RE: Is this game good anymore?

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RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 10:26:28 AM

malyhin1517

Posts: 1426
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Also recon during air phase and inability to use it as you progress during ground phase is a step back, from my perspective.

I don't like the separate air phase at all! Although I like the new AOG system itself! But it would be better if aviation acted as before simultaneously with the ground phase.

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Sorry, i use an online translator :(

(in reply to Stamb)

Post #: 61

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 12:14:07 PM

Jeff_Ahl

Posts: 160
Joined: 10/10/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I think a lot of folks are still trying to play WITE2 like WITE1 and looking for the same results. This is understandable initially, but to play WITE2 well and get the most out of your army, whether playing as the Axis or the Soviets, you need to learn the new systems and there are quite a few. Most importantly, the CPP/Delay system for ground combat, the improved Air system and the improved Logistics system. If you expect to do well by just pushing counters forward and using 1941 Panzer Divisions as tools to grind down enemy units, you're not going to do as well as a player who learns how to do a historical blitzkrieg within the game system.

For example, Panzer Divisions in 1941 still have plenty of teeth and they can absolutely wreck Soviet divisions, but they are also easier to misuse and break than in WITE1. If you look at the various AARs, you'll see a pretty huge difference in what the most experiences Axis players can achieve vs. those that are not. They give the Axis a huge early advantage in maneuver, encirclement and breakthrough, but they are not invincible and will lose strength and capability if you treat them as a blunt instrument.

The new victory system with the campaign that includes the sudden death victory checks does a good job of addressing retreat strategies overall, though some players asked for an alternate campaign without those sudden death check and prefer to play that way. However, playing without those checks will also encourage more retreat strategies. That's considered an alternate/optional campaign.

Finally, I'd ask the original poster to come in with an open mind rather than a negative assumption.

Regards,

- Erik

I always play Sudden Death, because it is no fun doing it witouth any pressure and the game becomes unrealistic. I would like to see quite a bit of a raise for early capture though, to pressure the soviets even more in '41. I am not experienced player, but my opinion is that retreating which would have made Stalin shoot or send his generals to Gulag are conducted as the game stands today. The "hindsight" are favoring the soviet player way more than the Axis at this moment.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 62

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 12:17:07 PM

PeteJC

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2021
Status: offline

Stamb - are you sure there are no negative effects to teh Soviet player as they lose territory and have to relocate factories to the Urals? I have been playing solely as the German so I admit I know nothing about what is under the hood in regard to production. I do know that replacement of men and material seems historically accurate for the German side. Given the incredible detail in this game it seems weird that production losses would not be factored in somehow. However, I admit that this is not an aspect of the game I have looked into with any kind of depth or detail.

(in reply to Stamb)

Post #: 63

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 12:25:45 PM

Stamb

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeteJC

Stamb - are you sure there are no negative effects to teh Soviet player as they lose territory and have to relocate factories to the Urals? I have been playing solely as the German so I admit I know nothing about what is under the hood in regard to production. I do know that replacement of men and material seems historically accurate for the German side. Given the incredible detail in this game it seems weird that production losses would not be factored in somehow. However, I admit that this is not an aspect of the game I have looked into with any kind of depth or detail.

Check my test in this thread
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5132185&mpage=2&key=
post 35

yes, production of armament points went down, but it has no affect to a gun and other equipment. As it uses points from a virtual pool. And it was a test game where I move Soviets out of the way. It not gonna happen in real game. Nobody cares about armament/heavy industry/resource production.

Players care about manpower centers and airframes + tank chassis factories like Leningrad/Kharkov.

Krivoy Rog/Zaporozhye/Dnepropetrovsk/Stalino and nearby areas can be given without any affect.

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/17/2022 12:26:36 PM >

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(in reply to PeteJC)

Post #: 64

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 1:12:03 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Also recon during air phase and inability to use it as you progress during ground phase is a step back, from my perspective.

I don't like the separate air phase at all! Although I like the new AOG system itself! But it would be better if aviation acted as before simultaneously with the ground phase.

I agree there about the separate air phase.

Somehow there is a 'premade, non adaptable' aerial schedule that goes day by day.
Then you have a weekly turn for ground business.

Air Recon itself seems lackluster to me as it rarely nets adequate results (Even by pushing recon hard I never got notions of the counters besides ... a counter has been spotted and it is infantry or armour).
It has a spammable system for certain missions (WITE1 had an elegant limit to ground attack on units iirc).

In general there is no 'We did enough damage to this airfield / railyard' we can progress to the next.

It's like ... pilots return, pilots report and another run may be made.

(in reply to malyhin1517)

Post #: 65

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 1:27:05 PM

Stamb

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline

But is it a good game? Definitely it is.
Some tweaks for multiplayer and it will be almost perfect.

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(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 66

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 1:32:31 PM

PeteJC

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2021
Status: offline

I think the recon results are realistic. You can use it to get a feel for the general line of defensive. I am not too sure how much more IRL they would have gotten. Anyway, I find it invaluable playing as the German against teh AI in the Grand Campaign. I always want to know where the next teleported defensive line is and for the most part it tells me. I'd love more detail but the main thing as far as I am concerned is just getting a feel for the amount of MP I will expend before hitting the next line.

(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 67

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 1:34:53 PM

Stamb

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline

But inability to fly recon during ground phase really hurts. Maybe you want to recon 2x2 area to the left because units in front of you are way to strong for direct attack. And you can not do it. You have to scout with your soldiers.

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(in reply to PeteJC)

Post #: 68

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 3:42:20 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeteJC

I think the recon results are realistic. You can use it to get a feel for the general line of defensive. I am not too sure how much more IRL they would have gotten. Anyway, I find it invaluable playing as the German against teh AI in the Grand Campaign. I always want to know where the next teleported defensive line is and for the most part it tells me. I'd love more detail but the main thing as far as I am concerned is just getting a feel for the amount of MP I will expend before hitting the next line.

By realistic it means that air recon cannot discern if in a 10x10 KM hex there is a mass of 3 brigades or 3 corps - we may have a different idea of what is realistic!

There are recon levels and depending on recon levels acheived on the hex a player should see / understand what is in there, and have a CV shown too.

(in reply to PeteJC)

Post #: 69

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/17/2022 8:16:24 PM

PeteJC

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2021
Status: offline

If you are sending a large recon group to look at 1 hex, then I agree with you that you should get unit detail. I have never done that. I will try it sometime on interdict and unit settings and see what happens. If all it gives back is a generic unit symbol, then I would agree that there should be more. Not too sure CV should be included as I believe there are intangibles like CPP, morale and training/experience that factor into that number and that would not be observed recon flights. Even supply status/levels would be difficult to definitively discern.

My recon is typically done with a radius of 3-8 hexes, and I usually get enough back to see the general outline of the defensive front, so I am happy enough.

(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 70

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/18/2022 3:27:49 AM

CarstenJansing

Posts: 3
Joined: 6/17/2021
Status: offline

great game

(in reply to RedJohn)

Post #: 71

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/18/2022 7:26:21 AM

DarkHorse2

Posts: 77
Joined: 2/4/2022
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkHorse2
But despite all of the gaslighting to the contrary, no.

Personal attacks are against the forum rules. Who exactly are you accusing of gaslighting (lying)?

Regards,

- Erik

Comical.

Wasn't accusing anyone really, other than the coercive nature of this forum. To name someone would have been personal, don't you think?

Dare I say you would have been so quick to take offense had I said instead - 'But despite all of the gaslighting to the contrary, the game is truly awesome?'

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 72

RE: Is this game good anymore? - 2/18/2022 4:55:36 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkHorse2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkHorse2
But despite all of the gaslighting to the contrary, no.

Personal attacks are against the forum rules. Who exactly are you accusing of gaslighting (lying)?

Regards,

- Erik

Comical.

Wasn't accusing anyone really, other than the coercive nature of this forum. To name someone would have been personal, don't you think?

Dare I say you would have been so quick to take offense had I said instead - 'But despite all of the gaslighting to the contrary, the game is truly awesome?'

This is a thread where folks chimed in on both the positives and the negatives. You characterized those who disagree with you as "gaslighting" which is effectively lying and is a personal attack though aimed at multiple other posters. I gave you a chance to get out of that and perhaps even apologize, but instead you responded by calling me comical and questioning my judgement and sense of fairness.

The forum is not coercive, but it does have rules and you agreed to those when you registered an account here. This is not about my taking offense, it's about you seeking to offend. Constructive criticism is fine. Personal attacks and assuming bad faith on the part of others is not.

Your account is only two weeks old, so I was thinking you may be new, but your comments about the forum suggest that maybe this is just a new account for a previous poster.

This is an official warning. Keep your posts civil, or the next step will be a ban.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 2/18/2022 4:56:47 PM >

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC