Russian status after updates to supply / air (Full Version)

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stjeand -> Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/21/2022 6:29:02 PM)

Wondering what everyone's experience is around Russia now...

As Axis...

I think Russia is easier than before due to air changes.
River crossings are almost trivial with air support.
Supply still goes past Moscow by October of 41.

As Russians...

My tests are abnormal so far.
One test I build mountain troops which are poor defenders and so they did not work and number far to few.
Other test went in 1942.

Not sure what others have seen.

Perhaps too soon to tell.

Thanks




redrum68 -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/21/2022 7:09:51 PM)

I dunno... USSR invading Germany in 1942 seems too strong to me! (and yes this is mostly a joke but from a current game)
[image]local://upfiles/58324/37E045A805814018A4921C68C39096D2.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/21/2022 7:10:35 PM)

Too soon for me to say but it looks a little better.

Is it good enough? I think the Axis are still probably too strong, the extra manpower Germany got is huge.



boldairade -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/21/2022 9:10:20 PM)

What were the changes?



stjeand -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/22/2022 2:15:00 AM)

Rail Repair reduced to 2 hexes rather than 3...to slow down German supply.
And the air changes but that was to make air useful.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/23/2022 10:38:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

Wondering what everyone's experience is around Russia now...
...

Perhaps too soon to tell.


Too soon for me. I am already concerned by the % of overrun units now. Because, if Russian rifle corps are just overrun, it means they can't form half army afterwards. At the end of the day, this is again less rifle armies for Russia.

I was already saying that there were not enough reserve armies... Will see if the rail repair rate is helping to keep up the pace of destruction vs creation.



sveint -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/24/2022 6:24:52 PM)

One serious issue with the latest version is that Germany has far too much manpower. No matter the casualties or builds I always end up back at 99%.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/24/2022 9:30:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

As Axis...

I think Russia is easier than before due to air changes.
River crossings are almost trivial with air support.
Supply still goes past Moscow by October of 41.


You are really a master of Barbarossa not like me. I am really struggling now. I was not very prepared for my attack due to Yugoslavia in 1941. Effectiveness was not that good. But now, Russia is hard. :-)



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/24/2022 9:44:22 PM)

Another thing to note due to the change in the rail repair rate, I am now doing a mobile defense as Russian against my opponent. The problem is that he can't catch up without losing too much effectiveness.
What missing imo is an incentive for the Russian to fight. The incentive for me is not developed enough in the current patch. This is PP.

There are not enough cities to fight for. I would suggest to add more PP in cities like Kiev, Smolensk, Kharkov. If these cities are taken before a certain date, then, no PP transfert to the Oural.
This is a very good thing to oblige Russian player to fight even losing units instead of just withdrawing.



sveint -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/24/2022 11:16:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Another thing to note due to the change in the rail repair rate, I am now doing a mobile defense as Russian against my opponent. The problem is that he can't catch up without losing too much effectiveness.
What missing imo is an incentive for the Russian to fight. The incentive for me is not developed enough in the current patch. This is PP.

There are not enough cities to fight for. I would suggest to add more PP in cities like Kiev, Smolensk, Kharkov. If these cities are taken before a certain date, then, no PP transfert to the Oural.
This is a very good thing to oblige Russian player to fight even losing units instead of just withdrawing.


Wait, you want to make things worse for the Russians?!



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 6:19:24 AM)

I don't know so far. I surely failed my German attack. The rifle corps in garrison mode are super hard in my game. Don't know the secret of my opponent.

Me, as Russian, I can just fallback.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 4:52:50 PM)

Well, I spoke too soon, the Russian fallback strategy is collapsing. [:D]



redrum68 -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 6:41:06 PM)

You pretty much have to fight some as the USSR to gain base ground experience, otherwise, you'll never be able to stop the Axis...



sveint -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 7:19:25 PM)

In stjeand and my game the Germans are at full manpower while the Soviets are running out. The world is upside down.



canuckgamer -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 7:20:20 PM)

We were in to 1940 in our latest PBEM game when patch 1.00.15 was released. We both updated but were disappointed to find out that the change to advancement of converted rail did not change. I asked about it in the forum and was told that it would only take effect in a new game but we decided to continue anyway. I assume that the discussion about the change in air is referring to interdiction. In Russia our experience after the patch is that there were a lot more overruns and so far we have not seen one shattered result for the Allied or Axis anywhere. One comment was it was because retreats are now 3 hexes.
In our first PBEM game the Russians collapsed in 1942 with the Axis taking Moscow and the Caucasus oil fields. This time I limited Russian attacks in the winter to odds of at least 3-1. We'll see how it plays out this time.

I have a couple of suggestions for the Russians which I will repeat. The Siberian reinforcements should automatically have the winterization specialty. After all, they were transferred from Siberia. Russian armour and mech should pay less of a movement penalty in snow and blizzard turns. The wider treads on the Russian tanks made them more mobile than the narrower treads on the German tanks. Maybe these two changes along with the reduced rail advancement will give the Russians a chance.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 8:02:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68

You pretty much have to fight some as the USSR to gain base ground experience, otherwise, you'll never be able to stop the Axis...


You are right. It was a try with the new patch. One miss.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 8:18:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

The Siberian reinforcements should automatically have the winterization specialty. After all, they were transferred from Siberia.


I have tried in the editor. This is not possible in the current game engine. You can't add a specialty to something inside the Deployment queue. I also would like to see this but... just not possible.

Perhaps add more specialty points by an event but again, not possible in the current editor. There is not this option. I have also think about giving a specialty to a given unit. Again, not a possible option for event. A development must be added for this.

No really, only more reserve infantry armies will do it for USSR to stop Germans.

But one question for the German expert (not me!), when are you starting Barbarossa? In May? In June?



redrum68 -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 8:30:25 PM)

I'm not an expert but I would generally start as soon as the weather clears so May or earlier (assuming you aren't trying some sort of Sea Lion or invasion Egypt).



stjeand -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 9:01:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

The Siberian reinforcements should automatically have the winterization specialty. After all, they were transferred from Siberia.


I have tried in the editor. This is not possible in the current game engine. You can't add a specialty to something inside the Deployment queue. I also would like to see this but... just not possible.

Perhaps add more specialty points by an event but again, not possible in the current editor. There is not this option. I have also think about giving a specialty to a given unit. Again, not a possible option for event. A development must be added for this.

No really, only more reserve infantry armies will do it for USSR to stop Germans.

But one question for the German expert (not me!), when are you starting Barbarossa? In May? In June?


What I think you can do is have an event that builds a unit...though not sure if you can put a specialty on it.
Not seen that ability.

I start the moment it is fully clear normally May...but I have had clear April's before.
Hadros attacked me beginning of April...it was clear in the north...then the second half of April it was clear in the south. A nearly 2 month advantage is big...then to add to that...


C O L D
This should cause half movement for not winterized armor / mech.
The Germans said the worse time was...mud then suddenly cold. Everything was frozen after sinking. Took forever to move around and the roads were destroyed.

But Cold is a clear for the Germans and in my game with svient I think I lost 10 to 15 more armies / corpos in two cold turns. So the Russians are toast.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/25/2022 9:41:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

What I think you can do is have an event that builds a unit...though not sure if you can put a specialty on it.
Not seen that ability.


Indeed, it is not there.



sveint -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 7:08:06 AM)

Well here is my feedback sadly: the Soviets are even worse in this patch. I can't see myself playing any more games.



CHINCHIN -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 7:53:16 AM)

I'm working on a mod where armor units from all countries have 1 movement point less, and Russian armor starts with 6MP, then increases 1MP with Russian OP events. Perhaps this small change will considerably improve the Russian options.

I also want to modify the naval units to be cheaper and less powerful, nobody builds naval units for their excessive price.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 12:53:04 PM)

I am working on the new list of bugs this week FYI. I took note about the overruns. I am doing some testing. There should definitely be more retreats and less overruns.



stjeand -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 1:40:37 PM)

Not sure that the overruns alone will "fix" Russia but maybe.

Problem is...each change takes months to test...and if it fails we end up in the same boat.

I wish we had a USSR test scenario that we could focus only on them for a test.
Taking 2 - 4 weeks to play just to get to the position to test is not helpful.

You can find out after 3 weeks that you messed up and now what? Test is invalid.



redrum68 -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 3:02:31 PM)

In theory, the 1941 scenario would be exactly that. Though the question then is whether the starting conditions of that scenario closely match what 1939 PvP games have on the start of Barbarossa.



stjeand -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 5:26:30 PM)

The 41 scenario is NO where near that.

The Russians have units they can not possibly have in a game that stars in 1939.
The Germans have units they can not possibly have.
Russian units are not in places anyone would put them. Germans can overrun air units but that never happens since all Russian players move them.


Plus you are stuck with what ever exists in the 41 scenario, where you could have build 10 armor rather than 20 corps and / or test any other way to play then.


I think we need a scenario that starts in July 40 giving the USSR and the Germans the PP they should have and unlimited manpower and let them build what they want for the 41 battle. Still will take time but would be faster to test.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 5:53:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Well here is my feedback sadly: the Soviets are even worse in this patch. I can't see myself playing any more games.


Please, could you add a little more details? Soviets are toasted yes but when? Did you take Leningrad, Moscow, Rostov in 1941? Or, did you win during the summer campaign of 1942 as usual in the previous patch?



stjeand -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 6:08:23 PM)

Year...1942
End of April...clear turn.
Moscow falls.
Leningrad is being evacuated because will be out of supply.
Rostov will fall in the next month.
Stalingrad will tall in June.
Soviet army is smaller than the German army.
Soviets are at 45% manpower so can not even build without making weak units.
Germany is at 99% manpower.
Got two cold / clear turns in winter of 1941 and destroyed 12 soviet units.

Soviet mistakes.
Building mountain troops. They are garbage but did not notice how bad until to late.
Though they are basically stronger they are weak defenders.
Barely filled up Logistics pool.
Turn 1 got Finland to surrender at the cost of 3 soviet corps...in my eyes worth it due to the fact that the Fins have WAY better troops.


Soviets are currently trying to hold the river east of Moscow but have half the units the Germans do so it is not possible.
Expect to be in the Urals by July.


Issues I see...

Rivers no longer do anything. Just pound the unit with air and they fold. Used to be able to hold for a few attacks.
Rail repair does not slow anything down like was hoped. Rail was still built all the way to Moscow by winter.
Russian air was...okay but I think disbanding and making more armor is till a better option for them. I do like slowing the Germans but honestly you get to fly once maybe twice and you have lost more than 50% of your air due to inteceptors...impossible to avoid them as much as you try. I guess you can suicide fighters to make the Germans use them against those but won't work for to long. Might have to try that.



Again the biggest issue is testing.
It just takes to long to get to test and you can test.



ncc1701e -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 6:35:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

Soviet army is smaller than the German army.
Soviets are at 45% manpower so can not even build without making weak units.


Yeah I have already told this here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5110101

My biggest problem is not 1941 but 1942. I would like a real Red Army to fight with and finally hold at the end of 1942. Germans have enough corps to hold all the front line from Leningrad to the Caucasus without using the minors (Italia, Romania, ...). And, USSR has barely enough armies to hold the same frontline without any possibility to have reserve to contain a breakthrough in their lines. This is my main complaint.

As for the testing, why don't you participe to the beta team?

Or alternatively, strong players may do their best hotseat game and save just before starting Barbarossa. This save game could be then used as a reference for testing any patch modification.



stjeand -> RE: Russian status after updates to supply / air (1/26/2022 7:54:02 PM)

I asked about beta was never approved so here we are.

I was pondering putting together a scenario where Germany, Italy and Russia get all the PP up till July 40 and build everything from there...
But it is a LOT of work to mess with the scenario to make it close to what a 39 - 41 would be like.
I may still do that but few if anyone appears to want to help.
NO offense to anyone just most people I have spoken to only want to play approved scenarios. Well then it will never get fixed in my eyes.
Putting in a minor change ever 2 months if it does not help you wait 2 months for the next one.
I don't blame Alvaro, he only has so much throughput.


And it is 42 now and the Russians are dead. They will be forced back to the Urals before the winter...and doubt they can hold them since their manpower is down to 40%. They don't make enough manpower to build a unit so it is clearly over. They are unable to build units due to this even receiving over 400PPs a turn.

And to be honest...they have lost a little more than they historically did...so something does not make sense.




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