Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Unless the Beta patch (which I have not installed) changed things, yes - you can order squadrons/groups which you have transferred long distances to perform missions including attacks. That is why I have always played with a personal house rule of standing down any air group whose base transfer would take longer than 4 hours at cruise speed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Unless the Beta patch (which I have not installed) changed things, yes - you can order squadrons/groups which you have transferred long distances to perform missions including attacks. That is why I have always played with a personal house rule of standing down any air group whose base transfer would take longer than 4 hours at cruise speed.

If they flew some sort of mission that increased fatigue and transferred the same day their fatigue could be serious and there could be consequences. If not then the xfr was simply their mission for the day. I wouldn't continue with that "house rule", it is unnecessary. In any case in reality the planes were actually often flown by maintenance crews to the new location and the pilots got some extra sleep. The game doesn't depict them having transports but of course they did have them, otherwise the staff would have to take a train or swim to the new location.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved.

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved.

Alfred

Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor.

quote:

Can't find anything about this?

quote:

A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are
free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding
resolution phase.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Can't find anything about this?

Seek and you shall find...

Manual, s 7.2, Air Sequence of Play, p156.

quote:

A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are
free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding
resolution phase.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved.

Alfred

Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Can't find anything about this?

Seek and you shall find...

Manual, s 7.2, Air Sequence of Play, p156.

quote:

A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are
free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding
resolution phase.

That seems to be wrong as per below and my tests...

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved.

Alfred

Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Can't find anything about this?

Seek and you shall find...

Manual, s 7.2, Air Sequence of Play, p156.

quote:

A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are
free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding
resolution phase.

That seems to be wrong as per below and my tests...

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved.

Alfred

Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor.

The manual is 100% correct - they will be free to fly a mission.

They can fly that mission, which they are free to fly, if they did not take all day do to get to their new base, did not get too fatigued, the new base has the facilities/support to handle them, the target is not too far away, and the weather is favourable. Of course, all that could be aligned, but a bomber unit might still decline a mission without escort into a heavy CAP area. And the leader of the unit might have an effect on whether it flies as ordered. The foregoing is probably not an exhaustive list.

Extreme Example 1 - You transfer a fighter unit from Port Moresby to Buna, and tell it to provide escort, 40% CAP, 20% rest. It will very likely fly the CAP, it might get a few machines to escort some bombers to Lae (depending on altitude settings, command chains, HQ co-ordination, etc.

Extreme Example 2 - you transfer a B29 group from Peal Harbor to Saipan, and tell it to fly an extended range mission on city attack to Tokyo, into the teeth of heavy CAP, without an escort, through a typhoon. That unit actually flying that mission is about as likely as a snowstorm at Xmas.

Got it now?

Edit: The fighters from PM would probably have put some CAP over Buna anyway, depending on the %/range settings.

quote:

Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved.

Alfred

quote:

They can fly that mission, which they are free to fly, if they did not take all day do to get to their new base, did not get too fatigued, the new base has the facilities/support to handle them, the target is not too far away, and the weather is favourable. Of course, all that could be aligned, but a bomber unit might still decline a mission without escort into a heavy CAP area. And the leader of the unit might have an effect on whether it flies as ordered. The foregoing is probably not an exhaustive list.

quote:

I call it a "personal" house rule - I have never asked an opponent to use it but it keeps me from asking too much of my pilots and aircraft. So, thank you, but I will keep using that rule.

quote:

flying that mission is about as likely as a snowstorm at Xmas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"No need, in this case the game seems to handle this very well.

Remember just because the manual says they can, doesn't mean they will. I've used it, sometimes they'll fly, sometimes they won't. I can't tell you why or how it happens, its mostly 'under the hood'. Of course, as said above, I have some guidelines as why and how."

The need is to remind me not to demand too much from my air units. There are times that you "just want" to get those newly transferred aircraft into the air due to perceived need but by following this rule I make sure that I do not set them up for failure. The idea behind it is to keep my desires in check.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"No need, in this case the game seems to handle this very well.

Remember just because the manual says they can, doesn't mean they will. I've used it, sometimes they'll fly, sometimes they won't. I can't tell you why or how it happens, its mostly 'under the hood'. Of course, as said above, I have some guidelines as why and how."

The need is to remind me not to demand too much from my air units. There are times that you "just want" to get those newly transferred aircraft into the air due to perceived need but by following this rule I make sure that I do not set them up for failure. The idea behind it is to keep my desires in check.

Give them a significant rest percentage, e.g. 40 or 50% for the heavies and the transport aircraft, and don't fly down in the grass. Ops losses drop to minimal levels.