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RE: AKE ships - 4/27/2011 3:10:12 PM   
foliveti


Posts: 371
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Buffalo, NY
Status: offline 		I am not sure that the supply loaded restriction applies to AVD, AV & AVP.  In fact, it does not appear as if any supply is being used by aircraft supported by such ships.

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Post #: 31
RE: AKE ships - 4/27/2011 3:12:44 PM   
USSAmerica


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quote:

ORIGINAL: foliveti

I am not sure that the supply loaded restriction applies to AVD, AV & AVP.  In fact, it does not appear as if any supply is being used by aircraft supported by such ships.


Good catch, Frank. AV support for float planes will work either with supply loaded on the ship, or with supply present at the base.

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Post #: 32
RE: AKE ships - 4/27/2011 3:17:37 PM   
foliveti


Posts: 371
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Buffalo, NY
Status: offline 		Actually, I am using the c version of the beta and it is not drawing supplies from the port either. I am not sure what is going on with it.  I was quite surprised.  I am flying Patrol aircraft out of some of the advance island bases early in the war.  I am not sure that this is working as designed. I posted a few comments before and someone indicated it was functioning the same way as a carrier.

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Post #: 33
RE: AKE ships - 4/28/2011 3:30:32 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline 		This subject had me thinking about reloads for ships, specifically the BBs. According to the manual on page 212 "For guns (Naval, DP, flak), double the effect (as load cost does not reflect the size of ammo)" is what defines the rearm cost of a specific weapon and, thus, the sum of the weapons and the current ammo level of a specific ship, a ship. So, for example, a Fuso class BB in 12/41 has the following:

12 guns of 14in/45 41YT Gun with an effect of 1,485
14 guns of 6in/50 41YT Gun with an effect of 100
8 guns of 12.7cm/40 T89 AA with an effect of 51
16 gusn of 25mm T96 AA Gun with an effect of 54

Does this ship have a rearm level of the sum of its weapon's effect by type, 1,690 in this example? Or, does it have the sum of its guns times effect, 20,492?

This begs another question: If the latter is true, does a port rearm over several turns? I don't think so, I am thinking that size does indeed matter in this case. The size of the port is the ability of it to handle the massive shells for the big guns.

In this example, the Fuso class BBs would be able to rearm at a Port size of 7 or more without assistance. A size 6 port would need a AKE with a cargo capacity greater than 1690 or sufficient Naval Support (198 in this case) to reach the needed level to rearm.

Have I got this all right? Or, am I barking up the wrong tree?



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Post #: 34
RE: AKE ships - 4/28/2011 4:31:06 PM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

... So, for example, a Fuso class BB in 12/41 has the following:

12 guns of 14in/45 41YT Gun with an effect of 1,485
14 guns of 6in/50 41YT Gun with an effect of 100
8 guns of 12.7cm/40 T89 AA with an effect of 51
16 gusn of 25mm T96 AA Gun with an effect of 54

Does this ship have a rearm level of the sum of its weapon's effect by type, 1,690 in this example? Or, does it have the sum of its guns times effect, 20,492?


1485. The size of the ammo to the capacity indicates the ability of the ship to carry ANY of that type of ammo. This relates to hatch size, crane capacity, etc.



quote:


This begs another question: If the latter is true, does a port rearm over several turns?


It may take a ship (or TF) mulitple turns to rearm. This would probably be due to ops limits, or (rarely) insufficient supply on one turn with more arriving by the next turn. AI will auto-rearm over multiple days. I think a human player must order the TF to rearm again on the subsequent days.



quote:


In this example, the Fuso class BBs would be able to rearm at a Port size of 7 or more without assistance. A size 6 port would need a AKE with a cargo capacity greater than 1690 or sufficient Naval Support (198 in this case) to reach the needed level to rearm.

Have I got this all right? Or, am I barking up the wrong tree?


I think that is correct (have not checked the math). Basically the size of the port, increased by naval support OR ammo ships/tenders with sufficient capacity must be available. It must be one or the other, you can not add a small AKE to a small port and handle ammo greater than either of their capacities.

(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 35
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 3:57:56 PM   
Mudmag99

 

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Joined: 7/25/2006
Status: offline 		Does the AKE need to anchored at port or can they just unload their cargo and head back to their port of origin?

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Post #: 36
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 4:02:49 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mudmag99

Does the AKE need to anchored at port or can they just unload their cargo and head back to their port of origin?


What function do you want them to do?
If they are just hauling cargo, dump the load.
If you actually want to use their AKE function and rearm ships, then just disband them in port loaded with supplies.

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Post #: 37
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 4:17:45 PM   
Mudmag99

 

Posts: 46
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Status: offline 		Aha! That's what I needed to know, thanks!!!!

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Post #: 38
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 4:24:04 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I suggest that you read this:

Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2920431

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Post #: 39
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 5:17:36 PM   
Sardaukar


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Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).

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Post #: 40
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 5:43:00 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


Underway replenishment for ammo for the Allies starts on 1 January 1945, if I recall correctly . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 41
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 5:54:01 PM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/Israel
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


Underway replenishment for ammo for the Allies starts on 1 January 1945, if I recall correctly . . .


You recall correctly. And only for lighter shells.

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Post #: 42
RE: AKE ships - 12/1/2021 11:54:17 PM   
Ian R

 

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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


I mentioned that recently here, and was admonished for saying so, because the larger AEs have enough capacity to move anything up to a 16" shell (in port).



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Post #: 43
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 1:00:55 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


I mentioned that recently here, and was admonished for saying so, because the larger AEs have enough capacity to move anything up to a 16" shell (in port).


That is probably because someone did not understand the concept . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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Post #: 44
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 12:42:42 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I don't have an example to be able to post because the saved games of my last played scenario have been overwritten, but in 45'46 when the Allies were standing offshore of the Home Islands with full mobile support in the form of the following:


Replenishment TF consisting of AO's

Replenishment TF consisting of AE's (every one in the game)

Replenishment TF consisting of Replenishment CVE's

I was able to stay on station a few hexes off the coast for two-three weeks before having to return to port.

During this time, the Death Star was pummeling everything in range with aerial attacks and multiple Cruiser and Battleship TFs were making bombardment runs, day in and day out.

The bombardment runs would start in the hex with the DS and Replenishment TFs, make their run in with a Home Port chosen in a direction that would lead then back toward the Replenishment hex. On the turn after the run in, I would redirect them back to the Replenishment hex where, each and every time, every last ships, including BB's, were rearmed for another run.

I only had to stand down when the AEs became depleted.

My current game is in June '43 so I can't quickly run a test to prove what I outlined above.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 12/2/2021 12:43:30 PM >

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Post #: 45
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 1:45:07 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		*sigh*

Alfred where art thou. Sadly relegated to being the AE version of the sleeping hero motif, it now seems.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


I mentioned that recently here, and was admonished for saying so, because the larger AEs have enough capacity to move anything up to a 16" shell (in port).




Rightly so.

The "5 inch and under" thing with underway replenishment is an AE myth. There was an issue with AE's, since patched out.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4332116


< Message edited by mind_messing -- 12/2/2021 1:49:20 PM >

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 46
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 2:03:18 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

*sigh*

Alfred where art thou. Sadly relegated to being the AE version of the sleeping hero motif, it now seems.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


I mentioned that recently here, and was admonished for saying so, because the larger AEs have enough capacity to move anything up to a 16" shell (in port).




Rightly so.

The "5 inch and under" thing with underway replenishment is an AE myth. There was an issue with AE's, since patched out.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4332116



This is interesting.

Would need to test this myself, maybe Downfall scenario.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 47
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 2:39:42 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

*sigh*

Alfred where art thou. Sadly relegated to being the AE version of the sleeping hero motif, it now seems.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


I mentioned that recently here, and was admonished for saying so, because the larger AEs have enough capacity to move anything up to a 16" shell (in port).




Rightly so.

The "5 inch and under" thing with underway replenishment is an AE myth. There was an issue with AE's, since patched out.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4332116



This is interesting.

Would need to test this myself, maybe Downfall scenario.


See the link within the thread I referred you to.

Bullwinkle did this in 2016 pretty extensively. Come 2017 and michaelm taking a look, the problem was resolved.

Also, see patch notes for 1126a in 2016.



(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 48
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 3:11:17 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

*sigh*

Alfred where art thou. Sadly relegated to being the AE version of the sleeping hero motif, it now seems.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Basically even AE ships are useful only in port for heavier shells.

At sea, they can only replenish your AAA up to 5" shells (which is of course useful).


I mentioned that recently here, and was admonished for saying so, because the larger AEs have enough capacity to move anything up to a 16" shell (in port).




Rightly so.

The "5 inch and under" thing with underway replenishment is an AE myth. There was an issue with AE's, since patched out.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4332116



This is interesting.

Would need to test this myself, maybe Downfall scenario.


See the link within the thread I referred you to.

Bullwinkle did this in 2016 pretty extensively. Come 2017 and michaelm taking a look, the problem was resolved.

Also, see patch notes for 1126a in 2016.


As far as Alfred goes . . .
(Just in jest!)




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 49
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 6:13:06 PM   
Treetop64


Posts: 926
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: 519 Redwood City - BASE (Hex 218, 70)
Status: offline 		Here's everything you need to know about AKEs and other support and auxiliary ships:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 50
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 8:53:41 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

Here's everything you need to know about AKEs and other support and auxiliary ships:


The link to the ship guide that I posted says it all . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Treetop64)
Post #: 51
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 10:42:33 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
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Bullwinkle posted his test results on "6/9/2016". I understand that to be a reference to 9 June 2016.

The patch issued on 10 July 2016 (actually posted on 25 August 2016) V1.01.26– (Game version shown as 1.8.11.26a) includes the reference: "55. Fix underway replenishment not working if total rearm cost too big".

Ergo, whatever it's doing now is WAD (or as close as it will ever get to WAD).



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Post #: 52
RE: AKE ships - 12/2/2021 11:30:16 PM   
Treetop64


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From: 519 Redwood City - BASE (Hex 218, 70)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

Here's everything you need to know about AKEs and other support and auxiliary ships:


The link to the ship guide that I posted says it all . . .


I apologize. I didn't read every reply and didn't know it was already posted.

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Post #: 53
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