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RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11

 
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RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/10/2021 10:50:15 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		Well if all of the > 100mm guns (which i counted as 67, can be wrong) were able to disrupt ~100 men...
I think my first PvP game will end pretty quickly.
I am not asking for .06 arty power, but for a balance.

< Message edited by Stamb -- 12/10/2021 10:51:13 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 31
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 12:19:47 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		With all due respect, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by balance in this case.

Posting one plausible battle result and then asking for a change to the combat system is not really overwhelming evidence of an issue. Keep in mind that we're also testing and playing and have seen many battles across many turns with this update. We're currently happy with the balance. Artillery is still stronger than it was before the 1.02.06 changes and the balance should be good for both sides. Campaign results across many turns will really tell us whether we're right on that. There is far too much that goes into any one battle in this system to draw too many conclusions without a much larger base of information.

I'd personally like to see everyone set aside the tendency to jump to conclusions and give this update a very good and extended try.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 32
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 3:18:24 AM   
DeletedUser44

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline 		Concur with Joel.

Just on review of number of elements ( 15676 vs 7552 ) puts it right at that 2-to-1 edge. So close that a leadership roll could easily bump this attack either way.

In fact, if you look at Attacker Combat Value ( 58 => 29 ), i think it is safe to say a roll failed somewhere.

When you compare the initial CVs ( 58 vs 51 ), it was going to require some favorable RND rolls to pull it off.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 33
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 4:58:16 AM   
cameron88

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/14/2020
Status: offline 		It's not at all a 2 : 1 edge lol... It's a German motorized division vs a Soviet rifle brigade.. in 1941. It's ( 15676 vs 7552 ) and more importantly, 80 EXP/Morale vs what, 50.. max? So it's essentially 4 : 1 when you consider experience/morale, which means there's something wrong if that unit is consistently holding in testing.

(in reply to DeletedUser44)
Post #: 34
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 6:02:04 AM   
Gam3r

 

Posts: 143
Joined: 3/2/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cameron88

It's a German motorized division vs a Soviet rifle brigade.. in 1941.


You miss the Tank Bde and the fact that it is a Jul 1942

(in reply to cameron88)
Post #: 35
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 8:31:08 AM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		Yep that's 1942, but first hasty attack with another motorized division failed horribly.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

With all due respect, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by balance in this case.

Posting one plausible battle result and then asking for a change to the combat system is not really overwhelming evidence of an issue. Keep in mind that we're also testing and playing and have seen many battles across many turns with this update. We're currently happy with the balance. Artillery is still stronger than it was before the 1.02.06 changes and the balance should be good for both sides. Campaign results across many turns will really tell us whether we're right on that. There is far too much that goes into any one battle in this system to draw too many conclusions without a much larger base of information.

I'd personally like to see everyone set aside the tendency to jump to conclusions and give this update a very good and extended try.

Regards,

- Erik



Of course i will continue to play and this is not my first battle, i don't want to make 30 posts about each battle. This is just what is happening after latest patch. I can understand that this new results might be wanted, and from my side i wanted to share some of them. Like Post #: 16. I have the same results of SIG 33 being almost useless.

I am not fan of any side (Axis or Soviets) but for me current artillery changes looks like over reaction to one topic on a forum where {country-name} has no playability now.
Hopefully there is no need to replace {country-name} with an Axis.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 36
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 8:55:58 AM   
DeletedUser44

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Yep that's 1942, but first hasty attack with another motorized division failed horribly.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

With all due respect, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by balance in this case.

Posting one plausible battle result and then asking for a change to the combat system is not really overwhelming evidence of an issue. Keep in mind that we're also testing and playing and have seen many battles across many turns with this update. We're currently happy with the balance. Artillery is still stronger than it was before the 1.02.06 changes and the balance should be good for both sides. Campaign results across many turns will really tell us whether we're right on that. There is far too much that goes into any one battle in this system to draw too many conclusions without a much larger base of information.

I'd personally like to see everyone set aside the tendency to jump to conclusions and give this update a very good and extended try.

Regards,

- Erik



Of course i will continue to play and this is not my first battle, i don't want to make 30 posts about each battle. This is just what is happening after latest patch. I can understand that this new results might be wanted, and from my side i wanted to share some of them. Like Post #: 16. I have the same results of SIG 33 being almost useless.

I am not fan of any side (Axis or Soviets) but for me current artillery changes looks like over reaction to one topic on a forum where {country-name} has no playability now.
Hopefully there is no need to replace {country-name} with an Axis.



You may be correct. I hope you have more examples to share in the near future.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 37
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 12:30:43 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cameron88
It's not at all a 2 : 1 edge lol... It's a German motorized division vs a Soviet rifle brigade.. in 1941. It's ( 15676 vs 7552 ) and more importantly, 80 EXP/Morale vs what, 50.. max? So it's essentially 4 : 1 when you consider experience/morale, which means there's something wrong if that unit is consistently holding in testing.


I think you may have tuned out all the reasons for it to hold and only presented those in favor if it retreating. Also, one battle result does not consistency make.


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to cameron88)
Post #: 38
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 12:39:08 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb
I am not fan of any side (Axis or Soviets) but for me current artillery changes looks like over reaction to one topic on a forum where {country-name} has no playability now.
Hopefully there is no need to replace {country-name} with an Axis.


Well, I hope so too and I also hope that players who prefer to play the Axis side do not overreact and make claims like that without good evidence. If you look at the last official update and then where we ended up across all the betas (which are a process of experimentation and testing) since the last official update, the net result is that artillery is stronger and combat down to the minute level is working better and results at the top level are also improved (compared to the betas).

We expect we can make more improvements over time and will do so. As Joel has explained, they have to be made carefully and with testing. In fact, I think given some of the negative reaction on the previous public betas, we need to be more careful than before as many folks don't really seem to see the betas as experimental.

In a game of this scope though, with all the variables involved, what you should be doing when you see a plausible battle like that which goes against you is writing a good historical story in your head about Vatutin's remarkable defense where he barely held on instead of looking for immediate balance changes.

I've played many battles with this update and will play many more and we will be reading feedback and AARs. Our only interest is in making sure from top to bottom that things are working as well and historically as possible, but we won't and can't jump every time someone questions a battle result, especially a plausible one.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 39
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 2:07:51 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I am to start a game as Soviet with the latest patch - not sure if I've time for AAR'ing that though but will see!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 40
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 2:14:58 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Good points Erik. Not to belittle anyone it takes many many hours (200-500 hours in some cases, based on my latest Steam numbers) of practice to get a “feel” of how things might work out, but there us also the random element. That being said, things play out differently in 41, 42, 43 and 44 and it takes seeing results many times over to see if the patterns you see and experience are issues or not. I don’t think the blanket knee jerk reactions are helpful. There are quite a few testers that testing things and sometimes you may have to run 15-30 tests for verification. That does not mean things may have been missed but I have seen the game is unplayable or broken 4 or 5 times now and it’s actually not, in my opinion and experience.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 41
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 2:50:13 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Since the development team released the Steam version early for testing I have logged in 399.7 hours to date, lol

don't tell anyone lol

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 42
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/11/2021 3:49:08 PM   
Tailspintommy


Posts: 43
Joined: 11/12/2021
From: Lincolnshire. UK.
Status: offline 		I just want to say a huge "Thank You" to Erik and everyone else involved with the continued work to add extra depth and realism to this game.

Having only just started playing it, I'm certainly no expert but from a real life history aspect, I'm not a novice, so the map, units, equipment, events and structure are all familiar.

I added the new patch last night (UK) and have just completed a run through of the "Velikie Luki" scenario, played as Axis on normal difficulty with full fog of war and no ai- air assist.. After the first four turns, the playing area was locked in under blizzard conditions for the rest of the game so this obviously had a large effect.. The end result was a draw but the game was enjoyable.

For what it's worth, my take on things is simply that I didn't buy this game because it's basic or easy. The more deep and complex it can be made, within a realistic structure the better. (As close as possible to WitP.AE would be perfect). Picking a unit and throwing it into battle without taking account of things like leadership and terrain is likely to prove costly, even with a huge advantage. When battles become more even, every advantage you can get will make a difference.

Bottom line is that there will always be some players who want things to stay the same as the original WitE because that's what they're used to....but with more "stuff" bolted on... Some people will just want an overall easier game, without having to think too much about the strategy. Maybe this is the wrong game for them but they can always let the ai run things while they sit and watch.
Maybe some changes will need a rethink in time but let's keep trying to tweak things another notch closer to perfection rather than settle into a comfort zone of an average game.
You'll never please everyone, no matter what you do so stick with the great work you're doing and the effort it must involve. Some of us appreciate it 100%

_____________________________

"Never fire a shot before coffee"

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 43
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 9:43:08 AM   
Krupinski


Posts: 365
Joined: 8/28/2010
Status: offline 		I switched to the steam version. The patch.exe doesnt work. Is it possible to update anyway?

Cheers
Krupinski

(in reply to Tailspintommy)
Post #: 44
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 11:22:48 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Steam version is updated via Steam. It's released there with 1.02.11.

(in reply to Krupinski)
Post #: 45
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 12:46:45 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Krupinski
I switched to the steam version. The patch.exe doesnt work. Is it possible to update anyway?


Updates for Steam are automatically handled within Steam. The Steam release is already at the 1.02.11 level. Do not use our update installers to try to update Steam or you may have to reinstall. Those are only to update our non-Steam version. Whenever we issue an update from now on, it will be both here and on Steam.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Krupinski)
Post #: 46
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 1:09:07 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Will that include the 'beta' patches Erik?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 47
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 1:13:20 PM   
jedwardpita

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 1/19/2021
Status: offline 		Erik,
Thanks to the WITE 2 team for all the work that has gone into fine-tuning the game. I plan to buy the game in January after my budget recovers from Christmas (I currently am playing WITP AE). I hope that the game sells have met your expectations and you continue to expand and improve the franchise. For me, the you tube videos (especially Strategy Gaming Dojo) have reignited my interest in the war games.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 48
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 2:48:03 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN
Will that include the 'beta' patches Erik?


Yes, public betas as well, though they typically require an "opt in" through the app properties on Steam.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 49
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 2:48:21 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jedwardpita
Erik,
Thanks to the WITE 2 team for all the work that has gone into fine-tuning the game. I plan to buy the game in January after my budget recovers from Christmas (I currently am playing WITP AE). I hope that the game sells have met your expectations and you continue to expand and improve the franchise. For me, the you tube videos (especially Strategy Gaming Dojo) have reignited my interest in the war games.


Thank you, I'm glad you are enjoying our games!

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to jedwardpita)
Post #: 50
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 5:54:30 PM   
Krupinski


Posts: 365
Joined: 8/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN
Will that include the 'beta' patches Erik?


Yes, public betas as well, though they typically require an "opt in" through the app properties on Steam.


Hi Erik,

sorry for my question, but how do i opt in for the beta? When i open properties/betas there is none to choose from.

Cheers,
Krupinski

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 51
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/12/2021 5:59:24 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		There are no beta versions available at the moment, so maybe that's why it says none? I assume once we have one that goes up on Steam you'll have the ability to select it from the properties as you tried to do.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Krupinski)
Post #: 52
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/14/2021 11:24:07 AM   
vege1

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 8/19/2021
Status: offline 		I know this has been addressed in the thread already, but I just want to be 100% sure (please yes or no answer). So, can I update the game from 1.02.01beta version and continue my from Stalingrad to Berlin campaign (campaign also started with 1.02.01beta)?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 53
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/14/2021 11:58:02 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		yes, I doubt any patch will break an existing game. Some have the effect that you can't open games saved under that patch with an earlier patch but this is usually mentioned clearly.

if you have an existing game you might not get all the changes - stuff that is set when your game starts isn't revised (typically this is map or element related)

_____________________________


(in reply to vege1)
Post #: 54
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/14/2021 11:58:24 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, that will work fine. You won't get the data/scenario changes, but everything else will apply.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to vege1)
Post #: 55
RE: War In the East 2 New Patch v1.02.11 - 12/14/2021 6:25:56 PM   
vege1

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 8/19/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

yes, I doubt any patch will break an existing game. Some have the effect that you can't open games saved under that patch with an earlier patch but this is usually mentioned clearly.

if you have an existing game you might not get all the changes - stuff that is set when your game starts isn't revised (typically this is map or element related)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes, that will work fine. You won't get the data/scenario changes, but everything else will apply.


Thank you for the fast responses, I will update the game :)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 56
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