Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (Full Version)

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OberGeneral -> Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/26/2021 9:33:29 PM)

It is on the South side. Was in 1941 and still is today!

https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=54.782778~32.045278&style=h&lvl=12&sp=Point.54.782778_32.045278_Smolensk___



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 2:10:57 PM)

Seriously! No response. This was the most glaring mistake in WitE and I an't believe it was never fixed.
But to carry this over to WitE 2 is unforgivable.[:-][:-]

How much more proof do I need to show you?



loki100 -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 2:40:30 PM)

because it was on both sides of the river but the main communications and civic buildings are on the north.

Soviet 1939 mapping courtesy of the Uni of Texas: http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nn36-5.jpg

City map - http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nn36-5a.jpg

not big enough to justify a 2 hex layout so there is a need to make a choice



[image]local://upfiles/43256/67376481D80C44ECB2805FA27EC91CC9.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 3:21:50 PM)

knew I'd seen a more detailed map as this came up before:

[image]local://upfiles/4588/9B64BE4FCC5C40C3986BEC8D78A7E083.jpg[/image]



MechFO -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 4:19:12 PM)

Maybe a light urban in the north and a city in the south?



loki100 -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 4:25:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

Maybe a light urban in the north and a city in the south?


can't remember all the discussion but I think that the total 1939 population was too low to justify that sort of density.

Its no difficulty to add a South Smolensk (or whatever) to the map, just most cities on big rivers spread across both sides. The problem is in part hex scale, there isn't enough to the south to justify a significant settlement but clearly what is there influences military operations in the key part of the hex.



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 5:00:46 PM)

@loki100
The 2nd map shows the city center where the park with 7 paths radiating to the center.
Smolensk was captured on July 29th by 29th Motorized and elements of 17th Panzer which had crossed the Dnepr
at Mogilev and turned NE to approach the city. The part north of the Dnepr was just a suburb.



Denniss -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 7:59:07 PM)

It should be possible to have a South Smolensk location with both locs being city and manpower evenly split between them. Rail was in north so railyard should stay there.



Dreamslayer -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/27/2021 9:56:05 PM)

On 1939 Smolensk region had 2686k total population (in 54 local districts and 4 separate cities).
Smolensk (city) - 157k. There was 3 city districts about 50k each, one of them had name Zadneprovskiy (that means "over or behind Dnepr").
Smolensk local district (without city) - 102k

In this region also:
Vyazma (city) - 39k + 48k in local district
Roslavl (city) - 41k + 54k
Yartsevo (city) - 37k + 45k

The population in this region was spread out over various local districts.
For example - on the game map we can see Monastyrschina, Dorogobuzh or Pochinok that has pop 0. It was local district centers of this region.
Monastyrschina local district - 59k
Dorogobuzh local district - 55k
Pochinok local district - 69k



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/28/2021 4:01:23 PM)

This is a 1942 map of Smolensk.

http://puu.sh/HCe4E/003658987f.jpg

It clearly shows the south side as being the largest area.

The major I issue I have is that the in game position of Smolensk forces a ahistorical capture of the city
by 3rd Panzer Group over the "Land Bridge". and I am all about historical to some extent. Except the part
where the Soviet Union wins.[:D]



RedLancer -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/28/2021 4:38:53 PM)

Area is not the key factor - it is facilities such as rail and industry that drive the decision. When I looked at this in Dev the argument to move it south wasn't strong enough.



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/28/2021 5:53:15 PM)

Can you not split Smolensk into North Smolensk (Rail, Armaments Production, Heavey Industry, Supply, and some Population) and Smolensk proper on the South side (Some Production, More population and the VP) similar to Kiev, etc? The rail has always been in the north and would not have to be changed.

This would make it historical in my eyes.[&o]



RedLancer -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/28/2021 8:06:50 PM)

I'm not saying yes - but neither am I saying no.

I'll have a look and the good news is that the tile map makes such a change easy to implement.



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/28/2021 8:32:28 PM)

Thank you very much for considering this![&o][&o][&o]

In WitE I modded the map myself.[:D][:D]



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (4/28/2021 8:48:16 PM)

Here is my Turn 2 progress for AGC.

http://puu.sh/HCiy6/e4eca90731.png



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (5/7/2021 5:47:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

I'm not saying yes - but neither am I saying no.

I'll have a look and the good news is that the tile map makes such a change easy to implement.


I tried to make the changes myself but without a manual I got lost.
I got Smolensk moved to hex 210,139 and added N Smolensk to 210,138 but the text and town for N Smolensk
did not show on the map. I also could not figure out how to move the BAK3 unit to hex 210,139.

Without a Editor manual it is a lot of guess work.[8|][8|]

Can I please get some help with this from an expert map Modder?



OberGeneral -> RE: Smolensk still on the wrong side of the Dnepr (6/1/2021 3:38:30 PM)

Thank you!!! Just captured N Smolensk and Smolensk.[&o][&o]

@RedLancer
I thought you implemented this in the v 1.0.12_Beta because this change suddenly appeared on my map after I applied the patch. This is not the case apparently.



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