HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016 Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: loki100 quote:
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain quote:
ORIGINAL: loki100 quote:
ORIGINAL: erikbengtsson I think the biggest difference is a Soviet player has historical hindsight, and doesn't commit the catastrophical and self-defeating errors that Stalin and Stavka did in 1941 and during much of 42. Germany lost the war on June 22nd of 1941. Soviet errors simply made that less than obvious for a while. yep, fully agree. assuming a reasonable match, then the axis shouldn't be able to win (in the sense that the Soviet Union is reduced to some sort of rump state over the Urals). What we are currently seeing is reports of quick German wins (usually in the sense the Soviet player gives up leaving no real idea of how well they can recover). Take 'received wisdom' and Leningrad. At one stage in testing, it was declared it was impossible to take, then players started to work out how to take it. Ok, we now see games where Leningrad is taken. Its a nice VP bonus, shortens the line, but beyond that? My concern at the moment is a feeling that the balance pt should be roughly the historical German advance in 1941. No its feasible, and sensible, that German players may wish to pull up short of this, but that should be something regularly seen. And its actually near to impossible, even vs the AI (on 110) you can forget about achieving it Reading this makes me want to find another game if the Germans can't or should never win :(. Game wise you have a game that is going to see a mass exodus of players leaving once the realization is that playing Germany is a no-win scenario. Matter of fact I already see that with a few die hards trying to prove it is possible to still win as Germany. Well the question should be, "Is it possible at the same skill level"? Is it? Probably not, so why play a game then when you can't win? Most won't. I am one of those die-hards that loves the German side & will try my best but even my best I don't feel is going to be good enough. I think there are 2 issues and you are conflating them a wee bit. Could the Germans win this war - I actually don't think so. Laying aside they were stretched everywhere else, quite simply the Soviet system was that horrible (to deal with) combination of very robust and very dispersed. Once it stoppped losing on the battlefields it was going to start winning. Now maybe that spins off into a long brutal slogging match but only one side wins when wars in this era in the end come to raw resources. Now should a German player have a route to win the game? Yes, and they are in the game (quite a few of them). There are enough vs AI reports of German players managing this. My main concern here, is less can the German win, more why are we not seeing them lose historically? I actually think the answer to one (in game turns) is the answer to the other. Who is conflating what now ? ;-). Seems you just did it too. For instance you are comparing with AI vs player we are not comparing the same apple. When the conversation deviates from player vs player I am out since I already know the bread and butter money maker is player vs AI with the majority of the player base playing against the AI. @ last para are we talking in PvP game terms or in PvAI game terms? I still feel the Germans can win even if it is a Phricc victory in 44 after getting beat to crap with current ruleset. It will be a long tough road with equal skilled players for the Germans. At least that is what I am trying to prove. This is just what I read, and then wrote about, is the "feeling" I got from reading all the above comments in the previous post.
< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 8/28/2021 5:52:44 PM >
|