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Israel and Iron Dome system

 
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Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/14/2021 6:55:44 PM   
1nutworld


Posts: 365
Joined: 4/13/2014
Status: offline 		With the (I'd like to say very recent, but more accurately) continuing events in Gaza Strip and Israel, is there a way that CMO has addressed the Iron Dome defense systems?

Just out of curiosity if that is replicated somehow.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/15/2021 12:01:49 AM   
SunlitZelkova

 

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Joined: 3/7/2018
Status: offline 		The Iron Dome is a unit in the game but artillery shells and unguided rockets are not modelled as units, and therefore cannot be intercepted.

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/15/2021 12:56:31 AM   
boogabooga

 

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Status: offline 		I had same question a few posts down.

I think problem could be solved if a few of the short-range Hamas rockets were modeled as "guided weapons", so this could be handled as a database request, perhaps.

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/16/2021 3:17:56 PM   
1nutworld


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quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

I had same question a few posts down.

I think problem could be solved if a few of the short-range Hamas rockets were modeled as "guided weapons", so this could be handled as a database request, perhaps.


Sorry bud, didn't see you had posted the same question.

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/16/2021 8:33:24 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Perhaps we are observing a new and more accurate/precise Iron Dome in real time. The CMO developers could not have anticipated this technology and therefore incorporate it into their commercial product. It seems Iron Dome is very effective and has been upgraded to deal with smaller "projectiles" while it was initially developed to deal with ballistic missiles years ago.

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/16/2021 11:38:38 PM   
boogabooga

 

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Status: offline 		I've understood Iron Dome to have a C-RAM (Counter rocket, artillery, mortar) capability for a long time, as I believe it was used as such in the 2014 conflict as well.


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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/16/2021 11:50:05 PM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure that was one of the initial design requirements. I think the big change has been effectiveness per salvo and coverage area.

edit: Short-range rockets Grad-like rockets and 155mm shells were the original projectiles Iron Dome was designed for. But it looks like around 2010 or 2011, before initial deployment, they expanded it to smaller projectiles.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 5/16/2021 11:55:18 PM >

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/17/2021 1:05:25 AM   
Sharana


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Status: offline 		Iron Dome was build to operate in the very specific circumstances they have over there. And those are overwhelming amount of self made rockets with CEP measured in kilometres launched at them. You can't intercept them all, because the amount is wildly saturating and shooting down each $1K rocket with $70K interceptor is a sure way to go bankrupt rather fast - there were like 2 500 rockets launched towards them in 5 days in the latest escalation alone. And luckily for them they don't have to intercept them all - they just need to spot really fast all rockets, calculate their trajectories, determine which rockets will fall down in populated areas and try to intercept only those dangerous rockets that are small part of each salvo. In 2014 for example they intercepted only 700 or so rockets from almost 3 500 launched at them, but those 700 where close to 90% of all "dangerous" ones - hence the claimed 90% effectiveness of the system.

Even if CMO adds few of the short-range Hamas rockets as guided weapons with stupidly high CEP in the DB that won't solve it, because of the picky nature of target selection in this case. There are no mechanics in CMO that can simulate this threat assessment the system does before picking up only small amount of rockets to try and intercept, otherwise it would get wildly oversaturated really fast if it tried to engage all rockets in it's range. And I really don't see why would it need something so niche in the commercial version of the game to begin with.

But it shows quite good why Israel is doing everything they can to prevent their enemies from getting their hands on more advanced missiles in big amounts. In such scenario Iron Dome will have to intercept almost all missiles as they would no longer have crazy high CEP making most impact in uninhabited areas. And that is not very realistic as you can't have 1 or multiple Iron Domes at each city or village in order to deal with the attempts of saturation attacks.

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/17/2021 1:55:07 AM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

Even if CMO adds few of the short-range Hamas rockets as guided weapons with stupidly high CEP in the DB that won't solve it, because of the picky nature of target selection in this case.


Yeah and since the targets are not military, or anything really - just spay and pray that you get lucky and grab a headline - I'm not sure CMO would need to simulate them. It can make a good backstory but since, in CMO you are mostly concerned with military aspects and equipment, neither the attacking rockets or the defending Iron Dome is game relevant.

Might be missing something here, not sure.

B

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/17/2021 11:53:18 AM   
tylerblakebrandon

 

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Status: offline 		Didn't I see true C-RAM capability on a sheet of planned upgrades sometime back?

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/17/2021 12:03:03 PM   
tylerblakebrandon

 

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Status: offline 		Didn't I see true C-RAM capability on a sheet of planned upgrades sometime back?

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/17/2021 9:06:25 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I would still like to sandbox the tactics since the situation is all over the news. That's what I like about CMO. Is there any rocket that could be a good stand in for the Qassam and be engaged by the Iron Dome? I understand they are hand made bottle rockets but they can kill.

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RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/18/2021 12:38:08 AM   
Fido81

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 7/14/2019
Status: offline 		My understanding is that Hamas and PIJ have been building bigger rockets in recent years, to the point where CMO does model them as guided weapons.

I've had decent success sandboxing the situation with FROG-7 rockets - from the north end of the Gaza Strip, they have the range to reach the majority of the Gush Dan area. Their velocity profile makes them subject to interception by Iron Dome at least during their terminal descent. I've also seen news articles state they have Fajr-5 and M-302 missiles, which are in the database, in their arsenals (though I have not tried them and am not sure whether they've used them or not).

I don't know that there's anything with quite as short range as the Qassam that's represented as a guided weapon in the database.

Also of note is that there have been some ATGM attacks in this round of fighting, and C:MO models those too.

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Post #: 13
RE: Israel and Iron Dome system - 5/18/2021 2:35:23 AM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		OK ... will give the Frog a try. Thanks for the advice. I forgot about those guys. There are a lot of low end rockets facilities in the DB. It comes down to which ones the Dome will engage. Trial and error while the game is on.

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