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TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 2:39:35 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I am still trying to recover from watching my Chiefs play an unbelievable game against a magnificent Josh Allen and his Buffalo Bills. One of the best and most stressful games of football I have watched.

Go CHIEFS! BANZAI!!

The other three games were all good and came down to the final play in each. Well done to the Final Four Teams going to the Championship Round.


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RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 2:57:40 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I am still trying to recover from watching my Chiefs play an unbelievable game against a magnificent Josh Allen and his Buffalo Bills. One of the best and most stressful games of football I have watched.

Go CHIEFS! BANZAI!!

The other three games were all good and came down to the final play in each. Well done to the Final Four Teams going to the Championship Round.



Who cares?

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Post #: 2
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 4:35:00 PM   
MBF

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/25/2008
Status: offline 		This probably belongs in the general forum (where I know many fear to tread) - since it has nothing to do with WITP:AE :-)

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Post #: 3
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 6:41:58 PM   
Mark VII


Posts: 1838
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Brentwood,TN
Status: offline 		I'm ok with this being here, it helps us to get to know our fellow WitPae Mates. My team the Titans, lost on a last second field goal. Have no idea how they lost that game. My wife and I watched your Bills/Chiefs game not really caring who won, just a close game. Oh boy, that was insane. Congrats

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Post #: 4
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 7:10:58 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		The Chefs are a foosball team?

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Post #: 5
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 9:12:22 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I am still trying to recover from watching my Chiefs play an unbelievable game against a magnificent Josh Allen and his Buffalo Bills. One of the best and most stressful games of football I have watched.

Go CHIEFS! BANZAI!!

The other three games were all good and came down to the final play in each. Well done to the Final Four Teams going to the Championship Round.



Who cares?


Over the years, there have been a good amount of OT threads relating to all sorts of things. I concur that it provides a chance for us to get to know our fellow members in a slightly different manner.



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Post #: 6
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 9:15:14 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		OK. Members of the Forum: Who are YOUR teams that you root for? College, Baseball, Football??? All are welcome!

I grew up in Kansas and Missouri so my loyalties have been with the Royals and Chiefs for about 40 years. Not a huge college football fan but do pay attention to Mother's home town of Manhattan, KS (The LITTLE Apple!) Kansas State Wildcats.


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RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 9:15:52 PM   
MBF

 

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Status: offline 		again - better placed on the General Forums :-)

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Post #: 8
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 9:19:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MBF

again - better placed on the General Forums :-)


So? If you want to, you can start one there as well.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 1/26/2022 5:44:22 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/24/2022 9:21:15 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I am still trying to recover from watching my Chiefs play an unbelievable game against a magnificent Josh Allen and his Buffalo Bills. One of the best and most stressful games of football I have watched.

Go CHIEFS! BANZAI!!

The other three games were all good and came down to the final play in each. Well done to the Final Four Teams going to the Championship Round.



Who cares?


Over the years, there have been a good amount of OT threads relating to all sorts of things. I concur that it provides a chance for us to get to know our fellow members in a slightly different manner.


But you still did not answer my question, so I will repeat it . . .

Who cares?

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Post #: 10
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/25/2022 3:50:26 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		....probably a good chunk of the nation.

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Post #: 11
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/25/2022 6:03:37 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
OK. Members of the Forum: Who are YOUR teams that you root for? College, Baseball, Football??? All are welcome!


I have been an exchange student at SUNY Buffalo in a former life, so my sympathies go to the Bills - and the Sabres. But the team I rooted most for in these days was UB's Women's Soccer Team.

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Post #: 12
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/25/2022 1:46:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

....probably a good chunk of the nation.


Well now, that is an answer to the question.

When the NFL and teams allowed their players to take a knee during their work time, I totally lost interest in watching . . .




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 1/26/2022 5:45:14 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/26/2022 12:53:50 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline 		RangerJoe, if the topic of football doesn't interest you, you are always welcome to make a topic about a subject that does interest you.

Between "Who cares" and trying to take the topic off in a political direction, you are hitting very close to the forums rules on trolling and divisive issues which I will remind you are:

1) No Trolling. Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the message board. Trolling could be directed towards one user or a group of users. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion; it only encourages personal attacks and will not be tolerated.

2) No discussion of divisive current political or religious differences in order to keep this forum focused on our common interest in strategy games.

If someone wants to have an OT social thread on football, they are more than welcome to have that thread. It is not an issue to want to get to know people of a specific community (Which is often what a particular game section becomes) as long as the forums aren't flooded with such topics to the determent of the forums intent. If such a thing occurs, we will of course reserve the right to move such topics to General Discussion as needed.

Regards,
Edmon


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RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/26/2022 5:59:29 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

RangerJoe, if the topic of football doesn't interest you, you are always welcome to make a topic about a subject that does interest you.

Between "Who cares" and trying to take the topic off in a political direction, you are hitting very close to the forums rules on trolling and divisive issues which I will remind you are:

1) No Trolling. Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the message board. Trolling could be directed towards one user or a group of users. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion; it only encourages personal attacks and will not be tolerated.

2) No discussion of divisive current political or religious differences in order to keep this forum focused on our common interest in strategy games.

If someone wants to have an OT social thread on football, they are more than welcome to have that thread. It is not an issue to want to get to know people of a specific community (Which is often what a particular game section becomes) as long as the forums aren't flooded with such topics to the determent of the forums intent. If such a thing occurs, we will of course reserve the right to move such topics to General Discussion as needed.

Regards,
Edmon


It was and is a serious question. I just wanted to know which WITP:AE players care about US football. I used to watch football and cheer for a certain team, now it is just passing interest. I have not watched a professional US football game in years. Nor professional Canadian football either. Some people get very serious and maybe too serious about this, especially when it leads to violence against fans from other teams.

Apparently MBF does not want to know what other WITP:AE players are interested in US football. There is already a thread about football on the General forum but that is for a different game entirely.

In one job that I had for a certain organization, I learned that the mission comes first and all other things were second. Yes, sometimes the other things were taken care of so there would be no distractions for the mission. So I don't think that what I posted was political but rather too many people tend to think "Now that I am here, what else is in it for me?"

If you want to know more, we can continue this discussion . . .





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 1/26/2022 6:00:58 PM >

_____________________________

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“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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Post #: 15
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/26/2022 6:30:42 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		Forbes lists the Dallas Cowboys as significantly more valuable than the nearest football (soccer) franchises--Barcelona and Real Madrid--and eleven of the top 25 most valuable franchises around the globe are NFL. I think that answers the question of whether the sport has a large fan base.

As entertainment, the quality of the NFL games this past weekend were exceptional, even though my teams lost. I love playing, coaching and refereeing football (soccer) and watching rugby, cricket and baseball, but for pure excitement in the last seconds of a game, a hallmark of the sport week in and week out, it is hard to beat the NFL.

I look past the politics of athletes and entertainers. I think they are unwise to risk alienating parts of their fan base and potentially risk reducing their earning potential, but it is their choice.


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Post #: 16
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/26/2022 6:42:05 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
It was and is a serious question. I just wanted to know which WITP:AE players care about US football.

<snip>

So I don't think that what I posted was political but rather too many people tend to think "Now that I am here, what else is in it for me?"


Here's the key quote from you which was on a politicized subject and with the image that followed it brought politics into the thread:

"When the NFL and teams allowed their players to take a knee during their work time, I totally lost interest in watching . . ."

Repeating "Who Cares?" is also not an attempt to further the discussion, it's trying to stop it. Would have been fine if you let it go at that, but several posts later you insisted and when you got your answer, brought politics into it.

Now your latest response to Edmon with the image you added amounts to trolling a mod instead of accepting the warning and that you brought politics to the thread. As you have already had a couple of recent warning and bans and now another warning which you've ignored, that means the next step is now a one month ban. Please take the time to reconsider the forum rules, they apply to all who post here including you. I'll be in contact in a month's time.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 1/26/2022 6:50:16 PM >

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RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/27/2022 5:14:05 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		A the NFL. I am going to watch the the superbowl aith a mate although it will be the middle of the night.

Since I am from Europe I thought this thread would be about soccer..... my club is FC Twente, have season tickets (and go there with my son who is 10 years old)



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Post #: 18
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/27/2022 11:56:49 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		My biggest issue is with the players insane salaries. In the 1950s-1970s most barley made any money or at least not like how they do today. What gets me is a mid 20 year gets a 5 year contract for 100 million. Most mid 20s in my field would start off with 50k. If we offered them what the CEO makes it would be just as bad as pro football.

My wife and I do watch college football the salary for players is not there but sadly for the coaches to win it is.

…

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RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/28/2022 1:17:11 PM   
Edmon

 

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Joined: 9/16/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

My biggest issue is with the players insane salaries. In the 1950s-1970s most barley made any money or at least not like how they do today. What gets me is a mid 20 year gets a 5 year contract for 100 million. Most mid 20s in my field would start off with 50k. If we offered them what the CEO makes it would be just as bad as pro football.

My wife and I do watch college football the salary for players is not there but sadly for the coaches to win it is.

…


This has really bothered me about British football, but also sport in general.

Best player in the world - 26m / year.
100th best - Barely paid enough to eat each day.

The pay scales are so disproportionate that the scene is really unhealthy for anyone who is not one of the worlds best players on one of the worlds best teams. You won't have much of a scene if 99% of the players decide to quit because they could be earning more working at McDonalds and it feels like that might become reality sooner rather than later.

A healthy scene needs level investment at all levels, but it's not been like that for a while now.

N.B. No-one is saying that an average player should be earning 26m / year, but "barely above minimum wage if that unless you make it to the very top" isn't exactly much of an incentive for kids to get into sport.

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RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/28/2022 2:02:25 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		I think reasonable salaries would work, but how to implement that is beyond my pay scale.

No offense to athletes or actors, but having a normal working salary like someone em modest like 200-500k per year would be better. I get not everyone can be an athlete or actor but not everyone can be a doctor or software engineer, but the pay should be fair and reasonable not crazy like 10, 20 or 100 million.

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RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/29/2022 1:28:03 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Well, to that I would say... you and your millions of compatriots should stop watching the sports then, because the money for those salaries comes mostly from advertising dollars at its root (be that sponsorships of the teams or ads on the sports channels, which pay the teams lots of money).

Obviously, that's not feasible. But it's why salaries, especially for the best of the best, are inflated. There is a lot more media money sloshing around in the system now, especially on a per-team basis. It's a very rough measure, but US GDP today is about 4 times as high as it was in 1969, when MLB expanded to 24 teams. MLB is currently 30 teams - to keep pace with the "GDP-per-team" (and therefore, if you assume domestic commerce is roughly the same, available media dollars per team) MLB would need to have almost 100 teams in it. Even if you only go back to 1998 when MLB expanded to 30 teams, the US real GDP has increased by about 50%. That actually is a wild underestimate, as MLB total revenues have slightly more than doubled since 1998 (adjusting for inflation).

I'm fine with the top level salaries. If you're Mike Trout, possibly the best baseball player ever (not my opinion but some folks can make a reasonable argument) and certainly the best all-around player of his generation, you should absolutely be making the big-big bucks. The problem is that the salaries for the talent pipeline are extremely low and the incentives remain predatory and exploitative.

This is mostly the case across all the major sports.

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Post #: 22
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/29/2022 2:56:37 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

My biggest issue is with the players insane salaries. In the 1950s-1970s most barley made any money or at least not like how they do today. What gets me is a mid 20 year gets a 5 year contract for 100 million. Most mid 20s in my field would start off with 50k. If we offered them what the CEO makes it would be just as bad as pro football.

My wife and I do watch college football the salary for players is not there but sadly for the coaches to win it is.

…


This has really bothered me about British football, but also sport in general.

Best player in the world - 26m / year.
100th best - Barely paid enough to eat each day.

The pay scales are so disproportionate that the scene is really unhealthy for anyone who is not one of the worlds best players on one of the worlds best teams. You won't have much of a scene if 99% of the players decide to quit because they could be earning more working at McDonalds and it feels like that might become reality sooner rather than later.

A healthy scene needs level investment at all levels, but it's not been like that for a while now.

N.B. No-one is saying that an average player should be earning 26m / year, but "barely above minimum wage if that unless you make it to the very top" isn't exactly much of an incentive for kids to get into sport.


Your statement emphasised above discloses a fundamental misunderstanding of how sport in most* Commonwealth countries is organised. (*Not sure about Canada.)

First, in the main, most adults participating in organised sports are amateurs. They do so for the exercise, fun and social camaraderie, and often because they are good at it, although not always. They do not do it for money. They may actually pay their club a membership fee to fund it and help it operate. They don't do it to make money. Quite apart from that, I will let one of the UK posters here explain in greater the multi teared English football system, and how it is an inclusive sport that caters to all levels of ability, with those who are very good rising to the very top.

Secondly, I'm going to refrain from responding to your assertion about it being an unhealthy scene, and 99% quitting on payment grounds. I will merely say that as a former amateur rugby club player of many years at club level, not everything is about money, and playing rugby teams from the US over the years, I met a lot of like minded opponents who found it a very healthy and socially beneficial activity.



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Post #: 23
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/29/2022 3:32:08 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		For the States it’s much different, you have baseball, football and hockey (the only sports I played or know about) little leagues and you also have junior and high school sports, but they all cost money of some sort, as a kid in hockey I always got the cheapest used equipment cause that’s all my single mom could afford (I did not care I was able to get on the ice), and this was in the late 70s to early 80s. When my oldest son played baseball little league in the 90s it cost me $140 a year which was a lot to me back then since I was only making $12 an hour and had four kids to feed.

Here in the States for adults as far as I know it’s college kids that never made the big leagues in the amateur sports or those with lots of disposable income. It’s much too expensive for poor kids to get in unless they are the best of the best.

Anyway thanks for an intelligent discussion.

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Post #: 24
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/29/2022 4:20:02 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		I think it is unfortunate that sport is organised in a way that prices people out of even junior participation as you describe, but it is not the way it goes in many countries.

As an example I'll go to a young lad who was playing cricket - in India - at age 18 or so in the late 1990s. Mahendra Singh Dhoni, born 1980, to a struggling but not poor family. Living in Ranchi, India, and playing schoolboy football, he was sent over to the local cricket club by his football coach, where they kitted him out with the necessary second hand gear, and the coach used to slip him 50 rupee every time he hit one out of the park to help with his family's expenses. He was soon selected in a regional team, but, even so, he worked as a ticket collector on the local railway for a couple of years to make ends meet. Eventually he made the state, then Indian national team, and captained it, and is now worth an estimated net US$110m. He's obviously one of the very few who get to the top from a hard start, but many, many more get a similar chance.

Slightly on topic, when he was a kid he wanted to be a paratrooper. He is now the honorary colonel of the Indian territorial army 106th para regiment.

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Post #: 25
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/29/2022 4:40:33 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		I think in the US there is literally thousands of very talented athletes from poor families, my experience has been only a very few lucky and talented ones get a scholarship to a university and only a select few of those go on to professional level and really make it big.

I may be tainted now in my viewpoints buts it’s all about the Benjamins you can generate for the machine.

Music has also gone the same, imo.

< Message edited by Zovs -- 1/29/2022 4:42:00 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/31/2022 7:54:25 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thank You Edmon and Erik. I was totally put off by the tone and decided to leave rather then engage. Greatly appreciate you guys and your work.

For the most part, this is why I rarely get on the Forum these days. Tone has really changed over the last 17-years of time. I know this is why several other old-timers have left or rarely appear anymore though I stay in contact with them.

Am sticking to my Mod work and matches with Lou and Paul and that is about it.

Thank you Guys!

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 1/31/2022 7:57:45 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 1/31/2022 9:32:36 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Thank You Edmon and Erik. I was totally put off by the tone and decided to leave rather then engage. Greatly appreciate you guys and your work.

For the most part, this is why I rarely get on the Forum these days. Tone has really changed over the last 17-years of time. I know this is why several other old-timers have left or rarely appear anymore though I stay in contact with them.

Am sticking to my Mod work and matches with Lou and Paul and that is about it.

Thank you Guys!


I honestly really dislike having to warn anyone, but you know, everyone has hobbies and things they are passionate about. Football is absolutely not my thing, but if I'd written a post about something I cared about just to try and make some friends and someone was chanting "Who Cares?"... I'd upset about it even if I wouldn't say anything to that affect.

I understand the rules have been, effectively, unenforced for a period of time. Just want to assure everyone that, that is no longer the case and anyone can PM me if they are being trolled and something will be done about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
Your statement emphasised above discloses a fundamental misunderstanding of how sport in most* Commonwealth countries is organised. (*Not sure about Canada.)

First, in the main, most adults participating in organised sports are amateurs. They do so for the exercise, fun and social camaraderie, and often because they are good at it, although not always. They do not do it for money. They may actually pay their club a membership fee to fund it and help it operate. They don't do it to make money. Quite apart from that, I will let one of the UK posters here explain in greater the multi teared English football system, and how it is an inclusive sport that caters to all levels of ability, with those who are very good rising to the very top.

Secondly, I'm going to refrain from responding to your assertion about it being an unhealthy scene, and 99% quitting on payment grounds. I will merely say that as a former amateur rugby club player of many years at club level, not everything is about money, and playing rugby teams from the US over the years, I met a lot of like minded opponents who found it a very healthy and socially beneficial activity.

If you want to make a career of football (or anything that is something you are passionate about for that matter), it's got to pay enough to cover things like: Food, Heating, Rent, etc. Things you absolutely cannot exist without. Of course people don't always chase certain careers because of the money, that's as true in the games industry as football, I run a youtube channel and I do it to promote TBS games, not because I want to make money out of it.

But if I wanted to do it full-time, it'd have to pay enough to keep me alive, at the very least. People who made it a career and got near the top saying it worked out great is honestly survivor bias. Lot of kids passionate about sport, work on developing their skills from a young age and when their parents decide to stop supporting them, they suddenly find they can't afford to exist and they haven't developed the skillset to do another career.

I know it's "the way of the world" in many industries but it's just particularly bad in sport.

_____________________________

Slitherine Games - Community Manager - Italian Office

Any questions, concerns or comments about our Community Forums or Games? You are always welcome to drop me a PM.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 28
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 2/1/2022 1:54:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thank You Sir.

Appreciate several PM's that have arrived as well.

I just wanted to have some fun with forum people I know some--but not much--about. Great way to gain insight into our fellow forumites on something different from the game itself.

Have a good day all.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/1/2022 1:55:37 PM >

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 29
RE: TOTALLY OT: Football Weekend! - 2/1/2022 6:33:08 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Thank You Edmon and Erik. I was totally put off by the tone and decided to leave rather then engage. Greatly appreciate you guys and your work.

For the most part, this is why I rarely get on the Forum these days. Tone has really changed over the last 17-years of time. I know this is why several other old-timers have left or rarely appear anymore though I stay in contact with them.

Am sticking to my Mod work and matches with Lou and Paul and that is about it.

Thank you Guys!


Welcome back! Hope all of you guys will come back! This forum is starting to feel like the good old days again!

And Roll Tide!

_____________________________


(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 30
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