expert map Modder?

< Message edited by OberGeneral -- 5/8/2021 5:05:08 PM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 16
RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr - 6/1/2021 3:38:30 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Thank you!!! Just captured N Smolensk and Smolensk.

@RedLancer
I thought you implemented this in the v 1.0.12_Beta because this change suddenly appeared on my map after I applied the patch. This is not the case apparently.

< Message edited by OberGeneral -- 6/7/2021 1:16:31 PM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 17
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Tech Support >> Scenario Data / Map Issues >> Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.906