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Stopping a steamroller - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J)

 
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Stopping a steamroller - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 12:52:32 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline 		Hello everyone , we are starting a Scenario 2 game with Andy Macs Variants and Options. (Can be found here; https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4906600 )

We decided to go for a different enough experience from Scenario 2 so we are going with 200 points.
Extra Options agreed on with opponent;
Add 500k Supply,Fuel,Resource,Oil - 5 points
Adding land device upgrade to another device for 3 points
Change a ships location to a friendly port for 1 points
Change a task force location to a friendly port for 5 points
Change an unrestricted lcu location to a friendly base for;
Regiment,AA,Artillery,Engineer - 1 point ,
Division - 3 points ,

Integrating points system to the post so its easier to remember




Realism Options;
Traded realistic R&D = off for No Unit Withdrawals = On , rest is standart


House Rules;
1)Japan gets 1 full surprise attack , if Japan elects to attack Pearl harbor , no attacks on Manila on turn 1. Allied player cant create new task forces at Pearl and Manila , no orders to planes at Pearl turn 1
2)No super deep invasions turn 1
3)All missions altitude limit 20k untill 6/42 , 25k between 6/42 and 1/43 , 30k between 1/43-1/44 , no limit after 1944
4)Paratroopers; Free to use fragments to capture small island bases but have to bring the whole unit if you are using it elsewhere , either in 1 turn or in the following turns.
5)4 Ships task forces minimum if you have multiple task forces in a hex
6)No 4E planes below 10k feet on naval strike
7)No Carrier hunting turn 1

If you have any suggestions for spending these points or have ideas for more options , let me know :)

< Message edited by Evoken -- 8/31/2021 5:08:33 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 1:05:53 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		I think one of the best for allies is A2 P-47D25. You get an extra 525 P-47D25.

N8 is also a good one, the Allies are short on PPs for much of the first 2 - 2.5 years.

E1 add B-25C(USA), size 15. That factory will upgrade to B-25D1 and then to B-25J11. So from 8/42 to the end of the war you get 15 more B-25s each month. That is a lot of medium/attack bombers.

L4, Indian invasion reinforcement.

Since you are using 150 points, another idea is to add another E1 size 30 USN F4F-4 factory.
The USN/USMC are very short of fighters through out 1942.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 8/22/2021 1:26:31 AM >

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 1:30:45 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline 		Great suggestions , i will use these for sure

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 3
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 1:49:09 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Might want to get an American Armor Division from permanent to temporary restricted, the Pershing tank 6 months earlier, and get 25 more per month. Might be needed to invade Japan's home islands.

(in reply to Evoken)
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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 1:50:57 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		On another note, if you would like I can be a third party to make the modifications. That way neither of you will know what the other
player chose. That would make the game even more interesting.

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 2:22:28 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Might want to get an American Armor Division from permanent to temporary restricted, the Pershing tank 6 months earlier, and get 25 more per month. Might be needed to invade Japan's home islands.

Another great idea!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

On another note, if you would like I can be a third party to make the modifications. That way neither of you will know what the other
player chose. That would make the game even more interesting.


Opponent agreed , thank you for offering your time sir , should make it more interesting as you said

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 6
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 2:23:50 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		And another note, I would think that you guys would want to pla with No unit Withdrawals OFF, not ON, and realistic R&D set to ON.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 8/22/2021 2:25:35 AM >

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 2:43:22 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		When you are both ready send your lists of changes to me at nomad(dot)pbem(dot)witp(at)gmail(dot)com

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 11:12:07 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

And another note, I would think that you guys would want to pla with No unit Withdrawals OFF, not ON, and realistic R&D set to ON.

That one is intentional , opponent wanted realistic R&D off so i got no unit withdrawals on. Gives us ability to spend points on other stuff

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 9
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 1:48:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Just dont do what I did and go RN carrier heavy and not increase torpedo bombers my opponent pissed himself when I realised I had lots of carriers and no aircraft to put on them.....

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 10
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 2:02:02 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		New Zealand Tank bde is a good unit to make unrestricted

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 11
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 3:32:37 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Since they are playing with no unit withdrawals ON, he will have all the British CVs, but he does need to include a British TB factory.

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 3:45:54 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		No, he does not need a British TB factory. He can husband what is there and/or use US Marine air units on them. Think of the fighters available to go with the dive bomber units along with at least one unit which coverts to Avengers. Enlarge that Avenger unit if needed and if it can be broken into thirds . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 13
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 4:03:57 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Edit some of the ships names to the opponents names if known, also family members. After all, how many players would want to sink the CV Yo'Mama?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 14
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 4:40:50 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Here is a post on how to try and get more supplies to China early, if you are interested in doing so . . .

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5062813

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 8/22/2021 4:41:55 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 15
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 5:43:05 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline 		Here are the changes i am currently going with;




(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 16
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 6:16:57 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Wow 200 points give you a lot to play with

On the 10 Divisions are you rolling a random number generator for arrival 1 being 5/42 with 12 being 5/43 or have you agreed something between you and opponent ?

And same question for the Midways in 44 - that is a truly extreme use of the variants will be interesting to see how it plays out

Personally N7 was supposed to be within nationality so the RN DD's to Gearing should probably be RN DD's to Tribal and Dutch cannot be changed or they could but only to another Dutch design which is pointless !!! - but I didnt spell it out in rules so its fair enough I guess

I have never had more than 100 points so its truly eye opening to see what can be done with 200 ;)

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 8/22/2021 6:32:37 PM >

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 17
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 6:19:03 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Also the supply limit for Chungking even with your lvl 10 AF is 200k - its 20k x AF+ port level max so you will need to spread the rest around other bases

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 18
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 6:42:27 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Hi Andy Mac, I am doing the changes for both. This is a lot of work. I am using a Random Die Roller from the internet, seems to work fine.

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 6:43:38 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Evoken, just so you know I changed to name of the additional Indian Inf Div from 11th to 111th. There is already an 11th Indian Inf div.

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 6:49:20 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I am amazed what can be achieved with 200 points ;)

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 21
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 7:00:01 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		ah the supply isnt from my list its one of your bespoke changes so ignore what I said about limits (although thats going to make this game land war in China !!!)

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Post #: 22
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 7:21:38 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ah the supply isnt from my list its one of your bespoke changes so ignore what I said about limits (although thats going to make this game land war in China !!!)


I thought 500k supply or fuel was a bit too cheap for 3 points so increased it to 5 and to make it easier for the modder got rid of the base limit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Evoken, just so you know I changed to name of the additional Indian Inf Div from 11th to 111th. There is already an 11th Indian Inf div.

Sounds good , thanks again!

quote:

Personally N7 was supposed to be within nationality so the RN DD's to Gearing should probably be RN DD's to Tribal and Dutch cannot be changed or they could but only to another Dutch design which is pointless !!! - but I didnt spell it out in rules so its fair enough I guess

I have never had more than 100 points so its truly eye opening to see what can be done with 200 ;)

I thought about it , made sense for me to change some DD's to USN since Gearings saw service in multiple nations navies. Followed that rule with the capital ships though
Yeah 200 points is crazy , i am looking forward to what deaniks comes up with , i would guess a very strong Carrier force for 43-44 and i expect a lot of Akizuki class DD's

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 23
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 8:32:21 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		I agree Andy, it is going to be interesting. 175/200 points is a lot of additions, but I hope it turns out to be a fun matchup.

I have finished Evokens options, I am waiting for a clean list from deaniks, he had some issues with understanding everything. I think we have worked them out, now I need a clean list.

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RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/22/2021 8:34:38 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline 		A bit of regret pouring in as i forgot to convert British CV's to larger variants. I dont know what to take out to replace those either

< Message edited by Evoken -- 8/22/2021 8:35:02 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/23/2021 10:08:50 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Is there an option for the USN to decrease their torpedo dud rate at start and/or have the percentage go down 3 to 6 months earlier? I know in Big B's mod he has the rate changing steadily in '42. A Japanese player should be able to get more Type 2 depth charges on various ships and/or increase their accuracy rate.

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 26
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/23/2021 10:44:13 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I am taking carefull note of choices on both sides and will issue a new set of variants with costs after this game starts - dont want to do it in advance because these guys are picking on the current rule set not on how I will amend it

But they both have interesting ideas and I wil add one on reducing dud rate

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 27
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/23/2021 11:00:06 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Is there an option for the USN to decrease their torpedo dud rate at start and/or have the percentage go down 3 to 6 months earlier? I know in Big B's mod he has the rate changing steadily in '42. A Japanese player should be able to get more Type 2 depth charges on various ships and/or increase their accuracy rate.

That would have been a good custom option to add , like 2 or 3 points per %10 dud rate reduced.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 28
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/23/2021 11:13:31 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I am taking carefull note of choices on both sides and will issue a new set of variants with costs after this game starts - dont want to do it in advance because these guys are picking on the current rule set not on how I will amend it

But they both have interesting ideas and I wil add one on reducing dud rate

My feedback on this system so far sir; Capital ships compared to smaller classes are too cheap , Adding in new divisions is too cheap compared to making a division temp restricted (you can add 3 new unrestricted divisions for the cost of making 1 division temp restricted) , i would recommend changing add supply/fuel to 100k increments with 2 points for cost.

Rest seems mostly fine , it could use some more specific rules and some extra options

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Post #: 29
RE: Something Different - Evoken(A) vs Deaniks(J) - 8/23/2021 11:15:18 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Yeah I am making amends in those areas

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 30
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