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Beta .11 comments - 5/6/2021 3:26:29 PM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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Been playing a new game using the beta. I am not sure if these comments apply to just the beta or Warplan in general but there seems to be some very odd things occurring in my game.

1. A British land unit in Dover completely blocks any German naval force from entering or leaving the Channel. If land units in Dover can block naval units then England/Ireland all need to to move NE one hex so that naval forces can pass through that area.

2. Air units do not seem to have any impact on blockading/interdicting ports. I have a large air force next to Dover which is completely cut off from the rest of England, yet the 2 units in that area have full supply. It has been like that for 6-8 months.

3. The British seem to have a massive number of land forces. Not including their member nations. The British had major manpower issues in the war which does not seen to be reflected in the game. It is the start of '42 and I have about 32 large/small inf corps not counting my armor/mech. My Land number (it would be SUPER helpful if this number was in number of division equivalents) 1647 while the UK is 529. Since this number is about 1/3 of mine, this means that they have about 11 corps?! Still?

This is not counting their losses which is 672. Comparing this number to the Land number means they have lost about 12 corps. Which means that they have built 23 corps with is about 69 divisions give or take. This is like 2-3 times the number of combat divisions they had in the real war. So where are all these men coming from? Again these numbers do NOT include Canada, etc. These are JUST UK numbers.

Even accounting for the Home Guard, these numbers are way too high for the UK.

4. The Finns are allowed to go anywhere in Russia. While very helpful for the Axis, not very realistic. They should have way more restrictions on them than they do. Especially in attacking Leningrad.

5. The Ai tends to leave important cities open. Suggest that all cities have a fixed garrison that cannot move to help with this.

6. The US declared war in Aug '41. I realize this is a gamey tactic to punish an Axis player that is doing well. I really think that US should not be able to do this until Dec '41 as the isolationist movement was really strong.

7. Since Dover blocked naval movement for Germany, I had to sail the Germany navy all the way around England to get to the ports in France. It just seems really flakey to be able to move the entire German fleet by Scarpa Flow with no impact. Not to mention sailing down between Ireland and England.

8. England is almost over run, so what does the AI do? Invade Holland

In '41! I will admit the area was severely lacking in defenses, but it only took me the next turn to get them shored up. Needless to say this did not go well for the British navy or ground forces. There should be some date restriction/trigger on the AI of invading mainland Europe as this was a total waste of ships and troops.

9. Partisans are a pain. Which is how they should be

However, there should be some divisional unit that could help with this. Currently divisions are useless since they only protect the hex they are in. So you have to build a small corps at least to give enough range to help suppress them.

One option would be to allow divisions in Garrison mode to exert a ZOC. That would be super helpful and more realistic.

Another way would to have a new unit type, Security divisions, which would have a 2 hex ZOC just for Partisans. Maybe a one hex range normally, and a 2 hex range in Garrison mode?

But having to build an entire corps to have a range to suppress them is a little extreme.

10. Due to #3, I found that you have to invade England to have any chance to take Egypt. Otherwise all those extra units the British should not be able to field go to Egypt.

You can take Egypt without having to resort to absurd tactics like invading Palestine/Syria. You park a HQ on the last supply 1 hex. You then take your units and put then next to the HQ in the first 0 supply hex. Then use trucks to build up their strength. This will take a few turns depending on what shape they are in. You should be able once they are built up enough to go and get Alexandria in one turn.

I hope these observations are helpful

Post #: 1

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/6/2021 5:10:59 PM

Numdydar

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11. There is no railroad in Dover's hex and there should be.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 2

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/6/2021 6:50:23 PM

stjeand

Posts: 1508
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From: Aurora, NC
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I think playing human things would be quite different.

But I plan to respond but have not had the time.

All your points occur in the release also...if you were unaware.

1. Access to the English channel is blocked to the Axis from the Dover side...I suspect that changes if Dover is captured but never tried.

2. Not sure on this...I have to relook. Randomly my airforce will hit supply randomly not. I can't remember what needs to happen to get them to affect the port.

3. This has been discussed A LOT but it normally means that the UK did not focus much on their seas lanes. I don't play the Allies enough to be sure, but I don't often see 30 corps for the UK...most are normally divisions. It is possible the AI focused on land and gave up the Battle of the Atlantic.

4. True, not sure this can be easily programmed and the effect is not major overall.

5. Agreed...I have not played the AI is a while but they did leave Odessa and Moscow undefended when the Axis had not reached those locations yet. I agree there should be a garrison in some of the important cities always.

6. Yes...but since no one knows what the US would have done if the UK was invaded this was a game decision.

7. I thought there were mines around those spots but normally there is not much of a German fleet vs a UK fleet...and when they travel there if there is a UK fleet they get sunk fast.

8. Possibly a hail Mary...not sure. There must be a trigger of some sort but I don't know it.

9. I normally just chase them with 2 divisions...partisans only move 2 so not far enough to get away and they die quickly when caught.

10. Well normally they UK has 3 or 4 corps in Egypt so good luck getting through. Alexandria just need a corp in it and it is unlikely you will take it without insane effort but if the UK is being invaded it is morelikely I agree.

11. Never had a rail line in the game. I suspect there is a reason...I don't know it sorry.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 3

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/6/2021 7:23:54 PM

AlvaroSousa

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#1 Allies can move through, Axis can't. That's how it works. If they capture Dover they can move through.

#2 If the UK units are in main supply air has no effect. You also have to set air units to naval to hit supplies. It was a late addition rule.

#3 Uk mobilized ~1,000,000 men very quickly. They peaked at almost 3,000,000 men not including others. If you choose to invest in men then you do. With the new beta they have 89 land strength vs 920 German. This is also accounting for the removal of Indian UK forces. The beta has put back the UK to historical force levels. It was bumped before to prevent exploits early on. The new patch will be the historical lower levels.

#4 That can't be helped and wasn't thought of when designed

#5 If you beat the crap out of the A.I. they will be short units. But there are orders to fill those gaps.

#6 The only way you could do that is if you put dipmacy on. Or the Axis invaded the UK. Diplomacy should be off.

#7 That is why pursuit combat exists.

#8 You need to elaborate here because I dont understand. Who is in England and who is the A.I.?

#9 Partisan units pop up only in some countries. Divs or Corps can garrison vs all sabatuers that blow up rail.

#10 Egypt is a design balance decision

#11 Dover purposely doesn't have a rail system for design and game mechanic reasons.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
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(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 4

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/6/2021 7:54:48 PM

Nirosi

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quote:

Currently divisions are useless since they only protect the hex they are in.

My understanding (and experience) is that all land units stop partisans to spawn in a range of 5 hexes (and saboteurs in a range of 1)

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 5

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/6/2021 9:47:40 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Correct.

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- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

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- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
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- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 6

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/6/2021 10:20:00 PM

Christolos

Posts: 953
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From: Montreal, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

#1 Allies can move through, Axis can't. That's how it works. If they capture Dover they can move through.

#2 If the UK units are in main supply air has no effect. You also have to set air units to naval to hit supplies. It was a late addition rule.

#3 Uk mobilized ~1,000,000 men very quickly. They peaked at almost 3,000,000 men not including others. If you choose to invest in men then you do. With the new beta they have 89 land strength vs 920 German. This is also accounting for the removal of Indian UK forces. The beta has put back the UK to historical force levels. It was bumped before to prevent exploits early on. The new patch will be the historical lower levels.

#4 That can't be helped and wasn't thought of when designed

#5 If you beat the crap out of the A.I. they will be short units. But there are orders to fill those gaps.

#6 The only way you could do that is if you put dipmacy on. Or the Axis invaded the UK. Diplomacy should be off.

#7 That is why pursuit combat exists.

#8 You need to elaborate here because I dont understand. Who is in England and who is the A.I.?

#9 Partisan units pop up only in some countries. Divs or Corps can garrison vs all sabatuers that blow up rail.

#10 Egypt is a design balance decision

#11 Dover purposely doesn't have a rail system for design and game mechanic reasons.

#1 So no channel dashes allowed?
#4 I'm not sure I understand. So Finland can move into Russian territory without being at war with Russia?
#6 So with diplomacy off, what happens with countries that lean one way, like Yugoslavia for example. They would only enter the war if war was declared on them?
#10 So there never really is any point for the Axis to move on Egypt, is there?

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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 7

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 1:12:27 AM

stjeand

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1. Correct
4. No...they can be moved anywhere once at war like to Africa if the Axis wanted.
6. Correct. I have never used diplomacy...heard it ruins things.
10. Well you can capture it...takes a lot A LOT of work and luck.

(in reply to Christolos)

Post #: 8

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 5:36:16 AM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

#1 Allies can move through, Axis can't. That's how it works. If they capture Dover they can move through.

Yes once I captured Dover, I could move through as the Axis both ways with no issues.

quote:

#2 If the UK units are in main supply air has no effect. You also have to set air units to naval to hit supplies. It was a late addition rule.

Did not know that air units had to be set to naval to interdict ports. Good to know

quote:

#3 Uk mobilized ~1,000,000 men very quickly. They peaked at almost 3,000,000 men not including others. If you choose to invest in men then you do. With the new beta they have 89 land strength vs 920 German. This is also accounting for the removal of Indian UK forces. The beta has put back the UK to historical force levels. It was bumped before to prevent exploits early on. The new patch will be the historical lower levels.

I am using the .11 beta so you must be talking about a newer version that we do not have access to as I am not seeing what you describe in the .11 beta.

quote:

#4 That can't be helped and wasn't thought of when designed

Just have to use a house rule then. Recommend this is addressed if there ever is a WP 2

quote:

#5 If you beat the crap out of the A.I. they will be short units. But there are orders to fill those gaps.

I would not say that I was beating the crap out of the AI, but the Ai was doing this occasionally. Maybe have an intrinsic defense value for major cities if no unit is present?

quote:

#6 The only way you could do that is if you put dipmacy on. Or the Axis invaded the UK. Diplomacy should be off.

I did invade England and took London as the Axis. But even that should not bring the US in as the Isolation movement in the US at that time was still pretty strong. I started the game with all default settings. So if diplo was off by default, then that is what I am playing with.

quote:

#7 That is why pursuit combat exists.

But the AI did not have any ships set to that mode as England anywhere near the coast of England. The Home Fleet never left English waters so there should be some kind of permeant naval present around Scarpa Flow. Of course if the Channel movement is blocked to the Axis, then maybe it fine as it is

quote:

#8 You need to elaborate here because I dont understand. Who is in England and who is the A.I.?

The AI was the Allies. So I had most of England controlled at the time the AI invaded the Lowlands in '41.

quote:

#9 Partisan units pop up only in some countries. Divs or Corps can garrison vs all sabatuers that blow up rail.

I did not know that all land units had a 5 hex radius to suppress Partisans. Now I will have to rearrange all my divisions lol

quote:

#10 Egypt is a design balance decision

You did a good job

Once you figure out a good way to do it, then it is doable, but still takes some luck to pull it off.

quote:

#11 Dover purposely doesn't have a rail system for design and game mechanic reasons.

Ah. Because the game would think that there was a land connection between England and France as the rail would connect the two hexes. But there is a tunnel now so maybe there should be a rail hex there

Thanks for the responses as they helped me a lot with understanding how the game works.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 9

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 5:48:13 AM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Christolos

#10 So there never really is any point for the Axis to move on Egypt, is there?

If you use the method I described it can be done pretty easily. You just have to wait and use trucks to get the strength of one armor and one inf unit up. You also need to wait until you can attack Alexandria from two hexes. That is where the luck comes in.

You generally get one attack with both units, and hopefully, after that attack, the armor can finish them off and you can move in.

But again, you likely will need to invade England prior to trying this just to stop a lot of units from clogging up your path to Alexandria.

If you get lucky and have two hexes open you may be able to capture it without an invasion.

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 5/7/2021 5:49:41 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 8:34:04 AM

Lascar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

quote:

Currently divisions are useless since they only protect the hex they are in.

My understanding (and experience) is that all land units stop partisans to spawn in a range of 5 hexes (and saboteurs in a range of 1)

I have seen saboteurs spawn directly in a hex occupied by a land unit, numerous times. Has anyone else seen this? This is version 1.00.10.

(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 11

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 1:42:51 PM

Nirosi

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quote:

I have seen saboteurs spawn directly in a hex occupied by a land unit, numerous times. Has anyone else seen this? This is version 1.00.10.

I don't think I did, but I'll keep an eye open just in case...

(in reply to Lascar)

Post #: 12

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 4:16:04 PM

stjeand

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From: Aurora, NC
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I just had it happen in the USSR under a Romanian unit. I thought I had moved the unit but had not.

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Post #: 13

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 6:12:48 PM

AlvaroSousa

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You guys had me look it up didn't you.

It is working correctly. Saboteurs cant damage rail next to an enemy unit or under them
Partisans can't appear within a 5 hex radius of an enemy unit (partisan unit)

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 14

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/7/2021 6:38:49 PM

Lascar

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Am I misunderstanding what is happening here? Here is an instance of a damaged rail with a panzer corps in the hex. The panzer corps was already in that hex and now a damaged rail graphics appears. I also can't rail through it so it seems to be actually damaged.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lascar -- 5/7/2021 6:41:04 PM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 15

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/8/2021 5:48:26 AM

Harrybanana

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Been playing a new game using the beta. I am not sure if these comments apply to just the beta or Warplan in general but there seems to be some very odd things occurring in my game.

3. The British seem to have a massive number of land forces. Not including their member nations. The British had major manpower issues in the war which does not seen to be reflected in the game. It is the start of '42 and I have about 32 large/small inf corps not counting my armor/mech. My Land number (it would be SUPER helpful if this number was in number of division equivalents) 1647 while the UK is 529. Since this number is about 1/3 of mine, this means that they have about 11 corps?! Still?

The British could not have had as large an army as Germany that is true. But they could have fielded a much larger army than they did. The population of the UK was approximately 48 million while the population of Germany (including Austria) was about 86 million. But the UK also had access to the displaced persons of Europe and fielded units from Poland, Belgium, Free French, etc. If instead of building up a huge air force the British had converted this manpower to the army than they could have had several more corps.

I agree with you that the UK manpower number is too high; but I have no problem with the British fielding an army that is at least 40% the size of Germany's.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/8/2021 3:59:47 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/8/2021 3:00:47 PM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

You guys had me look it up didn't you.

It is working correctly. Saboteurs cant damage rail next to an enemy unit or under them
Partisans can't appear within a 5 hex radius of an enemy unit (partisan unit)

Well the range may be correct, but the game is definitely not working like you said. The game says that the highlighted hex was attacked by Partisans and the hex is within a 5 hex range of not just one unit but two of them. With one being a corps. So something is not working right.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 17

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/8/2021 4:04:52 PM

Nirosi

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quote:

he game says that the highlighted hex was attacked by Partisans and the hex is within a 5 hex range of not just one unit but two of them.

I believe this is a saboteur (destroys rail), not a partisan Unit. The protection range against saboteur is only 1 hex. The 5 hexes range protection is against partisan units only.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 18

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/8/2021 4:14:23 PM

Harrybanana

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

You guys had me look it up didn't you.

It is working correctly. Saboteurs cant damage rail next to an enemy unit or under them
Partisans can't appear within a 5 hex radius of an enemy unit (partisan unit)

Well the range may be correct, but the game is definitely not working like you said. The game says that the highlighted hex was attacked by Partisans and the hex is within a 5 hex range of not just one unit but two of them. With one being a corps. So something is not working right.

There are two types of partisans: partisan units and partisan saboteurs. Only some nations such as Russia, France and maybe some others (but surprisingly not Yugoslavia) get partisan units. These are actual units/divisions that appear on the map within their home country and can move just like any other unit (except they cannot move out of their home country). But they are incredibly weak and out of supply. Partisan units will not spawn within 5 hexes of an enemy unit (including I believe air units).

Partisan saboteurs do not appear on the map and their sole purpose is to destroy rail lines. There is no way to stop saboteurs so you just have to get used to having rail lines blown up. I am pretty sure that at one time saboteurs would not operate (ie destroy rail hexes) in any hex occupied or adjacent to an enemy unit; but if so, apparently this has been changed.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/8/2021 4:16:40 PM >

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 19

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/8/2021 5:07:21 PM

Lascar

Posts: 489
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

You guys had me look it up didn't you.

It is working correctly. Saboteurs cant damage rail next to an enemy unit or under them
Partisans can't appear within a 5 hex radius of an enemy unit (partisan unit)

Well the range may be correct, but the game is definitely not working like you said. The game says that the highlighted hex was attacked by Partisans and the hex is within a 5 hex range of not just one unit but two of them. With one being a corps. So something is not working right.

quote:

There are two types of partisans: partisan units and partisan saboteurs. Only some nations such as Russia, France and maybe some others (but surprisingly not Yugoslavia) get partisan units. These are actual units/divisions that appear on the map within their home country and can move just like any other unit (except they cannot move out of their home country). But they are incredibly weak and out of supply. Partisan units will not spawn within 5 hexes of an enemy unit (including I believe air units).

Partisan saboteurs do not appear on the map and their sole purpose is to destroy rail lines. There is no way to stop saboteurs so you just have to get used to having rail lines blown up. I am pretty sure that at one time saboteurs would not operate (ie destroy rail hexes) in any hex occupied or adjacent to an enemy unit; but if so, apparently this has been changed.

Alvaro commented above that he believes that enemy units prevent the spawning of saboteurs:
"It is working correctly. Saboteurs cant damage rail next to an enemy unit or under them. Partisans can't appear within a 5 hex radius of an enemy unit (partisan unit)"

Alvaro does intend for them prevent the appearance of saboteurs in or next to an enemy unit.

However, as the screen shot I provided shows, they are not preventing the spawning of saboteurs.

< Message edited by Lascar -- 5/8/2021 5:19:47 PM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 20

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/8/2021 7:34:18 PM

Harrybanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lascar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

You guys had me look it up didn't you.

It is working correctly. Saboteurs cant damage rail next to an enemy unit or under them
Partisans can't appear within a 5 hex radius of an enemy unit (partisan unit)

Well the range may be correct, but the game is definitely not working like you said. The game says that the highlighted hex was attacked by Partisans and the hex is within a 5 hex range of not just one unit but two of them. With one being a corps. So something is not working right.

quote:

There are two types of partisans: partisan units and partisan saboteurs. Only some nations such as Russia, France and maybe some others (but surprisingly not Yugoslavia) get partisan units. These are actual units/divisions that appear on the map within their home country and can move just like any other unit (except they cannot move out of their home country). But they are incredibly weak and out of supply. Partisan units will not spawn within 5 hexes of an enemy unit (including I believe air units).

Partisan saboteurs do not appear on the map and their sole purpose is to destroy rail lines. There is no way to stop saboteurs so you just have to get used to having rail lines blown up. I am pretty sure that at one time saboteurs would not operate (ie destroy rail hexes) in any hex occupied or adjacent to an enemy unit; but if so, apparently this has been changed.

Alvaro commented above that he believes that enemy units prevent the spawning of saboteurs:
"It is working correctly. Saboteurs cant damage rail next to an enemy unit or under them. Partisans can't appear within a 5 hex radius of an enemy unit (partisan unit)"

Alvaro does intend for them prevent the appearance of saboteurs in or next to an enemy unit.

However, as the screen shot I provided shows, they are not preventing the spawning of saboteurs.

You are correct, I misread Alvaro. But I think it takes 2 turns for damaged rail lines to be repaired. So if a saboteur destroys a rail line on say the Allies January 1 turn then:

1. On the Axis January 15 turn you will get a notification of the partisan activity. If you click on the notification the map will scroll to the hex with the destroyed rail line and a red circle will appear.

2. On the Axis January 29 turn the rail hex will still be damaged.

3. On the Axis February 12 turn the rail line will be repaired and usable.

So I think what is happening in your screenshot is the rail line was destroyed on the Allies April 9 turn. On your April 23 turn you should have received the notification. On this same April 23 turn you moved your armour into the destroyed rail hex. On your May 7 turn you took the screenshot with the damaged rail line with your panzer in the hex.. If this is not what happened than you should post this as a bug. If it happens again I suggest you take a screenshot of the hex with the red circle and your unit sitting in the hex with full OPs. that would be the smoking gun that this is a bug.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/9/2021 1:40:37 PM >

(in reply to Lascar)

Post #: 21

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/8/2021 8:11:51 PM

AlvaroSousa

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I am looking right at the code. It is correct.

#1 checks ownership of hex
#2 checks if owner is at war with controller
#3 checks if undamaged rail
#4 checks if there is NO land unit in that hex (land, air, or naval)
#5 checks if not next to an enemy unit.

I have checked this now at least 3x this week.

Partisans happen at the end of a turn.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 22

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/9/2021 1:05:30 AM

Christolos

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From: Montreal, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana
Only some nations such as Russia, France and maybe some others (but surprisingly not Yugoslavia) get partisan units.

This surprising since Yugoslavia had a very large and effective partisan force during the war numbering around 650,000 in late 1944 and were organized in four field armies and 52 divisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans

What is the reason behind this in terms of gameplay?

C

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(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 23

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/9/2021 1:39:31 PM

Harrybanana

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Christolos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana
Only some nations such as Russia, France and maybe some others (but surprisingly not Yugoslavia) get partisan units.

This surprising since Yugoslavia had a very large and effective partisan force during the war numbering around 650,000 in late 1944 and were organized in four field armies and 52 divisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans

What is the reason behind this in terms of gameplay?

C

I believe Alvaro's explanation is that the Yugoslav partisans spent more time attacking each other than they did the Germans.

(in reply to Christolos)

Post #: 24

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/9/2021 3:47:36 PM

Lascar

Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Christolos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana
Only some nations such as Russia, France and maybe some others (but surprisingly not Yugoslavia) get partisan units.

This surprising since Yugoslavia had a very large and effective partisan force during the war numbering around 650,000 in late 1944 and were organized in four field armies and 52 divisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans

What is the reason behind this in terms of gameplay?

C

I believe Alvaro's explanation is that the Yugoslav partisans spent more time attacking each other than they did the Germans.

There was inter-partisan conflict among the factions, but by 1944 Tito's faction was dominate and the Germans had up to 25 divisions occupying Yugoslavia. As it stands now in the game the axis can get by with not garrisoning Yugoslavia at all, or at minimum just two divisions to guard the ports against an Allied invasion.

There is no real downside for the Allied player to consider when deciding to invade Yugoslavia. They can knock out Yugoslavia in one turn, and collect production points for years without additional cost.

The partisan war in Yugoslavia was in a category all its own. By late 1944, the total forces of the Partisans numbered 650,000 men and women organized in four field armies and 52 divisions, which engaged in conventional warfare. By the end of the war they numbered 800,000 and had field armies supporting the Soviet advance in Hungary.

Not even the Soviet partisan effort reached this level of numbers and organization. The Germans needed the equivalent of 25 divisions to occupy and somewhat control limited areas of Yugoslavia. WarPlan replicates well the initial ease for the axis to overrun Yugoslavia. But afterwords there is no real cost to occupy it and no major drain on their military resources to hold on to it.

< Message edited by Lascar -- 5/9/2021 3:58:42 PM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 25

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/9/2021 4:30:41 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

If I burden the German playing with having to leave effectively 8 corps in Yugoslavia I would have a revolt on my hands. So I kept it simple.

So things that were considered.

#1 Scorched Earth... I said no because if I did they German player wouldn't be able to invade Greece in a reasonable amount of time
#2 You still should garrison Belgrade and Zagreb to prevent resource damage.

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Creator Kraken Studios
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Designer Strategic Command
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(in reply to Lascar)

Post #: 26

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/9/2021 7:04:05 PM

Lascar

Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

If I burden the German playing with having to leave effectively 8 corps in Yugoslavia I would have a revolt on my hands. So I kept it simple.

So things that were considered.

#1 Scorched Earth... I said no because if I did they German player wouldn't be able to invade Greece in a reasonable amount of time
#2 You still should garrison Belgrade and Zagreb to prevent resource damage.

I can appreciate those concerns. Can there are least be some actual partisan units that appear in Yugoslavia, as they do in the USSR? In most of my games as the axis I have not needed to have even one division in Yugoslavia because there are no partisan units there to threaten the resources.

Only recently have I begun to place divisions in the Yugoslavia ports, because I now have a couple opponents who routinely make an amphibious landing on any unguarded port. Otherwise, the occasional saboteur event damaging a rail hex did not justify having any occupaton units there.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 27

RE: Beta .11 comments - 5/9/2021 8:53:01 PM

Christolos

Posts: 953
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

If I burden the German playing with having to leave effectively 8 corps in Yugoslavia I would have a revolt on my hands. So I kept it simple.

So things that were considered.

#1 Scorched Earth... I said no because if I did they German player wouldn't be able to invade Greece in a reasonable amount of time
#2 You still should garrison Belgrade and Zagreb to prevent resource damage.

What about slowly ramping up Partisan activity in Yugoslavia, with none until 1942 or 1943, and even then maybe only one or two possibilities, but then more in 44 and 45?

C

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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 28