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[Poll]

Game Balance


Axis are generally too strong
  26% (5)
Axis are slightly too strong
  31% (6)
Game is balanced
  26% (5)
Allies are slightly too strong
  5% (1)
Allies are incredibly strong
  5% (1)
Tanks and mech are too strong thats the problem
  5% (1)


Total Votes : 19
(last vote on : 11/19/2021 7:15:56 AM)
(Poll ended: 11/21/2021 7:00:00 AM)
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RE: Game Balance - 11/24/2021 7:10:11 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelCLARADY

From what I have seen the Allies have a distinct 1940 advantage in that the Brits can still put far more forces into France than their real 1940 ability to mobilize allows AND no account is taken of the fragile morale of the French Army in 1940 and the feckless defeatist mindset of their government As to the USSR- allow their armor/mech the same op points as the Germans from the very beginning.


1. Yes UK can field more units in France but at the cost of a less good defense in Egypt. UK won't prevent France to fall.

2. The fragile morale of French army is taken into account in their experience. All French land units have 40% experience.

3. For USSR, in 1941, their mech/armor were too big. Impossible to command by their officers. That's why they have created brigades and later bring back the corps. But, it was in 1942. The OP points of Russian armor/mechanized corps is an elegant way to present this problem imo.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to michaelCLARADY)
Post #: 61
RE: Game Balance - 11/24/2021 7:50:17 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		About 3. more intel here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanised_corps_(Soviet_Union)

quote:

That being said, during the war against the Axis, all mechanised corps stationed in frontline areas were destroyed during the early phase of the invasion of the Soviet Union (including 4th and 6th), and less than a month after the attack, the Red Army formally abolished the Mechanised Corps as a formation type. Remaining tanks were concentrated in smaller formations that were easier to handle.


quote:

In September 1942, the General Headquarters (Stavka) authorized the formation of a new type of mechanised corps which was to become the main operational mechanised formation for the remainder of the war. They were about the same size as a German panzer division, and designed as a true combined-arms formation with a good balance of armor, infantry, and artillery. Mechanised corps were not to be used in breakthrough battles, but only in the exploitation phase of an operation.


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 62
RE: Game Balance - 11/25/2021 2:56:43 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		I won't say that the UK can not prevent France from falling...because they can.

IF they dump a full all in strategy, since they do not need anything in Africa until they lose Paris, they can have a huge army in France.
I believe I have had 2 armor corps, 2 mech corps and 8 army corps and still a few corps in the UK to keep from being invaded just in case.
More if you get rid of the bombers. I think you can get a 3rd armor from the UK...
Add to that a French armor, yes they are "weaker" but you have an armor/mech force equal to the Germans.

I have stopped a LOT of players from taking France and decimated the German army. A few times even taking out all their armor.

The Brits can quickly retreat to all the ports and get out when the time comes running to Africa...but they definitely can cause a major headache in France.

I personally have stopped this because only 1 player, to my memory, has been able to get through France against me when I do (with losses of at least 4 German corps and very heavy damage to the rest)...though I have not played Harry like this (he has asked a few times) but I am sure he could get through though at what cost.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 63
RE: Game Balance - 11/25/2021 3:42:01 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

I won't say that the UK can not prevent France from falling...because they can.

IF they dump a full all in strategy, since they do not need anything in Africa until they lose Paris, they can have a huge army in France.
I believe I have had 2 armor corps, 2 mech corps and 8 army corps and still a few corps in the UK to keep from being invaded just in case.
More if you get rid of the bombers. I think you can get a 3rd armor from the UK...
Add to that a French armor, yes they are "weaker" but you have an armor/mech force equal to the Germans.

I have stopped a LOT of players from taking France and decimated the German army. A few times even taking out all their armor.

The Brits can quickly retreat to all the ports and get out when the time comes running to Africa...but they definitely can cause a major headache in France.

I personally have stopped this because only 1 player, to my memory, has been able to get through France against me when I do (with losses of at least 4 German corps and very heavy damage to the rest)...though I have not played Harry like this (he has asked a few times) but I am sure he could get through though at what cost.


You can do this against me after next patch, please. Maybe I can actually beat you in a game.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 64
RE: Game Balance - 11/25/2021 4:30:44 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

IF they dump a full all in strategy, since they do not need anything in Africa until they lose Paris, they can have a huge army in France.
I believe I have had 2 armor corps, 2 mech corps and 8 army corps and still a few corps in the UK to keep from being invaded just in case.
More if you get rid of the bombers. I think you can get a 3rd armor from the UK...
Add to that a French armor, yes they are "weaker" but you have an armor/mech force equal to the Germans.


Using which patch level? V1.00.141?

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 65
RE: Game Balance - 11/25/2021 6:19:58 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		With the new air rules coming into play I don't think the UK can afford to do this.
The German air will pound the crap out of the armor losing Opts.

I can get I believe 6 armor/mech built as Germany for France.

If the French do pull out the Italians have a field day.
If the British pull out then I take Africa

Someone is losing something.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
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(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 66
RE: Game Balance - 11/26/2021 11:04:58 AM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		I have not replayed this in a while since it made the game boring and unfun...
Maybe it does not work any more.
Don't forget the UK lost 100 str and it was due to this strategy.

Keep in mind KNOWING what the Allies are doing will change what you do as the Axis.
The Axis can not tell what the Allies are doing this until Feb / March of 40...by then their builds are set.

So Italy is sitting trying to build their early armor / mech / mtn troops...
Germany is not likely building 120 LC to invade the UK...But their normal 2 armor / 2 mech / then armor / mech / fighter


I have never had an issue in Africa because the UK can transport damaged corps from France there very quickly and Italy can't do anything until Paris falls.
And begin emergency repairs on them before the Germans can mount any sort of invasion.

Also the German air has to win against the Brits and French air or they can't do anything. There has been a game or ​two that as the Germans I lost 60 / 40 and then had to ground my air. Plus the British and French have 4 bombers now to slow the Germans if they want to use them as such.


BUT all this is speculation with a patch I have not tested.


As the Germans, yes normally 4 armor / 2 mech / another armor / mech coming in June?
As the Brits...IF they leave the WDF in Africa 2 armor / 2 mech....France 1 armor



And yes someone is losing...in my experience so far it has been the Germans.



Again I am not complaining since I do not do this...
Just hoping that this does not happen is all.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 67
RE: Game Balance - 11/26/2021 7:12:08 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		I only use 4 panzers for France. Anything else is overkill. I also (may) build airpower,u-boats and lots of infantry. France is mainly a slow-moving infantry battle.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 68
RE: Game Balance - 11/27/2021 3:31:46 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

The Russians have a lot of reserve units.


According to this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_armies

Around 40 armies were formed from June 1941 to December 1941.

There are 25 Reserve Unit i.e. 25 armies in the Deployment queue at the start of Europe 1939 scenario.
All these armies are Assault 1939. AND you need the PP to upgrade them as well.

AND you need the PP for 15 Armies to reach December 1941 with something not far from history.

An army Assault 1941 costs 216 PP. 15 x 216 PP = 3240 PP

Let say that with the new rail repair rate, we will save around 10 corps thus 5 armies after conversion, plus the upgrades to be done in terms of advancement.

So, they are a shortage of 10 reserve armies to be built. That's a lot of production points.

AND, at the same time, with the new air rule, I am guessing that the Soviets will need to invest a LOT in planes to defend themselves. Repairing and upgrading their weak units will take PP and time.

In conclusion, I would not be against few more reserve armies at Assault 1939... let say around 5.

Time will tell us if this is needed or not. The goal is 1942. For me, in 1942, Germans must have the initiative. They must be able to attack BUT NOT everywhere on the frontline.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 69
RE: Game Balance - 11/27/2021 3:52:46 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		And I forgot the upkeep needed to repair all the damage done by the Germans to my on-map units...

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 70
RE: Game Balance - 11/27/2021 5:25:54 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		To be fair, in addition to the Reserve Armies and the built Armies the Soviets will also receive Armies created from the conversion of Corps to Armies.

My gripe isn't with the number of Soviet Armies, but rather with their quality. In particular that the Reserve Armies are only 39 tech. I personally would rather see them all come on with 41 Tech. I suppose this might be unfair to an Axis player who invades Russia in 1940, but how often is that really going to happen? I think it would be better to get things right for the 1941 invasion that happens in most games, and not worry about the 1940 invasion that almost never happens or the 42 invasion that seldom happens.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 11/28/2021 12:13:17 AM >

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 71
RE: Game Balance - 11/27/2021 6:31:12 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

To be fair, in addition to the Reserve Armies and the built Armies the Soviets will also receive Armies created from the conversion of Corps to Armies.

My gripe isn't with the number of Soviet Armies, but rather with their quality. In particular that the Reserve Armies are only 39 tech. I personally would rather see them all come on with 41 Tech. I suppose this might be unfair to an Axis player who invades Russia in 1940, but how often is that really going to happen? I think it would be better to get things right for the 1941 invasion that happens in most games, than for the 1940 invasion that almost never happens or the 42 invasion that seldom happens.


After few games with 1.00.141, and defeats , my opinion is:

UK & USA are well balanced (The Battle of Atlantic, if well played by the Allies, is closed to perfection).
My only issue is Shore Bombardment that is too powerful in helping the Allies during Italy conquest.

France is well balanced

Italy is perhaps a little overrated but that's ok.

Germany is ok.

Russia is clearly not powerful enough. I think I understand now the 30% experience because it obliges the Russian to fight. I think a lot of people forgot the run-away strategy from the early days of the game. The 30% experience is just for this.

Yes the corps to army conversion is there but how many corps do you really save in 1941? In particular, when Germans launch Barbarossa in April 1941 (Still don't understand how people do the build up so quickly).

Russia needs to throw armies after armies to slow down the Germans. I don't care if the reserve armies are Assault 1939.
“Quantity has a Quality All Its Own”. And, that's why more reserve armies for the Russian can be a solution. I don't ask for 50, I just ask for 5 more.

A solution to build a two line defense in front of Leningrad, Moscow or Voronezh now that you don't lose entrenchment with swapping. But not everywhere of course so that the Germans can still do plenty of damage in 1942.

My favorite tactic (may be a bad one) is to send a fresh 30% experience Assault 1939 infantry army on the frontline. Just for the losses, and just for gaining experience. Only way to gain experience by the way.

The right feeling for Barbarossa, and Case Blue, is the German guy super happy to have destroy 4 armies the last turn just to find 4 new armies in front of him. In 1941, with the infantry corps, I have this feeling of “Quantity has a Quality All Its Own”.

In 1942, once you have merged the few corps remaining, and build around 10 new infantry armies, I don't have anymore this feeling. Once Germans armor breaks your front, there is nothing behind to stop them to encircle and then this is game over.

You don't give me quality fair enough. Give me quantity then.


< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 11/27/2021 6:34:12 PM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 72
RE: Game Balance - 11/27/2021 8:22:28 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		I just launch Europe 1942 by curiosity. Small poll, who is reaching this OOB by end of June 1942?

62 Infantry Armies
5 Tank Corps
2 Paratrooper Corps
7 Air Superiority Group
2 Ground Attack Group
7 Tactical Air Group
1 Strategic Air Group
0 Mechanized Corps => but disbanding all Mechanized Corps gives 1450 PP (first turn of Europe 1939) => which gives only 8 armies Assault 1939.

So, let's say 25 reserve armies + 2 already on the map in Europe 1939 + 3 Siberian armies + what you buy at first turn of Barbarossa (7~10 armies at best?) + all mechanized disbanded = 25 + 2 + 3 + 10 + 8 = 48 + one per turn you are lucky.

Are you reaching these numbers? Just tell me the truth, I am a bad player, right?






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 73
RE: Game Balance - 11/27/2021 8:45:31 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		In my current game, end of June 1942, I will be around 58 infantry armies with the disband of all my tactical bombers (gain of 770 PP). And, I am in a bad shape.
Shame, I am about to win BoA...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 11/27/2021 8:58:06 PM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 74
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 12:16:20 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I will let you know if/when my game with MM foes that far. I certainly won't have an air force anywhere near that size though.

But I think people forget that the Russians did lose a lot of men and gave up a lot of ground from June to November 42. The problem for the Russians in 1942 is making them weak enough so that they Bend but don't Break. Very difficult to get this right, especially since players skill levels will have a huge impact.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 11/28/2021 12:22:17 AM >

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 75
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 5:13:47 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I will let you know if/when my game with MM foes that far. I certainly won't have an air force anywhere near that size though.


Thanks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

But I think people forget that the Russians did lose a lot of men and gave up a lot of ground from June to November 42. The problem for the Russians in 1942 is making them weak enough so that they Bend but don't Break. Very difficult to get this right, especially since players skill levels will have a huge impact.


I absolutely do not forget it. Case Blue was a big retreat for Russians but never a collapse.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 76
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 5:36:01 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		But doing some little calculation, imagine I am withdrawing on the red dots line below. Count the number of red dots.
There are 40 red dots meaning a need for 40 armies.

In the north, between Leningrad and Moscow, I count a need of 20 armies.
To protect from the Finns, may be 5 armies.

My red dots line is on the Oka river because it is almost impossible to hold Tula in this game. And even on the Oka river, the game is ignoring all the marshes and forests east of Moscow on a line Moscow - Vladimir - Gorki.

And this is a one line defense with armies that are not good due to low experience.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 77
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 5:45:23 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		People disband planes to buy land units: tanks or armies. Why? Because obviously, there is a lack of land units.

Retaking this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_armies

There are 12 Infantry armies that were formed in 1939. On the game map at the beginning of Europe 1939, we have only 2 Infantry armies. We need for Russia more armies. Bad ok, but more.

Germans must have the feeling of quantity. Three solutions:
1. put more Infantry armies on the map in Europe 1939 scenario
2. put more reserve Infantry armies in the Deployment queue in Europe 1939 scenario
3. a combination of both




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 11/28/2021 5:48:10 AM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 78
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 12:24:04 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		All right, just checking my next turn before playing it. I am short of at least 7 Infantry Armies to hold a line.

Third airborne attacks in two turns (one Italian, two Germans). Russia has no more Air Superiority group able to perform full support. There are too much damaged and I have no PP to repair them.

Of course, I am full speed on producing Infantry Army but now with holes in my line, Panzers are destroying armies faster than I am creating them. This is easy for them, they just encircle and destroy them one by one.

Yes, I am short of Infantry Armies. No reserves. The snowball effect is starting.

GAME OVER

I am now convinced that if you are putting more reserve Infantry Armies, let's say between 5 and 10, this situation won't happen. It will be a desperate fight for 1942 but a fight to hold and to win in 1943.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 79
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 4:54:11 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

But doing some little calculation, imagine I am withdrawing on the red dots line below. Count the number of red dots.
There are 40 red dots meaning a need for 40 armies.

In the north, between Leningrad and Moscow, I count a need of 20 armies.
To protect from the Finns, may be 5 armies.

My red dots line is on the Oka river because it is almost impossible to hold Tula in this game. And even on the Oka river, the game is ignoring all the marshes and forests east of Moscow on a line Moscow - Vladimir - Gorki.

And this is a one line defense with armies that are not good due to low experience.






This assumes that the Russians had an Army in every hex of the line. I don't think this was the case by this time in the Caucuses.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 80
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 5:09:24 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

People disband planes to buy land units: tanks or armies. Why? Because obviously, there is a lack of land units.


There is always a lack of ground units. Even if the Russians received the extra 5 Armies you state they should have they will still want more (at least I would). So Since air units, especially for the Russian, are not very effective, the smart players will still disband them to build more ground units. But this will hopefully all change with the next patch.

quote:

Retaking this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_armies

There are 12 Infantry armies that were formed in 1939. On the game map at the beginning of Europe 1939, we have only 2 Infantry armies. We need for Russia more armies. Bad ok, but more.

Germans must have the feeling of quantity. Three solutions:
1. put more Infantry armies on the map in Europe 1939 scenario
2. put more reserve Infantry armies in the Deployment queue in Europe 1939 scenario
3. a combination of both


Again, my preference would be to have higher quality (41 tech) Russian Units.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 81
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 5:19:23 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

All right, just checking my next turn before playing it. I am short of at least 7 Infantry Armies to hold a line.

Third airborne attacks in two turns (one Italian, two Germans). Russia has no more Air Superiority group able to perform full support. There are too much damaged and I have no PP to repair them.

Of course, I am full speed on producing Infantry Army but now with holes in my line, Panzers are destroying armies faster than I am creating them. This is easy for them, they just encircle and destroy them one by one.

Yes, I am short of Infantry Armies. No reserves. The snowball effect is starting.

GAME OVER

I am now convinced that if you are putting more reserve Infantry Armies, let's say between 5 and 10, this situation won't happen. It will be a desperate fight for 1942 but a fight to hold and to win in 1943.






This, IMHO, is the real problem. The Axis can in 1942 destroy Russian Units faster than the Russian player can replace them. Not sure what the solution is for this. But I do know that historically:

1. The Axis didn't fully recover from the effects of the 41/42 Winter until mid to late June 42. In the game they are usually good to go by late April or early May. Those 6 weeks (3 turns) can make a big difference.
2. After the initial battles the Russians didn't try and hold the line until they got to the Volga. They just retreated every turn so that the Axis couldn't come to grips with them.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 82
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 5:19:34 PM   
generalfdog

 

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/18/2020
Status: offline 		I agree guys in the poll that started this tread almost everyone said axis to strong and I would bet most of them meant Russia is to weak, but as far as I can tell Russia is not actually being strengthened actually Germany is with it sounds like better air and more manpower sounds like Germany is being slowed but personally I don't agree with that either to me 41 is not the Issue its already hard enough for Germany to get to historical 41 achievements. For me I'm less worried about exact historical numbers and more worried about "feel" for me summer and fall 41 feels right, to me winter and 42 doesn't. To me slowing down rail repair is wrong because Germany needs to move fast and once Russia is on the offensive so do they. I think adding more winter bonuses for Russia or handicaps for Germany could make winters more devastating for Germany without throwing them off to much for summer offensive ability, and then starting once reserves run out Russia is just low on production, I think they should get big production bonuses for holding, their key cities of Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad, and a bigger one if they hold all 3, the good thing about something like that is it would help stop a kinda phony German strategy of just going on the defense after 41 without actually accomplishing much and it would make up for the German production increase of the last patch. Twice Russia has been hammered by these patches once with the experience decrease and again with German production increase. Everyone voted Russia needs a bump can we please have it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 83
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 6:25:18 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

This assumes that the Russians had an Army in every hex of the line. I don't think this was the case by this time in the Caucuses.


In this game, if you don't have a line, the armored / mechanized corps are going through. And since your infantry sucks, you can't counterattack. Finally, you are encircled and destroyed.

This is the game and how it plays. So this is far better to have infantry everywhere to form a line. Infantry 1939 or Infantry 1941, this won't change anything to your encirclement and your annihilation.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 84
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 6:29:34 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

This, IMHO, is the real problem. The Axis can in 1942 destroy Russian Units faster than the Russian player can replace them. Not sure what the solution is for this. But I do know that historically:

1. The Axis didn't fully recover from the effects of the 41/42 Winter until mid to late June 42. In the game they are usually good to go by late April or early May. Those 6 weeks (3 turns) can make a big difference.


--> Maybe the rail repair rate will slow them down. Maybe not. We will see.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

2. After the initial battles the Russians didn't try and hold the line until they got to the Volga. They just retreated every turn so that the Axis couldn't come to grips with them.


--> I did not try to hold. I am just retreating each turn since end of April 1942. And also, new Garrison mode, to improve defense, is not to be used by Russian at any costs, lessons learned. This is just helping the Germans with their encirclement.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 85
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 6:41:02 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: generalfdog

I think adding more winter bonuses for Russia or handicaps for Germany could make winters more devastating for Germany without throwing them off to much for summer offensive ability.


Yes, blizzard reduces efficiency by 20%, that's not a big deal imo. I don't remember ever having been concerned about the blizzard playing the Germans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: generalfdog

Everyone voted Russia needs a bump can we please have it.


+10000 - I would love to hear that the Russians are too strong in the next patch.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 11/28/2021 6:45:22 PM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to generalfdog)
Post #: 86
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 7:20:45 PM   
Nirosi

 

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
Status: offline 		Winter is not so bad I agree, but blizzard affects by -20 every turn if I understand correctly (so -20 + whatever you would get for recovery). I believe many Soviets do not attack enough in Winter. Of coure, by itself it was not enough to compensate the imbalance, so the new changes will make a much bigger difference.

Still many Soviets do not realize that even 1vs1 attacks with low number of steps is not that bad. I have often seen results with the Soviet (1 stack vs 1 stack) such as 0-1 and even 0-0. Not only this helps National XP but also keeps German at low readiness. I used this technique (massive small attacks) only once (to try it since Alvaro hinted at it) against either Sveint or Stjeand (not 100% sure) and IIRC he did mention that his troops were not as ready as he expected them to be in Spring, while the Soviets were close to normal % since they recover normally.

As I said , by itself it was not enough, but I think, now with the new changes, that it is also the Soviet player role to make the winter be hard for the Germans.


(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 87
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 7:52:23 PM   
michaelCLARADY

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 12/2/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

The Russians have a lot of reserve units.


According to this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_armies

Around 40 armies were formed from June 1941 to December 1941.

There are 25 Reserve Unit i.e. 25 armies in the Deployment queue at the start of Europe 1939 scenario........................



How many of those armies were composed of utterly untrained men grabbed off a city street or rural farm and given one rifle for every two men?

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 88
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 9:06:28 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

Winter is not so bad I agree, but blizzard affects by -20 every turn if I understand correctly (so -20 + whatever you would get for recovery).


This is not -20 every turn. This is just a reduction of the recovery by 20%.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Nirosi)
Post #: 89
RE: Game Balance - 11/28/2021 9:09:07 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelCLARADY

How many of those armies were composed of utterly untrained men grabbed off a city street or rural farm and given one rifle for every two men?


I don't know, all of them perhaps. Is it not why they are all coming with Assault 1939 in this game?
At the end, these guys are finishing in Berlin according to my books.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to michaelCLARADY)
Post #: 90
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