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To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question

 
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To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/27/2021 1:05:52 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		Does that Brest-Litovsk decision require Lenin over there?

No Brest-Litovsk then you have to conquer the capital or force national morale down to 0, right?

If national morale goes to 0, then territorially it's the same as Brest-Litovsk (minus the 300mpp), right?

Do the other Entente power lose morale from Russia loss with Brest-Litovsk or national morale to 0 or it only happen to surrendering from losing the two capitals?
Post #: 1
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/29/2021 7:13:29 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Yes, Lenin will have to be sent to Russia in order for there to be a revolution and the possibility of signing peace with a new government.

Saying yes to Brest-Litovsk is a way of ending the war in the east earlier, so whether it's the best thing to do depends on the overall situation.

Maybe try it both ways and then you'll be able to see which will be the best in future games?

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(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 2
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/29/2021 7:47:30 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		arg! But I need the info for an my ongoing AAR. :D

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 3
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/29/2021 9:23:11 PM   
Bavre


Posts: 299
Joined: 12/5/2020
Status: offline 		Imho saying no to the comrade only makes sense if you intend to conquer all of Russia (difficult but CRAZY rewards). If you are pressed hard however, my advice would be to go Lenin -> Brest-Litowsk. It is basically the save bet.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 4
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/29/2021 9:36:12 PM   
mdsmall

 

Posts: 461
Joined: 4/28/2020
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		Britain and France take the same NM hit if Russia withdraws from the war (by accepting Brest-Litovsk) or it surrenders (if Brest-Litovsk never triggers, or Germany refuses it). But the three Central Powers all get a NM bonus if Russia surrenders. See the National Morale crib-sheet I posted in this Forum in July.

You should also read the thread I started on 3/28/2021 in this Forum on "Refusing Brest-Litovsk", in particular my last post where I reported on what happened when I succeeded as Germany in pushing Russia to a military surrender by capturing its capitals. While the MPP pay-off is incredible for Germany if they can pull that off, the strategic price they pay by committing the troops to do so is way too risky in my view unless the Western allies are on their last legs. And if Russia surrenders due to its NM hitting zero before the CP can capture both Russian capitals, then Germany gets no plunder as a reward.

The only reason can see not to send Lenin is to avoid Bolshevik agitation from spreading to Germany and Austria-Hungary after Russia surrenders. But then Russia will fight on until it is defeated; whereas if Lenin is sent, they will offer a peace treaty once their NM hits 12,000. That makes a big difference to the CP's ability to reallocate experienced troops to other fronts.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 5
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/29/2021 10:03:18 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		thanks! That helps... But what territorial changes happens when Russian surrenders from low NM?

(in reply to mdsmall)
Post #: 6
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/30/2021 1:04:08 AM   
mdsmall

 

Posts: 461
Joined: 4/28/2020
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		The Baltic Republics, Ukraine, Crimea and Transcaucasia all break away from Russia if Germany signs the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk and Russia withdraws from the war, OR if Russia surrenders due to its morale dropping below 1%. If Russia surrenders before that happens because all its capitals have been captured, then Germany occupies all of Russia and gains all of its resources. The exception is Finland which will secede once Russian morale drops below 25%.

< Message edited by mdsmall -- 8/30/2021 11:42:15 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 7
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/30/2021 1:11:19 AM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		I see. In the Call to Arm guide it mentions if you say no to Lenin "In the event that Russia’s National Morale falls below 1% then she will surrender and many new countries will form as the Tsar’s Empire collapses." But I guess its not the case in this iteration of the game. I seem to remember that's what happened in the original WW1 game. Maybe they reused the same text.

(in reply to mdsmall)
Post #: 8
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/30/2021 10:42:13 PM   
AshFall

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 4/16/2019
Status: offline 		Dont take this as gospel, but from memory I collapsed the Russians without lenin while waiting out their national morale to 0% in a recent AAR.

That did still split the Russian empire, allowing me to annex Poland and set up the grain deal with Crimea.

As far as I understand the thing with Lenin is basically this:

Lenin: Much faster collapse of the Russians, agitation is more effective, the threshold for triggering Brest-Litovsk higher. If you go Lenin but not Brest, I'm not sure but should still hit Russian NM harder with agitation until they fold. The NM hits on Austria and Germany from socialism spreading are fairly nasty in the old game, not sure here.

No Lenin: A fair bit slower collapse whichever way you go.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 9
RE: To Lenin or not to Lenin, that is the question - 8/30/2021 11:49:33 PM   
mdsmall

 

Posts: 461
Joined: 4/28/2020
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		I stand corrected: I rechecked the Editor and yes, Russia breaks up and the new republics are formed if Russia surrenders due its morale dropping below 1%. I have revised my post above to reflect this. This makes it an even more interesting gamble for the CP to try to capture Petrograd and Moscow before Russian morale drops below 1%. If they can, then the CP will forestall the creation of the new republics and will control all of Russia, rather than just securing Poland for Germany and a grain deal with the Ukraine.

(in reply to AshFall)
Post #: 10
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