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What To Do With Russia - 9/15/2021 3:49:53 AM   
canuckgamer

 

Posts: 737
Joined: 6/23/2004
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After playing for about six months of PBEM we are in July 44. I am the Allies and the Axis have taken Moscow, Stalingrad and the Caucasus oil fields. However the Russians still have about 570 oil as they only have one tank and one mech unit plus all their aircraft are so beat down I have them way behind the front so very little oil being burned.
I invaded western Europe in 1943 to try and relieve the pressure but it seems pretty easy to react using the railroads so I have not yet taken Paris. There is no ability to interdict rail lines like the Allies did before D-Day.
I know there have been a number of changes in patches such as additional terrain in Russia and the shatter rule which were supposed to help.
However, reading the posts it seems that most people still think that if the Axis want to take one or more of the three main cities, it can't be stopped.
I've also seen the suggestion of converting many of the infantry corps to garrison to gain PP. I'm wondering if these corps should be placed forward? Seems to me that the further you can keep the Axis from Leningrad and Moscow in 1941 before winter hits the better. Any other tips gained from experience would be appreciated.
I think the effect of snow turns in Russia is understated in this game. Although the Russians don't lose effectiveness, they still can't attack in snow because the reduction to their combat factors due to the snow still applies to them unless they have a bunch of winter specialty units. I think some changes to the impact of Russian winters would have a significant impact and hope to see something in a future patch for War Plan or War Plan 2.

Post #: 1
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/16/2021 7:58:40 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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Never surrender.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 2
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/18/2021 4:30:41 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
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I absolutely agree that the Russians are not nearly as strong and the Axis not nearly as weak as they should be in the Winter. This is particularly true with the first Winter after Barbarossa. This has been commented on several times, but I don't think Alvaro is inclined to make any changes.

As for Russia generally, it is definitely a challenge to play. The key is to first have the proper build plan. This generally means building lots and lot of infantry corps and putting them into garrison mode. You should also build 3 more armour (giving you 6 total). Some people scrap some of the starting mechanized. Do not waste any PPs on the Russian air units by upgrading them and certainly do not build any more. Some people even scrap some air units. By April 41 you need to have a Force size of about 2200.

When Barbarossa starts do your best to slow the Axis advance while preserving your best units, especially your armour. It will not be easy. Experience is the best teacher, so you may have to play several games before you get good at this. As your Reserve units come on you will generally want to put them into garrison mode. This makes them stronger defensively while returning PPs.

During the Winter of 41/42 you want to attack the Axis even though your best odds will probably only be 1-1 or 3-2. Your primary purpose here is to increase Russian National morale. Ideally you will have it at 45%+ by the end of February 1942. The secondary purpose is to increase the Experience of your individual units. If a unit has 30% experience and the National Experience level is 40% than each time your unit takes step losses those steps will be replaced with steps of higher experience.

Good Luck (you will need it).

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 9/18/2021 4:38:10 PM >

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 3
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/18/2021 7:37:03 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
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From: Glorious Europe
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I'm working on refining (more like redesigning) my Soviet strategy and while I'm not done testing, I want to say this:

- Be careful with garrison mode, it can easily become a trap and your units get surrounded
- Priority nr1 is never get surrounded, conserve your army to fight another day
- Anything with 20% experience needs to be disbanded (except maybe your starting armor)
- Build lots and lots and even more 30% Large Infantry Corps

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 4
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 6:19:34 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I'm working on refining (more like redesigning) my Soviet strategy and while I'm not done testing, I want to say this:

- Be careful with garrison mode, it can easily become a trap and your units get surrounded
- Priority nr1 is never get surrounded, conserve your army to fight another day
- Anything with 20% experience needs to be disbanded (except maybe your starting armor)
- Build lots and lots and even more 30% Large Infantry Corps


Are you saying to disband the 20% infantry corps? If so, I disagree with you there. Every attack on these units reduces Axis effectiveness. By garrisoning all of them you will gain a lot of PP.

But I will be very interested to see how your AAR goes.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 5
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 7:27:16 AM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
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From: Glorious Europe
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The 20% units just evaporate under attack and are a waste of manpower and production. Building news ones with 50% high combat capabilities is better (30% exp vs 20%).

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 6
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 7:27:41 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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20% infantry corps in garrison mode are there to die slowing down the Axis.
Perhaps sveint refers to 20% mechanized corps.

One of my current opponent has disbanded all Red Air Force, all of them. So I have invested in paratroopers.
But I fear I will face plenty of armies next turns...

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 7
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 6:59:15 PM   
canuckgamer

 

Posts: 737
Joined: 6/23/2004
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In my opinion, converting units to garrison mode and now someone disbanding the Russian air force to gain PP's are "gamey" solutions to the problem of the Russians being too weak. I saw a screenshot in the AAR thread of a game where a player has 75% of the Russian infantry in garrison mode. The screenshot was the situation as of June 1942 (wow) and the Germans have already advanced a significant distance past Moscow and are threatening to cut off all the Russian forces in the north. Being in garrison mode will certainly limit the Russian units facing west to retreat.

All of the above highlights the need for additional changes to add more historical factors that impacted the war on the eastern front.


(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 8
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 7:14:10 PM   
stjeand


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Do NOT disband you starting army. 2 20% are MUCH better than 1 30%...WAY better.

You job is to S L O W the Germans. They will walk through a 30% infantry just as easily as a 20%...BUT 2 20% means a loss of at least 12% efficiency and that is what slows the Germans down.
With half the troops they will be twice as fast...


I expect you are talking about my AAR...where I am WAY ahead. There are a few reasons for that...

1) The Northern force sat while I advanced in the south. They should have given way and moved back. They would likely be 20+ hexes back and in a much better place.
2) The Allies need to invade somewhere to take the pressure off. Sadly this is hugely a historical but the Allies have a lot of troops in 42 and should be ruling in Africa. In my game he went for Norway and in my eyes Norway is very broken. That Allies should just capture it and take a single port in the North and dig in. That will deprive the Axis of nearly 1000PP by the end...I validated the 25 gets multiplied and in my game I am down at least that...



I think the Russians should probably have more "weak" troops to slow the Germans down. BUT the Allies have FAR to many and are able to invaded years in advance of their normal times. Not sure how to address that.


If the Russians get rid of their airforce well that is great for the Axis.

Just send bombers east and all the fighters west against the Allies. That would help out.

(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 9
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 8:15:38 PM   
Flaviusx


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Wait until Alvaro decides to fix the Russians. He broke them several patches back when he reduced their experience and delayed the mobility upgrades. The garrison mode does not make up for this.

You can tell from all the desperate expedients people are fooling around with that it just isn't there yet. It should not be this complicated.

For myself, I'm out until and unless this happens.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 10
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 9:42:01 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

In my opinion, converting units to garrison mode and now someone disbanding the Russian air force to gain PP's are "gamey" solutions to the problem of the Russians being too weak. I saw a screenshot in the AAR thread of a game where a player has 75% of the Russian infantry in garrison mode. The screenshot was the situation as of June 1942 (wow) and the Germans have already advanced a significant distance past Moscow and are threatening to cut off all the Russian forces in the north. Being in garrison mode will certainly limit the Russian units facing west to retreat.

All of the above highlights the need for additional changes to add more historical factors that impacted the war on the eastern front.



I personally don't think converting units to garrison mode is "gamey". But I do agree that the Russians being required to do this and/or trash the Russian air force in order to have any chance of winning is a big problem. The Russians need to be restored to 35% experience at least.

(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 11
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 10:10:30 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

I think the Russians should probably have more "weak" troops to slow the Germans down. BUT the Allies have FAR to many and are able to invaded years in advance of their normal times. Not sure how to address that.



I agree that in almost all games the Western Allies have larger land forces than historical; but they also in almost all games have smaller air forces. For example, as the Western Allies I personally don't build any strategic bombers or ASW Bombers and I build much fewer Tactical Bombers and fighters than the Allies did historically. So the reason I may have 10 to 15 extra land units than historical is because I have 10 to 15 fewer air units than historical. The Allies aren't alone in emphasizing land units over air units. In our game I don't think you have built any German or Italian air units at all, but at your peak you had something like 25 Axis Armour and Mechanized units.

Ideally the game would divide each nations production into 3 pools: Land, Air and Naval; so that players could only use each type of production for units, replacements and upgrades of that type. But do we want this increased level of complication?


< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 9/19/2021 10:11:50 PM >

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 12
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/19/2021 10:11:03 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Wait until Alvaro decides to fix the Russians. He broke them several patches back when he reduced their experience and delayed the mobility upgrades. The garrison mode does not make up for this.

You can tell from all the desperate expedients people are fooling around with that it just isn't there yet. It should not be this complicated.

For myself, I'm out until and unless this happens.


+1

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 13
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/20/2021 8:20:48 AM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
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Earlier this year you saw me face down the greatest Allied Player in Warplan Europe as far as I know. Nobody does what he does and what you all fail to do. You do not use the Western Allies aggressively enough to alleviate the burden upon the Russians. Mr. ComradejaKorp, if he doesn't play anymore(you could read our AARs if any exist or any of his exist and follow his recipe) I understand he made me fight till Berlin was on the verge of falling the last turns of the game. I couldn't ever destroy the Soviets vs Him for the pressure in the West was ever present. He never relented. You guys take breaks in your grand strategy allowing the Axis to steamroll the Russians and that's why you lose so easily in the East.

The fact is the British/Americans/Canadians have to get dirty and get their pretty little units destroyed. They have to threaten every inch of the Reich and every port/position they can step into they must do. They have to fight for France till the last British Dies and that's how you Defend the Soviets at least as of the Patch of around the beginning of the year and I do not believe the economic system has been re-worked so therefore I have handed you all the recipe to defend the Soviets.

It's nearly impossible in competent hands for the Axis to survive and experienced Allied Player. I only managed a technical victory vs him 1 time and I really had to think out of the box to achieve this. He had Italy, France and near historical conquest of Eastern Europe and Germany. The only thing I think that allowed me to win is I killed probably 3 or 4 Million Brits and about as many Americans.

If there is a turn you're not invading Europe with a competent Ally he is not competent. The Axis thrive on time and rest(that's when they can refit and smash you)!

As far as defending the Soviets, the Air gets better but initially once the bled Axis try to hurt you they get a bit far in there, you just have to hold the line, wait for '42 and the Axis will have to respond to the Western Allies in Force so much to the point that nothing will happen till '43. This should be pretty easy. . . By '44 you should wear the Axis down in manpower(unless these rules have changed) that they have to dig into Romania/Hungary and Italy just to man a few defenses. The core counter offensive Axis are just reacting to the constant Massive Invasions.

Allies are Flush with Cash it just takes time for them to use it. Axis are short on it and they get easily bled and their Manpower is abysmal for the Germans.

P.S. Axis Air is disgusting later in the game, it is so frail it cannot even build up enough effectiveness and tech to bother surviving past '44. Probably even '43.

P.S.S. The reason why you have heavily experienced Axis tanks is you didn't fight in other places ... France + early D-Day is the key. A D-Day where the Axis know they must un-entrench you and they have to wear out their armor doing it. Where they cannot get away with taking every piece of real-estate for free and getting Free XP.

Follow my recipe the right way if you can figure out to replicate it and Yeah Russia will have to lose 1 Major City but not likely 2.

(Final Point: Germany has a Tiny bit of Manpower, she has all the production she needs late game she just can't maintain her units, their experience and or build new ones... Once you kill her Manpower RIP Germany and UK/USA with the Soviets dying in droves just are a tidal wave they can't deal with in the end. I had so much cash vs Comrade I was sending as much of my Production as I could to my Axis Allies and I was still flush with cash without any use for it... Germany just doesn't have the manpower when constantly engaged in the early game to last the late game unless a rework was done so that's the attrition Warfare that saves the Russians from defeat) KEY IS: how to bleed the Germans cleverly and not get smashed(clever choices, locations, landings and constant engagements and neverending Truck Supply)

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 9/20/2021 8:42:13 AM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 14
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/20/2021 12:36:55 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana
I agree that in almost all games the Western Allies have larger land forces than historical; but they also in almost all games have smaller air forces. For example, as the Western Allies I personally don't build any strategic bombers or ASW Bombers and I build much fewer Tactical Bombers and fighters than the Allies did historically. So the reason I may have 10 to 15 extra land units than historical is because I have 10 to 15 fewer air units than historical. The Allies aren't alone in emphasizing land units over air units. In our game I don't think you have built any German or Italian air units at all, but at your peak you had something like 25 Axis Armour and Mechanized units.

Ideally the game would divide each nations production into 3 pools: Land, Air and Naval; so that players could only use each type of production for units, replacements and upgrades of that type. But do we want this increased level of complication?


Yes I did have a lot of armor / mech BUT also had to build submarines, and the Allies Escorts and Merchant ships...

But they did not do the Germans a lot of good when I smart Russian player knows how to destroy them. I think you have destroyed over 15 in a single year with many more to die.

I did not build any air...I find extra pretty useless. They are just a money pit that in the end just die. I wish I could find a better use of them then to break single units in specific areas but I have not.


I would call some of the testing gimmicks...but I think people are trying to learn the correct way to play the Russians. I am trying to find the right way to play the Germans and the Russians...

Perhaps the Russians just need to build tons of infantry...perhaps more armor or mech...
Not sure yet...I don't play them enough to test them. I have some new ideas to try after watching Harry wipe out the Germans in a single year but it is a LOT of work to "try" something.



For all on this thread...

I can easily tell you how to "modify" the scenario to be like it was prior.

Russian experience can be modified.
Russian armor movement can be modified.

Just let me know what you want and I let you know if possible and will happily test.




(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 15
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/20/2021 12:41:50 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline
As for complication...

What is weird is there are shipyards...why bother with those but not have factories for air and / or armor?

Don't think it would add all that much complication...


NOW if you are strategic bombers to strike at these factories, and destroy them or take them off line for X turns...THAT would be more complicated and maybe make strategic bombing useful.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 16
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 4:05:42 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Earlier this year you saw me face down the greatest Allied Player in Warplan Europe as far as I know. Nobody does what he does and what you all fail to do. You do not use the Western Allies aggressively enough to alleviate the burden upon the Russians. Mr. ComradejaKorp, if he doesn't play anymore(you could read our AARs if any exist or any of his exist and follow his recipe) I understand he made me fight till Berlin was on the verge of falling the last turns of the game. I couldn't ever destroy the Soviets vs Him for the pressure in the West was ever present. He never relented. You guys take breaks in your grand strategy allowing the Axis to steamroll the Russians and that's why you lose so easily in the East.

The fact is the British/Americans/Canadians have to get dirty and get their pretty little units destroyed. They have to threaten every inch of the Reich and every port/position they can step into they must do. They have to fight for France till the last British Dies and that's how you Defend the Soviets at least as of the Patch of around the beginning of the year and I do not believe the economic system has been re-worked so therefore I have handed you all the recipe to defend the Soviets.

It's nearly impossible in competent hands for the Axis to survive and experienced Allied Player. I only managed a technical victory vs him 1 time and I really had to think out of the box to achieve this. He had Italy, France and near historical conquest of Eastern Europe and Germany. The only thing I think that allowed me to win is I killed probably 3 or 4 Million Brits and about as many Americans.

If there is a turn you're not invading Europe with a competent Ally he is not competent. The Axis thrive on time and rest(that's when they can refit and smash you)!

As far as defending the Soviets, the Air gets better but initially once the bled Axis try to hurt you they get a bit far in there, you just have to hold the line, wait for '42 and the Axis will have to respond to the Western Allies in Force so much to the point that nothing will happen till '43. This should be pretty easy. . . By '44 you should wear the Axis down in manpower(unless these rules have changed) that they have to dig into Romania/Hungary and Italy just to man a few defenses. The core counter offensive Axis are just reacting to the constant Massive Invasions.

Allies are Flush with Cash it just takes time for them to use it. Axis are short on it and they get easily bled and their Manpower is abysmal for the Germans.

P.S. Axis Air is disgusting later in the game, it is so frail it cannot even build up enough effectiveness and tech to bother surviving past '44. Probably even '43.

P.S.S. The reason why you have heavily experienced Axis tanks is you didn't fight in other places ... France + early D-Day is the key. A D-Day where the Axis know they must un-entrench you and they have to wear out their armor doing it. Where they cannot get away with taking every piece of real-estate for free and getting Free XP.

Follow my recipe the right way if you can figure out to replicate it and Yeah Russia will have to lose 1 Major City but not likely 2.

(Final Point: Germany has a Tiny bit of Manpower, she has all the production she needs late game she just can't maintain her units, their experience and or build new ones... Once you kill her Manpower RIP Germany and UK/USA with the Soviets dying in droves just are a tidal wave they can't deal with in the end. I had so much cash vs Comrade I was sending as much of my Production as I could to my Axis Allies and I was still flush with cash without any use for it... Germany just doesn't have the manpower when constantly engaged in the early game to last the late game unless a rework was done so that's the attrition Warfare that saves the Russians from defeat) KEY IS: how to bleed the Germans cleverly and not get smashed(clever choices, locations, landings and constant engagements and neverending Truck Supply)


ComradejaKorps is a good player and the only player so far to beat me as the Allies with me as the Axis. But he beat me by dropping French and British paratroopers into Italy in 1940. After that we played a more conventional game. He tried invading everywhere as you say, but the end result was the Axis conquering Russia in 41 or 42. The game is balanced enough that the more skilled player will generally win no matter which side he plays. But a good German Player will beat a good Allied player pretty much ever time. I think perfect examples are my AARs with Sveint. In my game as the Allies I was aggressive with the British and had pretty much captured Libya by the time the Germans surrounded and isolated the best part of the Russian Army in August 1941. In my game as the Germans I was able to cripple the Russians while still maintaining a sizeable army (including 3 mechanized corps) to watch the British. Also the ability of the British and Americans to launch large invasions (4+ Corps requiring 120 LS) is now a lot more difficult due to the need to use their limited shipyards to build MS and escorts.

I play both the Axis and the Allies equally. But to anyone who thinks that the game is balanced I will gladly play the Axis and prove you wrong.



(in reply to battlevonwar)
Post #: 17
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 4:17:13 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana
I agree that in almost all games the Western Allies have larger land forces than historical; but they also in almost all games have smaller air forces. For example, as the Western Allies I personally don't build any strategic bombers or ASW Bombers and I build much fewer Tactical Bombers and fighters than the Allies did historically. So the reason I may have 10 to 15 extra land units than historical is because I have 10 to 15 fewer air units than historical. The Allies aren't alone in emphasizing land units over air units. In our game I don't think you have built any German or Italian air units at all, but at your peak you had something like 25 Axis Armour and Mechanized units.

Ideally the game would divide each nations production into 3 pools: Land, Air and Naval; so that players could only use each type of production for units, replacements and upgrades of that type. But do we want this increased level of complication?


Yes I did have a lot of armor / mech BUT also had to build submarines, and the Allies Escorts and Merchant ships...

But they did not do the Germans a lot of good when I smart Russian player knows how to destroy them. I think you have destroyed over 15 in a single year with many more to die.

I did not build any air...I find extra pretty useless. They are just a money pit that in the end just die. I wish I could find a better use of them then to break single units in specific areas but I have not.

I would call some of the testing gimmicks...but I think people are trying to learn the correct way to play the Russians. I am trying to find the right way to play the Germans and the Russians...

Perhaps the Russians just need to build tons of infantry...perhaps more armor or mech...
Not sure yet...I don't play them enough to test them. I have some new ideas to try after watching Harry wipe out the Germans in a single year but it is a LOT of work to "try" something.



I am beginning to agree with you that the British and US receive perhaps a bit too much production and the Russians not enough. perhaps decreasing UK and US production by 10% each and increasing Russian production by 25% would help. Just a thought.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 18
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 6:02:13 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
Why not. The problem with Russian production is that you have just enough to buy an army each turn and this is all.
Buying half army is not possible.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 19
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 1:00:57 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline
I have to think about the production thing...

It is easy to change British and US production by 10% and add 25% to the Russians...
But if you proved anything in our game, numbers far out way experience.
That seems to be an issue.
I honestly thought our game would be fun as the Germans defended against inferior mass numbers of Russians...but totally the opposite.
They walked right through seasoned troops like they were not even there. In fact infantry seems to defend much better than armor or mech.
Yes it costs 2 infantry armies for multiple months but they are able to destroy a mech / panzer 90% of the time without hesitation.
There were 20 in Russia when the war started...now there are 2. And that is in a year.
The swings are too big.

Perhaps the Russians should get more units to start and more units in reserve rather than more PP.
OR even the factories that rail back to the Urals...maybe they are more PP to start then when they move create less PP...
Maybe that would give the Russians more weak units to slow the Germans which is what they need?
Then again maybe they will just build more armor and mech and it will be a quickly rout come 44...if the game gets there.

Not sure...all this would have to be tested and that takes months and months.



I am starting to see why few German players play past 1943 if they have not won or have crippled Russia.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 20
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 2:42:56 PM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

In our game I don't think you have built any German or Italian air units at all, but at your peak you had something like 25 Axis Armour and Mechanized units.


25 Armor and Mech Corps! That is more corps than the Nazis had divisions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Ideally the game would divide each nations production into 3 pools: Land, Air and Naval; so that players could only use each type of production for units, replacements and upgrades of that type. But do we want this increased level of complication?


I would look at increasing Mech and Armor units fuel usage and/or buying cost to try to bring the amount of armor in the game down to a more historic level. It would also make strategic bombing of German synthetic oil much more relevant.

The problem with the air is that they are just not cost effective and from a combined arms approach they do not work properly. I would look at also decreasing a units movement allowance due to air strikes. An airstrike just doesn't kill people (a lot less than folks believe) or reduce their efficiency, but, and probably more importantly, it suppresses the units ability to move. You would be surprised at what difference it would make to be able to take away 1 movement point via air strikes.

It also appears to me that garrisons are a tad (or more) overpowered. Perhaps this is to compensate for so much armor on the battlefield. Nevertheless, look at the Maginot Line. It is pretty much impossible to break through that... yet the Nazis did.

If ya'll are looking to improve the game, I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective if you are concentrated on "improving Russia." In general, I believe there are some basic game mechanics, with just a little bit of tweeking, would make a huge difference to how this game is played.

< Message edited by Lava -- 9/21/2021 2:54:29 PM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 21
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 3:23:10 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Having to fight a sea of troops in garrison mode (in France, Soviet union or whatever) is so boring and gamey, event if successfull.

I do not think it is a step in the right direction for the game. WW2 was attack and counter attack all the time.

Working on oil supply and similar mecanism is much more interesting for balance adjustment.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/21/2021 3:25:03 PM >

(in reply to *Lava*)
Post #: 22
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 3:48:05 PM   
*Lava*


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I'm just in my 2nd game as the allies vs the AI with a small boost.

I pretty much put all the French in garrison mode and then kept supplying them with trucks. The Nazis had at least 9 armored units but the French were able to hold out until April of 1941.

Looks like it will be the Russians declaring war on the Axis in 1942.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 23
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 3:58:29 PM   
Nirosi

 

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quote:

ComradejaKorps is a good player and the only player so far to beat me as the Allies with me as the Axis. But he beat me by dropping French and British paratroopers into Italy in 1940. After that we played a more conventional game. He tried invading everywhere as you say,


And even that would be very very hard now as Italy is much more solid and does not fall on the first city lost (so losing Turin in 1940 for example is not the end of the world and just a waste of UK/French resources probably) and the UK will have an harder time invading everywhere after their nerf.

Although I agree that the UK nerf was a good idea, it does however emphasize even more what happens very often in the East...

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 24
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 4:36:23 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

In our game I don't think you have built any German or Italian air units at all, but at your peak you had something like 25 Axis Armour and Mechanized units.


25 Armor and Mech Corps! That is more corps than the Nazis had divisions.


Is it a game started with the latest patch?

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Post #: 25
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 4:39:04 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Having to fight a sea of troops in garrison mode (in France, Soviet union or whatever) is so boring and gamey, event if successfull.

I do not think it is a step in the right direction for the game. WW2 was attack and counter attack all the time.

Working on oil supply and similar mecanism is much more interesting for balance adjustment.


Yeah, it remembers me about the gamey ant tactics in TOAW3.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 26
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 5:08:51 PM   
stjeand


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Our game was started pre patch...and in 1941 just before the attack on Russia it was patched.
That messed me up as the Axis as all my German infantry were in Garrison mode and now I had to pay more to get them out...which forced me to wait until 1942 to attack Russia.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 27
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 5:22:34 PM   
ncc1701e


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Okay but that is explaining the huge number of Axis Armour and Mechanized units. Now, you will not anymore garrison the entire Axis army just after France to build this amount.
You should take this into consideration before saying Russia is too weak.

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You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 28
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 6:53:07 PM   
stjeand


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I have taken it into account.
Keep in mind I was the Axis and I lost and I think they are too weak and the Allies are to strong.


You are correct, I will not garrison and will attack in 1941 NOT 1942 so I will have much less armor.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 29
RE: What To Do With Russia - 9/21/2021 7:44:04 PM   
ncc1701e


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One silly idea. A Russian infantry army is 36/36 strength. Why not do an exception for all Russian armor corps and all mechanized corps? Now instead of being 30/30 strength, put them at 36/36 strength.
This way, they are stronger. But, they are gaining experience quicker since steps replacement will be quicker.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 30
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