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This needs work - 7/19/2021 5:36:56 PM

Steely Glint

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/23/2003
Status: offline

1. There is no real scenario editor.
2. There is no unit editor.
3. There is no map editor.
4. There is no scenario difficulty selector.
5. There is no scenario length selector.

There is a lot of work neeeding to be done to make this an adequate tactical game. The basics seem adequate. The ASL counter mod also increases enjoyment.

< Message edited by Steely Glint -- 7/20/2021 12:23:16 AM >

_____________________________

�It was a war of snap judgments and binary results�shoot or don�t, live or die.�

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

Post #: 1

RE: This needs work - 7/19/2021 11:26:25 PM

Steely Glint

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/23/2003
Status: offline

How to easily make a scenario difficulty selector for V&V:

Very difficult means that all the die rolls are modified by two in the opponent�s favor

Difficult means that all the die rolls are modified by one in the opponent�s favor

Standard means no die rolls are modified

Easy means that all the die rolls are modified by one in the player�s favor

Very easy means that all the die rolls are modified by two in the player�s favor

_____________________________

�It was a war of snap judgments and binary results�shoot or don�t, live or die.�

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 2

RE: This needs work - 7/20/2021 3:53:54 PM

yobowargames

Posts: 331
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline

Thanks for the feedback Steely Glint. Can you explain what you mean by 1?

Lance

_____________________________

YOBOWARGAMES � �BRINGING THE JOYS OF BOARD WARGAMING TO THE PC�

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 3

RE: This needs work - 7/23/2021 4:57:58 PM

Rusty1961

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

1. There is no real scenario editor.
2. There is no unit editor.
3. There is no map editor.
4. There is no scenario difficulty selector.
5. There is no scenario length selector.

There is a lot of work neeeding to be done to make this an adequate tactical game. The basics seem adequate. The ASL counter mod also increases enjoyment.

Most games are rush jobs....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 4

RE: This needs work - 7/24/2021 5:00:31 PM

Monkie

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline

Feeding the trolls perhaps but I don't feel the game has a rushed feeling at all.

1) There is a scenario editor, as a matter of fact it's easy to use and you can quickly make a fun enjoyable scenario in a matter of minutes. I guess by "real" you mean it has to have everything you demand it to have?
2) Where was it said you can make your own units and edit their abilities? Might be nice but remember developers need income as well to improve and add through DLC's etc.
3) Again it might be nice to have but the maps included are quite well done and limited to Normandy at this time. There is talk about map editing in the future.
4) Yes no difficulty selector, that is a great thing about the game, you have to learn to get better, no hand holding. Many of the scenarios are very tough, but you can always load them in the editor and make it as easy for you to win as you would like, nobody is stopping you.
5) Again you can load the scenario into the editor and increase or decrease the length to whatever you desire.

(in reply to Rusty1961)

Post #: 5

RE: This needs work - 7/25/2021 3:54:36 PM

Hoyt Burrass

Posts: 330
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: Montgomery, Alabama
Status: offline

I'm with Monkie...does the game have some rough edges...yes, but the devs are here and supporting it. For what it is and at the price point it's at, I think it's a great buy and has tremendous potential...it also has a nicely functional PBEM system that works!....I find play quick easy and enjoyable.

_____________________________

Roll Tide

(in reply to Monkie)

Post #: 6

RE: This needs work - 7/25/2021 5:00:01 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

The game is OK, but has an early access feel to it. I bought it to support the dev and games like this. But sure am hoping this isn't all there'll be.

(in reply to Hoyt Burrass)

Post #: 7

RE: This needs work - 8/1/2021 4:29:46 AM

Steely Glint

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: yobowargames

Thanks for the feedback Steely Glint. Can you explain what you mean by 1?

Lance

A full scenario editor allows for map creation and editing as well as unit creation and editing. We should be able to both design maps and create random ones.

This game has potential, but it needs the things I listed to reach them. Done fully and done right, this game could be a classic. Done partially, this game could be a memory in a year.

_____________________________

�It was a war of snap judgments and binary results�shoot or don�t, live or die.�

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

(in reply to yobowargames)

Post #: 8

RE: This needs work - 8/1/2021 4:35:34 AM

Steely Glint

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkie

Feeding the trolls perhaps but I don't feel the game has a rushed feeling at all.

1) There is a scenario editor, as a matter of fact it's easy to use and you can quickly make a fun enjoyable scenario in a matter of minutes. I guess by "real" you mean it has to have everything you demand it to have?
2) Where was it said you can make your own units and edit their abilities? Might be nice but remember developers need income as well to improve and add through DLC's etc.
3) Again it might be nice to have but the maps included are quite well done and limited to Normandy at this time. There is talk about map editing in the future.
4) Yes no difficulty selector, that is a great thing about the game, you have to learn to get better, no hand holding. Many of the scenarios are very tough, but you can always load them in the editor and make it as easy for you to win as you would like, nobody is stopping you.
5) Again you can load the scenario into the editor and increase or decrease the length to whatever you desire.

Do you always go around lying (� everything you demand it to have�, etc.) and crapping on other people�s constructive suggestions on how to improve games? I�ve been a wargamer for fifty years now. I know what it takes for games like this to succeed and what makes them fail.

Try not to be such a berk in the future.

_____________________________

�It was a war of snap judgments and binary results�shoot or don�t, live or die.�

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

(in reply to Monkie)

Post #: 9

RE: This needs work - 8/5/2021 6:38:28 AM

Simulacra53

Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline

Would your recommendations help to elevate this game to a classic?
Having a full editor certainly does not hurt and community involvement is a crucial factor in long term success.

Maybe reflect on how you write your constructive criticism.

The original post is negative.
It clearly implies that the game is inadequate unless your recommendations are followed, it needs a lot of work until it is adequate.
The follow up again emphasis on potential, but as is soon to be forgotten.

Of course with your 50 years of gaming experience you are entitled to your opinion, but you did not learn how to win any hearts and minds.

Look on the positive side, you have the attention of the developer.

_____________________________

Simulacra53
Free Julian Assange

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 10

RE: This needs work - 8/5/2021 9:18:12 AM

rico21

Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

1. There is no real scenario editor.
2. There is no unit editor.
3. There is no map editor.
4. There is no scenario difficulty selector.
5. There is no scenario length selector.

Despite all of this, I managed to do the scenarios I wanted, I must be the king of berks.

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 11

RE: This needs work - 8/6/2021 8:55:07 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

While I generally like the game and agree the OP could have used a different tone, his overall message is not completely out in left field. I think the very low numbers on these forums and the average of 6 players over 30 days on Steam probably reflect the general feeling of the potential audience. V&V has a lot of potential, but is a very limited game compared to its direct competitors.

(in reply to rico21)

Post #: 12

RE: This needs work - 8/6/2021 9:41:27 PM

lesharris

Posts: 7
Joined: 3/26/2014
Status: offline

The dearth of scenarios included in the game is pretty baffling. Obviously a tightly focused $19.99 game isn�t going to be TOAW4 but it still feels anemic. That said the system is nice and feels a bit like ASL Light. The developer seems responsive and I hope the sales will justify further development work.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 13

RE: This needs work - 8/16/2021 10:58:17 AM

xxup

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Australia
Status: offline

Doesn't feel rushed to me. I don't really want to read a 400 page manual or have control over the eyebrow colours of the troopies in my games. I like this game and it is at the right level for me.

(in reply to lesharris)

Post #: 14

RE: This needs work - 8/16/2021 2:28:20 PM

FroBodine

Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline

But, the developers really aren't supporting it much at all. They put out one update with zoom added. A mostly useless feature. Where are more scenarios, more units types, more stuff to make this game compete with the other tactical digital game that's out right now?

(in reply to Hoyt Burrass)

Post #: 15

RE: This needs work - 8/16/2021 9:55:51 PM

DingBat

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FroBodine

But, the developers really aren't supporting it much at all. They put out one update with zoom added. A mostly useless feature. Where are more scenarios, more units types, more stuff to make this game compete with the other tactical digital game that's out right now?

Well, in our defense, the game has been out for only a little over 2 months.

Lance is taking a much needed vacation. I've been working on new features and but I'm off on vacation soon as well.

Our intention is certainly to provide players with a great game. There's a lot of things in the pipeline. Lance will likely look at making some of it more visible when he's back.

(in reply to FroBodine)

Post #: 16

RE: This needs work - 8/16/2021 11:22:20 PM

bigus

Posts: 95
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

Would your recommendations help to elevate this game to a classic?
Having a full editor certainly does not hurt and community involvement is a crucial factor in long term success.

Maybe reflect on how you write your constructive criticism.

The original post is negative.
It clearly implies that the game is inadequate unless your recommendations are followed, it needs a lot of work until it is adequate.
The follow up again emphasis on potential, but as is soon to be forgotten.

Of course with your 50 years of gaming experience you are entitled to your opinion, but you did not learn how to win any hearts and minds.

Look on the positive side, you have the attention of the developer.

Well said.
You can't please everyone. I personally think this is a great game for the money spent.
Took me 1 minute to make a scenario.
I agree it needs a bit of work but I have faith right now that improvements are coming.

(in reply to Simulacra53)

Post #: 17

RE: This needs work - 8/16/2021 11:50:20 PM

Big Ivan

Posts: 1963
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DingBat

quote:

ORIGINAL: FroBodine

But, the developers really aren't supporting it much at all. They put out one update with zoom added. A mostly useless feature. Where are more scenarios, more units types, more stuff to make this game compete with the other tactical digital game that's out right now?

Well, in our defense, the game has been out for only a little over 2 months.

Lance is taking a much needed vacation. I've been working on new features and but I'm off on vacation soon as well.

Our intention is certainly to provide players with a great game. There's a lot of things in the pipeline. Lance will likely look at making some of it more visible when he's back.

++1 Gentlemen! V & V has the potential!!

Thanks for all you developers do!!

_____________________________

Blitz call sign Big Ivan.

(in reply to bigus)

Post #: 18

RE: This needs work - 8/17/2021 3:25:22 PM

rico21

Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big Ivan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DingBat

quote:

ORIGINAL: FroBodine

But, the developers really aren't supporting it much at all. They put out one update with zoom added. A mostly useless feature. Where are more scenarios, more units types, more stuff to make this game compete with the other tactical digital game that's out right now?

Well, in our defense, the game has been out for only a little over 2 months.

Lance is taking a much needed vacation. I've been working on new features and but I'm off on vacation soon as well.

Our intention is certainly to provide players with a great game. There's a lot of things in the pipeline. Lance will likely look at making some of it more visible when he's back.

++1 Gentlemen! V & V has the potential!!

Thanks for all you developers do!!

John, do a scenario please!!!

(in reply to Big Ivan)

Post #: 19

RE: This needs work - 8/17/2021 4:26:42 PM

Big Ivan

Posts: 1963
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Status: offline

I'd love to rico but I'm busy at the moment with another behind the scenes project. Maybe in the future when things quiet down a bit.

But good news I do have the makings of a scenario for V&V. British and Germans with tanks and anti-tank guns. Guns a go-go baby!

Regards rico,
John

_____________________________

Blitz call sign Big Ivan.

(in reply to rico21)

Post #: 20

RE: This needs work - 8/21/2021 11:48:26 AM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline

if you really want to know what's going off, then read what the developers is saying, not guessing in his own words

https://digitalwargamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/digitalwargamer_3.pdf

and then wait for the follow on

< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/21/2021 11:49:53 AM >

(in reply to Big Ivan)

Post #: 21

RE: This needs work - 8/25/2021 5:45:23 AM

AP514

Posts: 176
Joined: 11/26/2001
From: Houston,TX ,USA
Status: offline

I really want to purchase this one but Matrix record of late with devs is really Bad.....

Matrix must have a 1 patch min in the contract because most of the Devs lately are 1 and done on the patching of these games....

Then they disappear like a fart in the wind... leaving us with half baked buggy games..
sad but true

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 22

RE: This needs work - 8/25/2021 9:10:41 AM

Magpius

Posts: 1632
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

Not my experience, can you give any recent examples?

(in reply to AP514)

Post #: 23

RE: This needs work - 8/26/2021 7:52:19 PM

DingBat

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AP514

I really want to purchase this one but Matrix record of late with devs is really Bad.....

Matrix must have a 1 patch min in the contract because most of the Devs lately are 1 and done on the patching of these games....

Then they disappear like a fart in the wind... leaving us with half baked buggy games..
sad but true

Setting aside the idea that V&V is "half baked" or "buggy", I can assure you Lance and I aren't going anywhere. Now that Lance has returned from vacation, I believe he's working with Slitherine to make plans to talk about some of the things we've been working on.

(in reply to AP514)

Post #: 24

RE: This needs work - 9/6/2021 6:20:07 AM

AP514

Posts: 176
Joined: 11/26/2001
From: Houston,TX ,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Magpius

Not my experience, can you give any recent examples?

Lock-N-Load, Check Your 6, Carrier Deck......Just a few !!

(in reply to Magpius)

Post #: 25

RE: This needs work - 9/7/2021 10:48:34 PM

Steely Glint

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/23/2003
Status: offline

I am not interested in winning hearts and minds. I�m only interested in winning battles, in real life and in gaming. In this case the battle is to make this game into what it ought to be instead of what it is now. With a full set of features that I identified this game would be the Holy Grail of World War II tactical gaming. Without them, it will be just another game. The developers get to make the choice of what they want the game to be: classic or forgotten. I hope they choose wisely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

Would your recommendations help to elevate this game to a classic?
Having a full editor certainly does not hurt and community involvement is a crucial factor in long term success.

Maybe reflect on how you write your constructive criticism.

The original post is negative.
It clearly implies that the game is inadequate unless your recommendations are followed, it needs a lot of work until it is adequate.
The follow up again emphasis on potential, but as is soon to be forgotten.

Of course with your 50 years of gaming experience you are entitled to your opinion, but you did not learn how to win any hearts and minds.

Look on the positive side, you have the attention of the developer.

_____________________________

�It was a war of snap judgments and binary results�shoot or don�t, live or die.�

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

(in reply to Simulacra53)

Post #: 26

RE: This needs work - 9/8/2021 11:07:59 AM

Magpius

Posts: 1632
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AP514

quote:

ORIGINAL: Magpius

Not my experience, can you give any recent examples?

Lock-N-Load, Check Your 6, Carrier Deck......Just a few !!

STRUTH!
That is indeed a run of outs.

(in reply to AP514)

Post #: 27

RE: This needs work - 9/8/2021 4:40:31 PM

rico21

Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline

Check your six

, amazing

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 28

RE: This needs work - 9/8/2021 10:27:14 PM

BradK82

Posts: 56
Joined: 9/26/2015
Status: offline

Well with "positive" threads like this "encouraging" potential new customers I don't see the developers getting the support they need to make improvements. Probably should look elsewhere.

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 29

RE: This needs work - 9/9/2021 5:05:48 PM

z1812

Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline

@ Steely Glint

It is obvious by your attitude that you are not interested in winning "hearts and minds". I imagine Steely Glint is the only one who knows what a good wargame should be..............why not show everyone just how smart you are by designing and coding your own game.

< Message edited by z1812 -- 9/9/2021 5:12:44 PM >

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 30