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Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 8:30:06 PM   
Tanaka


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Status: offline 		If you are one hex from a base by rail which is faster? March or Rail? As it takes 2 days to pack and unpack I am assuming marching is faster? How do you measure distance to determine which is better in these type situations?

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 8:33:56 PM   
btd64


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Status: offline 		If the unit trucks, etc, road movement is faster....GP

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 9:06:32 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

If the unit trucks, etc, road movement is faster....GP


Trucks? You mean armored and recon units?

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 9:10:48 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Any kind of vehicles that can carry troops. But now that I think about it, for road movement you have to be in Strategic mode....GP

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 9:14:09 PM   
Nomad


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Status: offline 		It depends on the terrain. Is there a road? I assume there is rail.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 9:21:09 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		see 8.3 in the Manual.

Short version: Depends on the terrain type.
If a major road is connecting the two hexes, then normal movement will be faster.
If there are no roads and both hexes are jungle hexes, then strategic movement will be faster.

The above mentioned section in the manual covers every possible situation you can encounter.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 9:48:53 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

Any kind of vehicles that can carry troops. But now that I think about it, for road movement you have to be in Strategic mode....GP


Really?? I had no idea I thought Strat move was ONLY Railroad between bases? Wow how have I missed this. I assume this also applies to units with motorized support? Is there a good thread on all of this anywhere? I've searched and all I can find is how to move supply not units...

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/31/2021 9:52:33 PM >

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 8/31/2021 10:41:16 PM   
Kull


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Status: offline 		Strategic Road Movement

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Post #: 8
RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 2:47:36 AM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Strategic Road Movement


Kazaa thanks! So only allied units are strat road capable from this thread?

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 3:06:05 AM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Strategic Road Movement


Kazaa thanks! So only allied units are strat road capable from this thread?


And not all of them

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Post #: 10
RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 3:15:14 AM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

see 8.3 in the Manual.

Short version: Depends on the terrain type.
If a major road is connecting the two hexes, then normal movement will be faster.
If there are no roads and both hexes are jungle hexes, then strategic movement will be faster.

The above mentioned section in the manual covers every possible situation you can encounter.


Thanks yeah found it and you are correct! I still don't see anything about Strategic moves on roads only rail?

Past one hex at what point is rail better than road? 2 hexes?

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 9/1/2021 3:30:49 AM >

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 7:56:40 AM   
Maallon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

see 8.3 in the Manual.

Short version: Depends on the terrain type.
If a major road is connecting the two hexes, then normal movement will be faster.
If there are no roads and both hexes are jungle hexes, then strategic movement will be faster.

The above mentioned section in the manual covers every possible situation you can encounter.


Thanks yeah found it and you are correct! I still don't see anything about Strategic moves on roads only rail?

Past one hex at what point is rail better than road? 2 hexes?

I don't see anything regarding strategic movement on roads in the manual either, so I think this feature was added after the manual was released and thus the manual doesn't cover it.

For major roads,three hexes, with normal movement mode, after that strategic movement via rail will be faster.
You can calculate stuff like this yourself though:
2 days packing + 1 day traveling + 2 days unpacking = 5 days to travel via rail
(keep in mind that packing times can vary between 1-3 days, mostly depending on unit size)
A infantry division will move at a rate of 30 miles per day on a major road and one hex is 46 miles big.
30 miles x 5 days = 150 miles
150 miles / 46 miles = 3,26 hexes -> The infantry division will be in the third hex on its route with a progress of 12 miles to the fourth.

If you look at the movement table in the manual while keeping the 5 days and the size of a hex with 46 miles in mind you will see that only major and minor roads have large enough movement rates to take you to an adjacent hex faster than 5 days and a clear hex would take you exactly 5 days.




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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 8:31:10 AM   
Alfred

 

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Status: offline 		Strategic road movement is dealt with in s.8.2.1.1 of the manual.

Alfred

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 8:47:03 AM   
Maallon


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Status: offline 		Oh yeah, somehow I managed to skip that part while searching through the manual. Thanks Alfred.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 10:27:37 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

If you are one hex from a base by rail which is faster? March or Rail? As it takes 2 days to pack and unpack I am assuming marching is faster? How do you measure distance to determine which is better in these type situations?


The 2 day packing time you reference is for a regiment/brigade sized unit.

Not all units take 2 days to pack.

Battalion/company sized units pack in 1 day.

Divisions require 3 days.

As mentioned, the equation is terrain specific, but the packing time of the various sized units can be a factor in the equation.

However, strategic movement is a non-factor if the unit is 'starting one hex from a base' as the unit would have to be at a base to enter strategic movement. The question you posit is only valid if moving from one base to another.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 9/1/2021 10:29:34 AM >

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 10:39:04 AM   
Mercenary


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From: Russia.
Status: offline 		The question you posit is only valid if moving from one base to another.

...And if there is no enemy on the road.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 1:28:06 PM   
Fokko


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From: Rotterdam
Status: offline 		Not to mention fact that the unit need another 1 or 2 days to get back to combat readiness status when it has arrived

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 7:17:30 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		8.2.1.1 Operations Mode

>> Strategic - ... "The Japanese are limited to using Strategic OpMode on rail lines."

Me - and on ship TFs in Transport mode, which packs them in more tightly and gives them the opportunity to travel by rail immediately upon disembarking. The Allies of course can also do this.

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Post #: 18
RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 7:20:36 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

8.2.1.1 Operations Mode

>> Strategic - ... "The Japanese are limited to using Strategic OpMode on rail lines."

Me - and on ship TFs in Transport mode, which packs them in more tightly and gives them the opportunity to travel by rail immediately upon disembarking. The Allies of course can also do this.


Since I have only ever played as the Japanese this explains why I did not realize you could do this haha. Allies only!

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Post #: 19
RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/1/2021 7:21:06 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

see 8.3 in the Manual.

Short version: Depends on the terrain type.
If a major road is connecting the two hexes, then normal movement will be faster.
If there are no roads and both hexes are jungle hexes, then strategic movement will be faster.

The above mentioned section in the manual covers every possible situation you can encounter.


Thanks yeah found it and you are correct! I still don't see anything about Strategic moves on roads only rail?

Past one hex at what point is rail better than road? 2 hexes?

I don't see anything regarding strategic movement on roads in the manual either, so I think this feature was added after the manual was released and thus the manual doesn't cover it.

For major roads,three hexes, with normal movement mode, after that strategic movement via rail will be faster.
You can calculate stuff like this yourself though:
2 days packing + 1 day traveling + 2 days unpacking = 5 days to travel via rail
(keep in mind that packing times can vary between 1-3 days, mostly depending on unit size)
A infantry division will move at a rate of 30 miles per day on a major road and one hex is 46 miles big.
30 miles x 5 days = 150 miles
150 miles / 46 miles = 3,26 hexes -> The infantry division will be in the third hex on its route with a progress of 12 miles to the fourth.

If you look at the movement table in the manual while keeping the 5 days and the size of a hex with 46 miles in mind you will see that only major and minor roads have large enough movement rates to take you to an adjacent hex faster than 5 days and a clear hex would take you exactly 5 days.






Great info! Thanks!

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/2/2021 11:22:21 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

8.2.1.1 Operations Mode

>> Strategic - ... "The Japanese are limited to using Strategic OpMode on rail lines."

Me - and on ship TFs in Transport mode, which packs them in more tightly and gives them the opportunity to travel by rail immediately upon disembarking. The Allies of course can also do this.


Since I have only ever played as the Japanese this explains why I did not realize you could do this haha. Allies only!


Not all Allies are equal in this respect.

US Naval Ground units, Chinese and IIRC some Commonwealth cannot use Strategic Road Movement.

This is why it is sound practice to send only US Army ground units to China as they can take advantage of the major road network in a way that US Naval ground units cannot.

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Hans


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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/2/2021 12:10:17 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		As a cheat in the code, you can set the units that you want to move into Strategic movement mode for the road as long as you have one in that hex that is eligible to use that on the road, then set that eligible one to move to the target hex and set all the others to move as well. They will all strategically move - even the walking Chinese! You can even cancel the move order for the eligible one and they will still all move.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/2/2021 8:43:13 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

As a cheat in the code


Playing the code.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/2/2021 9:12:19 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

As a cheat in the code


Playing the code.




I did not state to use that cheat but to be aware of it.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/2/2021 9:19:43 PM   
rustysi


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Status: offline 		Aware means use.

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Post #: 25
RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/2/2021 9:35:08 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Aware means use.




No, it does not.

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Post #: 26
RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/3/2021 3:11:49 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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Status: offline 		Edit - never mind.

I don't think it's a cheat at all; why can't, for example, a US army unit let a USMC unit hitch a ride on its trucks? This was never changed in a patch in the 7 years they were provided, ergo, something resembling the adverse possession rule applies.


< Message edited by Ian R -- 9/3/2021 3:19:06 AM >

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/3/2021 3:17:40 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Strategic Road Movement


Kazaa thanks! So only allied units are strat road capable from this thread?


And not all of them


However, if you "stack", say, a CW unit with a UK or Indian unit, set them all to strategic (so requires a port or RR for the CW unit to change to that mode) and then give the Brit/Indian unit the road move order, and hit all to march, the CW units hitch a ride.


Which is what I pointed out and then a certain unnamed someone claims that just by being aware of something means that one does it. Just like knowing how a person lies, cheats and steals means that the person does it. So think of how many crimes are thus committed by law enforcement personnel and trial lawyers - even if they do not do said criminal acts.

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Post #: 28
RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/3/2021 3:22:40 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		See above. I don't think its a cheat. I think it actually operates as a de facto fix for a judgment issue, namely that USMC, CW and French units were omitted from the hard code that defines who can road move.

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RE: Marching vs Rail - 9/3/2021 4:55:55 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

See above. I don't think its a cheat. I think it actually operates as a de facto fix for a judgment issue, namely that USMC, CW and French units were omitted from the hard code that defines who can road move.


It was never changed in a patch because it was not an oversight. It was a deliberate decision to restrict which nationalities could could use strategic movement on roads.

Alfred

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Post #: 30
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