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Close Assault Resolution Question

 
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Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 9:44:42 AM   
Niwotian60

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/25/2003
Status: offline 		The manual and in-game help don't seem to fully describe the resolution of close assaults. I understand the calculation of the ratio and kill number but after the dice roll the game assigns casualties to both sides based on an apparently undocumented table or calculation. Where do these casualty numbers come from? Are they deterministic or randomly assigned?

< Message edited by Niwotian60 -- 6/22/2021 9:45:00 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 12:50:21 PM   
StayAlive

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/18/2021
From: Lynchburg, Virginia
Status: offline 		A successful assault completely eliminates the defenders, but the assaulting units suffer one Casualty Point per terrain modifier (+2 Woods would yield 2 CPs) and one CP per unpinned unit assaulted (two squads and a leader would yield 3 CPs). In a failed assault the defender suffers one CP per assaulting unit, and the assaulting units suffer one CP per factor that the dice roll failed, plus one CP per terrain modifier, plus one CP per defending unit.

Hope this is correct, and helps!

< Message edited by StayAlive -- 6/22/2021 12:51:02 PM >

(in reply to Niwotian60)
Post #: 2
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 1:32:53 PM   
Gerry4321

 

Posts: 874
Joined: 3/24/2003
Status: offline 		That's a really interesting way of doing it. As in, not just the odds. I thought in some game systems that it was unrealistic when a half-squad could wipe out two squads. It makes sense to take into account the terrain and number of assaulting/defending units.

(in reply to StayAlive)
Post #: 3
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 1:50:25 PM   
StayAlive

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/18/2021
From: Lynchburg, Virginia
Status: offline 		Same here -- I always questioned the "all or nothing" approach of close assaults in a lot of old school games. It never made a lot of sense to me that one or both sides could essentially walk away unscathed.

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 4
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 3:47:07 PM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline 		It certainly is a deadly way to resolve Close Assaults. I have lost many attacking units in 2-1 attacks. It seems in V&V the best way to close assault is by not doing it unless enough units are available for a 3-1, and since it can only be from a single hex stack at a time, must be 3 squads vs 1 squad (after considering pinned units don't count in defenders hex). For better or worse, this should prevent close assaults from being used often (except when far outnumbering the defenders).

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(in reply to StayAlive)
Post #: 5
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 4:41:15 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		I had not delved into the stats and mechanics prior to this thread.

Now I understand why close combat ends immediately, and why I seem to lose even when I win :)

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Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
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Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 6
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 6:15:34 PM   
Niwotian60

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/25/2003
Status: offline 		Thanks, StayAlive. I tried to figure out where the numbers came from, but I think it's fair to say I would have never puzzled this one out. But I do like the system; men less than 20m from each other shooting rifles, pistols, lobbing grenades, satchel charges and anything else they can find absolutely should bloody both sides.

(in reply to Niwotian60)
Post #: 7
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 6:37:10 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, you have to be careful with assaults unless the enemy is pinned or you have a big strength advantage, or you have to take that objective or kill that stack on the last turn to win the game, and then you just go for it.

(in reply to Niwotian60)
Post #: 8
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 7:03:50 PM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline 		In one of Rico's custom scenarios, I was able to get a Brit full squad in woods next to the Tiger Tank and close assault and took it out to my surprise... several other squads either took casualties or were eliminated in the rushing of the tiger (and only after the ATG was pinned). It gave the feeling of the desperation of troops having seen all but 1 of their tank support destroyed. Very satisfying last turn as the Tiger occupied the single victory hex and it felt like snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Great scenario and a good game experience.

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JRR

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Post #: 9
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/22/2021 7:21:58 PM   
DingBat

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Niwotian60

Thanks, StayAlive. I tried to figure out where the numbers came from, but I think it's fair to say I would have never puzzled this one out. But I do like the system; men less than 20m from each other shooting rifles, pistols, lobbing grenades, satchel charges and anything else they can find absolutely should bloody both sides.


The close combat rules are a little complicated. I tried to describe them simply in the manual but there's always room for improvement.

(in reply to Niwotian60)
Post #: 10
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/23/2021 11:16:32 AM   
JonJonJon

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/17/2021
Status: offline 		Is troop quality factored in?

(in reply to DingBat)
Post #: 11
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/23/2021 12:10:56 PM   
joeyeti


Posts: 329
Joined: 2/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JonJonJon

Is troop quality factored in?

No, Troop quality is not present in the game (other than say German and US troops having slightly different numbers on the counters).

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Joe

(in reply to JonJonJon)
Post #: 12
RE: Close Assault Resolution Question - 6/23/2021 1:15:06 PM   
StayAlive

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/18/2021
From: Lynchburg, Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JonJonJon

Is troop quality factored in?


Not in close assaults, at least not in a direct way -- as Joe mentioned above highly trained, veteran, or Elite units typically have better counter stats than regular troops. They typically have higher firepower values and Casualty Ratings, and both help in the assault. Not related to assaults, but pinned Elite infantry units also have a better chance of rallying at the end of their turn.

(in reply to JonJonJon)
Post #: 13
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