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Make River Dnepr great again [retracted]

 
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Make River Dnepr great again [retracted] - 5/11/2021 11:02:12 AM   
Floxolydian

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		The river Dnepr in Ukraine is 18+ kilometers wide in places, for example east of Tscherkassy and south of Z-town. In-game, one hex represents 10 miles. While the Dnepr is in some places 11 miles wide. Personally, I would rather like to see at least some of these Hexes reevaluated and changed to "sea"-hexes with ferry-crossings.

In my view, this would give any defender more-historically-accurate defensive bonuses.

As you can see in the attached image, the Dnepr river-course has alternate sections of "major river" and ones that can be more practically be described as "lakes".

- disclaimer: The Title of this thread is not meant to have any political submessage, it's just a little apolitical pun -




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< Message edited by Floxolydian -- 5/12/2021 11:15:13 AM >
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RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/11/2021 11:21:24 AM   
Floxolydian

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Comparison between Lake Pskov (same width as Dnepr in mentioned section) reality vs in-game map




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(in reply to Floxolydian)
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RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/11/2021 12:58:18 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		be careful with modern maps, there are a number of post-war dams that significantly affect the section between Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk.

what is shown below is from a 1941 Soviet mapping of the Kiev-Kanev sector (that you have as a vast wide lake)

see



http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nm36-4.jpg

and



http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nm36-7.jpg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Floxolydian

Comparison between Lake Pskov (same width as Dnepr in mentioned section) reality vs in-game map





so is exactly not a valid comparison of the two sectors in the war years

General advice you can't use google maps to understand the human geography of the Soviet Union in 1941

< Message edited by loki100 -- 5/11/2021 12:59:27 PM >

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(in reply to Floxolydian)
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RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/12/2021 7:27:09 AM   
Floxolydian

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Ouch, I yield!

fair enough

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 4
RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/12/2021 1:02:39 PM   
EddyBear81

 

Posts: 153
Joined: 2/10/2012
From: Lille, France
Status: offline 		This is why I love this game.

Simply amazing level of research and dedication. Great work.

(in reply to Floxolydian)
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RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/12/2021 1:23:00 PM   
goranw

 

Posts: 1551
Joined: 10/23/2001
From: Uppsala,Sweden
Status: offline 		Just to say what Loki 100 said above.
Here is from the german intelligence map in front of operation Barbarossa.
Goran W




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RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/12/2021 3:01:34 PM   
Floxolydian

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Perhaps I can somewhat try to redeem my embarassment by translating the use of this very interesting map that Goran W posted here!

It's an assessment of dates between which rivers are frozen (e.g. 23rd December to 22nd of March) and whether "tragfähig" - "able to carry", presumably vehicles.

it also notes some rivers to be "nicht jedes Jahr zugefroren" - "frozen not in every year"

depth and width of rivers is also shown.

Very, very interesting, thanks Goran!

(in reply to goranw)
Post #: 7
RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/12/2021 3:37:33 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Even if the river had been dammed at that time, you can be sure the Russians would have blown up the damn. For instance, look at that lake between Dnepropetrovsk and Zaparozhe on the German map. By the time the Germans got there that lake was no longer there because the Russians blew up the dam just north of Zaparozhe. (This caused a massive loss of life since the NKVD didn't bother warning the downstream population what was coming.)

(in reply to Floxolydian)
Post #: 8
RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/12/2021 5:02:59 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		I can imagine.....are there any known numbers for how many perished in that 'episode'?

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(in reply to CapAndGown)
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RE: Make River Dnepr great again - 5/12/2021 5:28:12 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I can imagine.....are there any known numbers for how many perished in that 'episode'?


This source says "thousands, maybe tens of thousands".

(in reply to Speedysteve)
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