RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G) vs ZOVS (R)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> After Action Reports >> RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G) vs ZOVS (R)

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RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/30/2022 11:52:45 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3

Recon South

In the south it seems that the Soviets want to play. Another Mountain Division, 2 Armor Divisions, a Cav Division, and an AT Brigade come out to play. I didn't see much if anything in the backfield. The Rough terrain I will have to scout with ZOC forwarding(inching a division forward 1 hex at a time to check ZOC). My Moto & PZ Divisions in the area have more than ample MP's.

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RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/30/2022 11:57:36 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3

Tallinn is Deliberate assaulted with Totenkoph. Soviet retreat NE to become prisoners next turn. (Lost a tank in the assault :(

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< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 1/30/2022 11:58:21 PM >

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Post #: 152

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:01:43 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3

Narva reached this turn. Will try and cross the river turn 4 if at all possible.

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Post #: 153

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:04:48 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3

Pskov

Here is Pskov at end of turn. Could not close the pocket so will have to wait until next turn to do so.

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Post #: 154

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:12:46 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3

South

Here is the South end of turn.

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Post #: 155

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:46:52 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Zovs and I have decided to remove all motorization from this game.

I have also updated to .18 (Beta version) upon the request of Zovs. That will take effect for turn 4.

Also please checkout Zovs counter AAR to this one for the Soviet side of things

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5134062

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Post #: 156

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:50:38 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3 End of Turn

Ground Losses

My total tank losses for the turn was one bringing the total to 12. ( I lost one in the attack on Tallinn) Will have to check out how many I lose in the logistics phase next turn though :(

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Post #: 157

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:52:35 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3 End of Turn

Air Losses

Lost a couple transports ferrying supplies in addition to the recon lost earlier in the turn.

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Post #: 158

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:55:37 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3 End of Turn

OOB

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Post #: 159

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:57:23 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3

End of Turn comments

Not much happening in the game at the moment. A few minor skirmishes & a few misplaced Soviets surrounded. Turn 7+ is where the real action starts to take place.

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Post #: 160

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 12:59:28 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 3 End of Turn quote

"Everyone gets the experience. Some Get the Lesson"

T S Eliot

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Post #: 161

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 2:58:51 AM

DesertedFox

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Zovs and I have decided to remove all motorization from this game.

I am not a fan of motorization especially for the Soviets in 41. However, it does seem from various AARs the Germans need some help in 41 to apply more pressure on the Russians.

Your banning of it would indicate you feel the Germans can do well in 41 without it. Is that correct?

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Post #: 162

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 3:54:28 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Zovs and I have decided to remove all motorization from this game.

I am not a fan of motorization especially for the Soviets in 41. However, it does seem from various AARs the Germans need some help in 41 to apply more pressure on the Russians.

Your banning of it would indicate you feel the Germans can do well in 41 without it. Is that correct?

I am banning it because it would destroy a good game beyond repair after execution the way I was going to execute motorization.

I have always been an advocate for motorization to "not" be in the game at all. I allowed it in this game to show just what a German could do with it. I just could not bring myself to do this to fruition in this game. So I had it banned before the game went to "sh*t" because of it, I did write about this ad nauseam in my early posts when the game came out. I personally don't feel I myself need motorization to be effective or do well in 41 at all. On top of that I am also slow playing my advance on my confidence level of what a German player can do.

Now having said this it really boils down to the skill level of the German player vs the Soviet. Knowing the rules and all the idiosyncrasies in the manual does not make a good ground commander. It is an innate ability while also this skill being learned from experience. I feel that is what is being learned by the German player at this phase of the game since with Germany, as I have always said, is about doing the most with the least.

btw Soviet can't motorize in 41 any longer, pretty sure it was taken out.

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Post #: 163

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 4:11:11 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4 Beginning Quote

"If you want it you must obtain it by Great Labor"

T S Eliot

Onward to Leningrad

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Post #: 164

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 8:52:49 AM

Stamb

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Did you manage to get recon lvl > 1 in all of those hexes where you fly it? If so - what was your settings?
I am having hard time to get recon in 50% of the hexes with 12 recon places, 1-2 strikes, area 3-4.

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Post #: 165

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 10:21:33 AM

tyronec

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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Zovs and I have decided to remove all motorization from this game.

I am not a fan of motorization especially for the Soviets in 41. However, it does seem from various AARs the Germans need some help in 41 to apply more pressure on the Russians.

Your banning of it would indicate you feel the Germans can do well in 41 without it. Is that correct?

I am banning it because it would destroy a good game beyond repair after execution the way I was going to execute motorization.

I have always been an advocate for motorization to "not" be in the game at all. I allowed it in this game to show just what a German could do with it. I just could not bring myself to do this to fruition in this game. So I had it banned before the game went to "sh*t" because of it, I did write about this ad nauseam in my early posts when the game came out. I personally don't feel I myself need motorization to be effective or do well in 41 at all. On top of that I am also slow playing my advance on my confidence level of what a German player can do.

Now having said this it really boils down to the skill level of the German player vs the Soviet. Knowing the rules and all the idiosyncrasies in the manual does not make a good ground commander. It is an innate ability while also this skill being learned from experience. I feel that is what is being learned by the German player at this phase of the game since with Germany, as I have always said, is about doing the most with the least.

btw Soviet can't motorize in 41 any longer, pretty sure it was taken out.

I would agree with this and we have done the same in our game.
The balance between the two sides is very fine during the early moves; and how far Axis can progress before the Soviet resistance stiffens has a major impact on the rest of the game. There is something of an avalanche effect, Axis make some more progress in the first few turns and it helps them a lot and damages the Soviets severely. So spending some APs and trucks to ship a few infantry divisions forwards each turn (and possibly T2 might be the best turn to do it as there is converted terrain to advance through) is going to have a major impact. I don't know how much, you would need to play out a few games with the same players to get a real grasp on it, but it doesn't feel right to me.

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Post #: 166

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 3:29:17 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Did you manage to get recon lvl > 1 in all of those hexes where you fly it? If so - what was your settings?
I am having hard time to get recon in 50% of the hexes with 12 recon places, 1-2 strikes, area 3-4.

I am only looking for counter pop of Soviet disposition at this stage of the war. Anything more than that is gravy. Why would you need more than a counter pop?

I flew those missions at 4,000 ft, 10 planes in a 2-3 hex area with 2-3 times per mission twice a week. I have revamped my recon from what I brought out in beta of flying high (18,000+ feet) to now flying low. So far I like it. BUT, i would not try this with the Soviets unless you have good experienced pilots for your recon.

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Post #: 167

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 3:35:36 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4 Beginning of Turn

This turns explanation will be pretty in depth on my freight once I get an answer back(if we get one back). I am currently waiting on confirmation of this answer in this thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5138510 to talk about my musings on supply to the front. Should be interesting & maybe some others can join in on the discussion.

With that said here is the

WEATHER!!!!

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RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 3:46:42 PM

Stamb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Did you manage to get recon lvl > 1 in all of those hexes where you fly it? If so - what was your settings?
I am having hard time to get recon in 50% of the hexes with 12 recon places, 1-2 strikes, area 3-4.

I am only looking for counter pop of Soviet disposition at this stage of the war. Anything more than that is gravy. Why would you need more than a counter pop?

I flew those missions at 4,000 ft, 10 planes in a 2-3 hex area with 2-3 times per mission twice a week. I have revamped my recon from what I brought out in beta of flying high (18,000+ feet) to now flying low. So far I like it. BUT, i would not try this with the Soviets unless you have good experienced pilots for your recon.

This is my problem. I get 0 recon in 50% of the hexes with a method that I described. I will have to practice different settings the next time I will play as an Axis. Which probably not gonna happen any time soon.

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Post #: 169

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 3:49:39 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4 Beginning of Turn

Events!!!!

I have been so focused with management of my Armor losses, replacements, blitzing to Leningrad, and surrounding units on the Rumanian Border I have forgotten to take care of my Task force Boxes. As such I have lost a VP & an AP :( My AP has dropped to 48 now from 49 and I am under my higher water mark by one :-P I sux at this game.

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Post #: 170

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 3:54:40 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4 Beginning of Turn

TB Box

Will work on getting this fixed ASAP this turn. WoW! can't believe I let this fall into disrepair. Should be easy enough to fix but I have already lost valuable turns to get units to Africa if I wanted to.

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Post #: 171

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 6:02:36 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4 Beginning of Turn

Air Phase

I am doing no GS, no GA, nor Recon. My planes will return soon enough but not needed yet for the ground war.

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Post #: 172

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 6:17:16 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4

Ground phase

I am going to go ahead and start off by talking about freight. I asked a question here in General forum https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5138510 but going to bring the discussion here to talk about it in detail. Lets start off in the South with my current freight with number "8" pressed out of Lvov. Lvov & Rzeszow are my major level 2+ rail yards(for moving freight)shown in the picture connected to my rail network. These two level 2+ rail yards may or may not have provided freight movement but not relevant at the moment. Stanislav level 2+ Railyard (lower SE Railyard) not connected to the rail network and "does not" contribute any freight moving ability.

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RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 6:21:42 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4

Ground phase

Here is the "R" button pressed in to show actual converted railroad track. Notice I do have a dual line and a single line going into Lvov and both carried freight into Lvov. The dual track line carried ~3621 rail usage and the single track carried ~1234 rail usage. Thus having multiple avenues do contribute to the total in this example.

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Post #: 174

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 6:25:43 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4

Ground phase

Lvov Freight received

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RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 6:28:33 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4

Ground Phase

And this is the previous level 2+ Railyard on the dual track before Lvov.

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Post #: 176

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 6:52:31 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Turn 4

Ground Phase

So playing devils advocate here & this is just a hypothetical scenario I am building based ONLY on these two level 2+ rail yards to move freight. The rest of the map does not exist for this example. Thus only Lvov and Rzeszow are my only movers. If we use the 30 hex radius model of level 2+ Railyard movement of frieght then freight can be moved to exactly the wide vertical black line. Meaning both level 2+ rail yards can contribute their capacity to get freight to that depot at that point.

If the model on the other hand is done by continuous rail hexes counted by rail hexes then both Lvov and Rzeszow can only get freight to the black circled depot location on the map.

You can see the difference between the two different possibilities based on how either the 30 hex radius or 30 hex continuous rail hex plays into the equation and thus why I am asking. This is just a simple example and can get very involved. But I have a theory and either I will fail at setting up what I am thinking or show a better optimization.

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RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 7:57:46 PM

Beethoven1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

The dual track line carried ~3621 rail usage and the single track carried ~1234 rail usage. Thus having multiple avenues do contribute to the total in this example.

It doesn't really contribute particularly, because the dual track line could have carried up to 6k or so, so it is not adding any extra capacity. You have unused rail capacity due to not pushing enough freight to use it all up. It is a matter of railyards more so than the double rail line in this instance.

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Post #: 178

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 8:29:39 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

The dual track line carried ~3621 rail usage and the single track carried ~1234 rail usage. Thus having multiple avenues do contribute to the total in this example.

It doesn't really contribute particularly, because the dual track line could have carried up to 6k or so, so it is not adding any extra capacity. You have unused rail capacity due to not pushing enough freight to use it all up. It is a matter of railyards more so than the double rail line in this instance.

I believe you are helping my point since I am specifically talking about level 2 rail yards, their location in relation to the 30 hex rule, thus another location taking another avenue of approach to deliver that freight to the depot in Lvov, either by dual or single track. That is why we are seeing both the dual track line and single track line used. The systems seems to know well enough to distribute the load across multiple paths but two different locations outside of each other in the 30 hex rule but within 30 hexes of Lvov can contribute to Lvov depot. Of course I can be wrong on everything but that is how I am seeing this. Here is how I see the system working, feel free to add things to this.

You have the following;

* Level 2 rail yards to move Freight (No level 2 rail yards you don't move freight)

* You have depot where freight is stored (moved by level 2 Railyard capacity)

- You have German hinderance of freight til March 42

* You have the capacity of the rail system itself

- Dual track
- Single track

(just a quick list on freight movement)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 1/31/2022 8:37:22 PM >

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Post #: 179

RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G... - 1/31/2022 8:37:21 PM

Stamb

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If we imagine that there are only 3 railyards:
Berlin, Lvov, Stalino. And Lvov is > 30 hexes from Berlin and Stalino. In that case it would not help to move freight at all if set to priority 0, thus not requesting any freight for itself?

< Message edited by Stamb -- 1/31/2022 8:38:02 PM >

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> After Action Reports >> RE: I will show you fear in a handful of dust. HLYA (G) vs ZOVS (R)