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RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 7:54:56 PM

sveint

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Boost Soviet production and manpower by 25% and maybe we start approaching balance.

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 31

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 7:57:21 PM

sveint

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I'm not only playing stjeand (he puts up a good fight). My other games as Axis... it's a walkover.

Honorable mention that France+BEF is really rough for inexperienced Axis players now. Anyone who spams panzers and neglects the air force risk failing to take France in 1940.

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 32

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 8:06:43 PM

redrum68

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A full BEF commitment to France I think can stop most non-expert players and is probably the best strategy for the Allies to win right now.

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 33

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 8:54:41 PM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Honorable mention that France+BEF is really rough for inexperienced Axis players now. Anyone who spams panzers and neglects the air force risk failing to take France in 1940.

Yes, balance is good now for France 1940. No problem with this. The only problem is in Russia.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 34

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 9:10:03 PM

ncc1701e

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What I really don't understand is why USSR is so understrength. In the manual I see a reference to this book: When Titans Clashed. I don't know which version Alvaro has, but in my Revised and Expanded Edition, I can read the following page 82:

From the moment the war began, the War Commissariat began a process that produced new rifle armies in groups or waves over a period of months, which more than compensated for the number of existing armies the Germans destroyed (see Map 5 and Tables C, D, and E in the Appendix). These included fifty-seven Soviet armies formed to compensate for the twenty armies destroyed or disbanded in 1941.

All this in 1941 and 1942, this is summarizing everything. In the game, this is just IMPOSSIBLE.

Put more reserve infantry armies in the deployment queue or increase PP for USSR.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 35

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 9:59:18 PM

Nirosi

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quote:

A full BEF commitment to France I think can stop most non-expert players and is probably the best strategy for the Allies to win right now.

The fact that the UK can still put 11 or so corps in France of which 2 or even 3 can be mobiles is still game breaking. No matter the forces the German has, it will be close to impossible for average players and very hard for most others the moment a single small mistake is made.

(in reply to redrum68)

Post #: 36

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 10:46:09 PM

stjeand

Posts: 1508
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From: Aurora, NC
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It is going to be tough for me...
Last time I ran into Hadros he had 11 corps...I failed to have enough forces for 41 Barbarossa...
I think I lost 4 corps...and casualties were 200+...

I think sveint put that many in as well as the entire UK airforce and I suspect I will lose a few corps if I am able to even get through.

NOW I am sure people will say well you can recover but you won't have adequate forces for Russia...Perhaps that is best?
In my game with Hadros I could not even take Yugoslavia because I took France last weeks of September.
Yugo fell early 41...

I never lost a game doing an all in BEF. The worst I did was kill 1 armor corp, a paratrooper and 2 german large corps. And France fell in late September.
But losing armor is crippling.
NOW keep in mind it is one thing if you are playing KNOWING that there will be an all in so the Germans build a ton of LC and paratroopers and just land in the UK...but normally you do not know...so you do your normal.

How do you fix it?
Nerf the UK? No...

You force the UK to garrison their island with a certain amount of forces or they lose PP.
All ports must have a unit.
London must have a full corps. Multiple southern cities must have a full corps.
Same in Africa...

The French fleet should be stuck in the Med...or Italy joins the Axis early.
NOT that an early Italy would be good for Italy but more air is painful for the Allies.

(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 37

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 10:48:43 PM

stjeand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

quote:

A full BEF commitment to France I think can stop most non-expert players and is probably the best strategy for the Allies to win right now.

The fact that the UK can still put 11 or so corps in France of which 2 or even 3 can be mobiles is still game breaking. No matter the forces the German has, it will be close to impossible for average players and very hard for most others the moment a single small mistake is made.

As the UK once I had 3 armor and 2 mech along with 1 French armor and 6 Infantry corps.

BUT that was pre-good air days. Now not sure what I would do.

In fact against a few inexperienced players I was able to take out the entire german armored army...so all that was left was infantry.

(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 38

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/26/2022 10:50:49 PM

stjeand

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NOW I did notice that a LOT of the Russian manpower centers are forward...so they will be hurting even in a normal Barbarossa...
I found that strange.

In mine I suspect the Russians before the end of the year will be down to less than 20 MP produced. So an army every 2 turns, while Germany gets 120 MP every 6 months so they can build twice what the Russians can.

Perhaps just need to find the perfect Russian builds...

Personally...I have not.

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 39

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/27/2022 1:44:39 AM

sveint

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A large BEF is not a panacea. You're basically conceding the BOA for the time being. You risk getting most of your units destroyed vs a powerful Germany in full supply. Worst case the Axis can completely neglect garrisoning the west and send all their troops east for Barbarossa.

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 40

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/27/2022 2:18:57 AM

stjeand

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Not sure they can not garrison the west unless they defeat the UK forces.
Right now the UK has a massive ground army that would be ripe to invade France in 41 if the Germans could not garrison.
NOW if the UK lose a bunch of those units then yes they could be in trouble.

But that depends what your plan is...

Full on defense to slow the Germans...or all out attack in an attempt to beat them.

We will see. German infantry has reached yours..and as you can see they are equal. They should be 50% stronger so down 30% in strength and August is arriving. 4 or 5 turns left. Will need some luck. This turn was bad...lost 5 out of 6 air battles...

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 41

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/27/2022 1:02:44 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Hadros is quite a good player. He beats me quite handily. He has played more games than I have though by a good measure.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 42

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/27/2022 1:03:12 PM

BrianG

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Overruns are a big issue. After 3/ 4 battles, my Russians are then overrun and lose 22 steps. Multiple times.

I think failing to retreat enough hexes is an issue. Or unit should then be put back into the return que.

Maybe week step units should get overrun. But not ones with hefty values. EVen at bad odds.

And on an aside, Generals really get kia'd in this game!!!

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 43

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 4:47:30 AM

MagicMissile

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I think the best answer to all in UK in France might be to try and kill as much UK units as possible, dont skip the Uboat building and skip 41 barbarossa and concentrate on harassing the UK.

Not sure how that will play out but I think it might work. I guess a bit like the Nirosi Boldairade AAR going on right now. I have never played against 11 UK corps but 8 is manageable.

Also why was the 3 hex retreat path introduced? That is what makes it possible for the UK to stuff France with units. Without it France would be too crowded and there would be shatters left and right I think.

When it comes to Russia I guess we come into the balancing question. In my 4 games with HarryB my Germans failed to finish the Soviets whereas HarryBs Germans stomped my Soviets easily. This with almost identical builds and setup both Germany and Soviet. Since I had never failed to defeat the Soviets before the new rules with improved garrisons there seems to be something I am missing

but skills means a lot.
These games are very hard to balance just look at WitE 1 launched over 10 years ago and I doubt it is balanced even now, also WP a couple of years of patches now and balance still seems off a bit. Also who do you balance for the best players or the average players. Always been a big question if you look at RTS games like Starcraft and Warcraft for example.

Anyway coming back to Russia the feeling is that the Germans are a bit too strong and the Soviets are too weak so I am absolutely for trying to improve the Soviets in some way. And I think not necessarily improve the 1941 Soviets but 1942 onwards they seem to need a buff.

Warplan is still a great game though, I think I would like to play a bit after the next patch.

/MM

(in reply to BrianG)

Post #: 44

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 7:24:18 AM

aoffen

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I personally think NCC1701e is on the right track. The Soviets can hold in 41, but tend to fold in 42. I think they need their wartime pp and manpower buffed a bit. That�s probably enough on top of what�s been done.

In our game set ncc1701e has thrown a lot of resources against the UK but suffered against the Russians in 41 with a less successful Barbarossa (1942 my change that). I did the opposite and have done relatively better in Russia but am not succeeding in pressing the Brits at all. It�s a complex equation and difficult to balance.

The Russians do run out of men though, which seems wrong and is backed up buy his data and research. A pp and manpower buff likely solves it.

(in reply to MagicMissile)

Post #: 45

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 11:20:17 AM

stjeand

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Perhaps the Soviets get units based upon German advance distance? When the Germans take Kiev the Soviets get an army and so on...

AND perhaps these only come into play until a certain date.
SO if the Russians do not lose Kiev in 41 than they do not get the unit.

NOW this could create the Germans skipping places...BUT if they are key rail lines they can not.

Same could happen in 1942 but more so...IF the Russians lose Moscow they mobilize 3 armies...
Something like that.

MM I agree 100% with the experience piece but if HB is the ONLY Russian player than can hold Russia then something is not working.
HB is a fantastic player. I have only gotten to play him a few times so I have not been able to try any new German tactics...all have been prior patch. Not sure it will make a difference but I learned a lot going the distance.

My concern with the game has always been...

Russia is underpowered and the Allies over powered. The Allies should not be invading in 42 all over the place to slow down the Germans...they should be able to pull off and invasion to say Africa but not France or Italy yet...
And Russia should be pushed back but it should be tougher and tougher for the Germans...while it is normally easier.

(in reply to aoffen)

Post #: 46

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 11:59:48 AM

MagicMissile

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I in return agree with the western allies a bit too strong and USSR too weak. I think it has been mentioned before but that seems true about almost all Grand Strategy WW2 games. Maybe a result of the cold war I guess.

Also agree HB is very good. BTW anyone playing him now or has he retired as the basically unbeaten champion? I have not seen him add some wisdom to the forum for some time.

/MM

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 47

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 1:21:41 PM

stjeand

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From: Aurora, NC
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Weather piece...

1) Cold should be worse that it is...winterized not affected...cold should slow movement and attack as well as effect efficiency, especially in Russia. Reading about this it was stated cold was worse that snow. Mud then cold froze tanks, trucks and guns to the ground that they could not free them until Spring.
2) Perhaps May should be rainy in Russia...could alot of the issues be fixed with less attack turns and a change to Cold?
3) Could Cold and Blizzard cause damage to units? Not sure if this is possible but similar damage to say an amphibious landing so rare but taking 5 to 15 hits all along the front could cause issues over the winter for the Axis, especially in 1941 when they were not prepared. Maybe it stops in 42?

< Message edited by stjeand -- 1/28/2022 1:23:37 PM >

(in reply to MagicMissile)

Post #: 48

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 4:07:54 PM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

AND perhaps these only come into play until a certain date.
SO if the Russians do not lose Kiev in 41 than they do not get the unit.

NOW this could create the Germans skipping places...BUT if they are key rail lines they can not.

Yeah like surrounding but not taking London.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 49

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 4:13:24 PM

ncc1701e

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagicMissile

I in return agree with the western allies a bit too strong and USSR too weak. I think it has been mentioned before but that seems true about almost all Grand Strategy WW2 games. Maybe a result of the cold war I guess.

Yeah thanks to people like David M. Glantz, we don't have only the stories of German generals saying that the Wehrmacht has lost only due to Adolf.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagicMissile

Also agree HB is very good. BTW anyone playing him now or has he retired as the basically unbeaten champion? I have not seen him add some wisdom to the forum for some time.

He is all right. He is playing a new game he has received for Christmas named Gloomhaven.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to MagicMissile)

Post #: 50

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 4:32:46 PM

stjeand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
He is all right. He is playing a new game he has received for Christmas named Gloomhaven.

A board game that does not use a computer...

OH the inhumanity.

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 51

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/28/2022 5:07:12 PM

ncc1701e

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Well, I am playing a lot Ticket to Ride - First Journey with my daughters.
https://www.daysofwonder.com/tickettoride/en/first-journey/

This is more peaceful than Warplan.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 52

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/29/2022 3:17:54 AM

MagicMissile

Posts: 1629
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
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Ok thanks for the info good to know. I was a bit worried something might have happened.

When it comes to the weather I always wanted rain and possibly blizzard to be the resting time but fighting in cold and snow should be more possible than it is now. That would of course mean we need probably increase manpower and production maybe but the game would be more fun. i have never been keen on the fact that the action is basically only 5 out of 12 months every year whereas in the real war winter in the east was full of action that is hard to replicate in the game as of now.

/MM

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 53

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/30/2022 12:56:15 AM

AlvaroSousa

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The manpower very slight increase was due to Germany literally running out of manpower in 1944.

Ok so here are some questions for those having trouble.
#1 do you max out lend lease to Russia from the Allies? (very important)
#2 do you have some strategic bombing game in play as the Allies? (this eats up resources and possibly air sups)

These two are very key.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to MagicMissile)

Post #: 54

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/30/2022 1:22:39 AM

AlvaroSousa

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I think the easiest safest solution is to increase their unit and base experience by 5%.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 55

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/30/2022 2:04:29 AM

sveint

Posts: 3556
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From: Glorious Europe
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Yes to both questions.

In a typical game I'm playing right now as the Allies the Axis have not done too well. France was a bit of a struggle and already in the summer of 41 the UK has taken Tripoli. The US has two heavy bombers ready to deploy when they join the war, so that they can immediately contribute too.

But in the east the situation is different. While the Axis has "only" reached roughly historical advances, the Soviet army only numbers just under 2000 strength. I barely have enough units to hold the entire line. I have literally no strategic reserves. Land experience is 39% and air experience is 35% (even though the Soviet air force fought well and is now reduced to nothing - all reinforcements are off on air units). I already know what will happen in 1942. With no reserves and no mobile units the Axis will run rings around the units I do have. And the Soviets will collapse.

Again, this is a typical game. (I have tried many different tactics with the Soviets, nothing matters, players simply don't have the options or tools necessary).

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 56

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/30/2022 2:06:20 AM

sveint

Posts: 3556
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

The manpower very slight increase was due to Germany literally running out of manpower in 1944.

I manage my manpower very carefully and have never had this problem. Indeed since the latest patch I often find my Germans sitting at 99% manpower. And I really like infantry, I buy lots of it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 57

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/30/2022 2:12:42 AM

sveint

Posts: 3556
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From: Glorious Europe
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And many others have mentioned, the problem is 1942.

1941 should be, and is, a catastrophe for the Soviets.
1942 should not be, but is, a catastrophe for the Soviets.

The only reason the Germans advanced as they did in 1942 was because they achieved strategic surprise. They had virtually no chance of taking Moscow in 1942, even though if you look at a map they were not far from it. In WarPlan in 1942 we have the Soviets facing 20-strength elite German units with basic infantry and immobile armor.

< Message edited by sveint -- 1/30/2022 2:17:23 AM >

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 58

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/30/2022 8:47:33 AM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Ok so here are some questions for those having trouble.
#1 do you max out lend lease to Russia from the Allies? (very important)
#2 do you have some strategic bombing game in play as the Allies? (this eats up resources and possibly air sups)

These two are very key.

#1. I am doing well in BoA so I have the max for LL as UK only so far. And I am planning to do the same with USA.

#2. No, I have two strategic bombers with Detection and Electronics doing raids on subs bases but not every turn. USA has one strategic bomber but they are not yet at war.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 59

RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air - 1/30/2022 11:00:19 AM

stjeand

Posts: 1508
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From: Aurora, NC
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I maxed lend least to the Russians...but ran out of manpower. They basically had 42% at the start of the Spring of 42...I could not longer build units. Only received 22 MP per turn...and the Russian units cost 36...

I never build strat bombers...
They cost to much and normally I lose 4 per attack to flak alone...and do not have the resources to keep them repaired...add to that they 20% efficiency per attack if not more and in my testing it takes 2 months to gain that back. So you can use them 3 times then not again for 2 months. Does not really do much.
Perhaps something changed...but I have never seen it effect Germany unless you have 4 to 8 bombers...and if you have that...then you can't fight on the ground.

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 60